Custom Warlock Punch

[PowerUp]

I propose the following buff to Falcon Punch/Warlock Punch:

Any time two of these attacks clash with each other, the entire screen is rocked by an explosion that is roughly as powerful as a bob-omb. Clashing fighters are also affected.

 

[Bent 00]

Time for another update! I didn't think that my last custom version of Warlock Punch was that overpowered, but Glyph made a good argument against it via a PM, and I still want to make an improved version of the Punch that everyone likes.

Basically, no more Cancels; the only change from 3.5 is that Warlock Punch and Gandouken are usable offstage without suiciding now!

Grounded Warlock Punch
- Reverted back to Minus 3.5.
The Cancel has been removed once again, since that seemed to be the main thing those opposed to my changes didn't like. Ganondorf loses his mixup game and the ability to fake out his foes, but at least he gets his full-power 666% O.H.K.O. back.

Grounded Gandouken
- Unchanged from Minus 3.5.

Aerial ("Flying") Warlock Punch
- No longer Cancellable.
- Damage reverted to 666 from 66.
- Knockback Growth reverted to 100 from 50.
- Flub hitboxes after strong hitbox remain. 20 damage, 10 Base Knockback, 100 Knockback Growth.
- Momentum unchanged from WPC v1.0.
Flying Warlock Punch is remains a versatile, powerful offstage move instead of a guaranteed suicide. Ganondorf pops up and forward a bit now; you can use this offstage to approach and recover. If you reverse the Warlock Punch, 'Dorf will pop up and forward at a higher velocity. It can't be Cancelled anymore, but it's still safe to attempt a Flying Warlock Punch. Try to catch your foe in a Gandouken, then follow up with a Punch! 'Dorf will be able to make it back to the stage with little trouble.

Aerial Gandouken
- No longer Cancellable
- Momentum changed from WPC 1.0: Vertical Velocity decreased, Horizontal Velocity decreased.
No longer a guaranteed suicide move, Gandouken can be safely used offstage to catch airborne opponents. Ganondorf cannot Cancel the move anymore, but he can still make it back to the stage after using it offstage. 'Dorf can't follow up with his aerials nearly as well as he could in CWP v1.0, but he can still combo into Dark Dive. It's risky though!

This time around, my focus was just making the offstage Warlock Punch a useful, fun move, instead of a guaranteed suicide that isn't even likely to K.O.. Once again, I believe these tweaks make Ganondorf better without making him too overpowered.

I haven't had the chance to try out this new set of changes against human opponents yet, so consider this a work-in-progress. If this interests you, please help me test it and post your feedback here. I'm willing to make further tweaks to keep the move fair. I'm satisfied with it as-is, though.

Download link: Safe Flying Warlock Punch v1.0

This works in Brawl- 3.5 and 3.Q.

 

[Bashdemears]

Nothing in that changelog intrests me as flying warlock punches dont make sense and there is no reason to have them. Who are you playing against that actually gets faked out by the cancel? I see warlock punch coming, I get the fuck outta doge. I see one coming in the air? I get the fuck outta doge. Always. I have to worry less about either situation if I have a projectile.

 

[Glyph]

Sounds much more interesting now, I'll give it a shot when I get home tonight

 

[Bent 00]

Sounds much more interesting now, I'll give it a shot when I get home tonight

Thanks, let me know what you think of it.

 

[Glyph]

Just tried it out, and I must not be using it right. It grants a ton of movement when you use it, but it also pushes you so far out from the stage that your double jump and up-b aren't enough to let you recover.

 

[NEWB]

Maybe you have to reverse it?

 

[Bent 00]

Hmm, I hope I didn't upload the wrong version... I'll look into this in the morning.

 

[Bent 00]

Just tried it out, and I must not be using it right. It grants a ton of movement when you use it, but it also pushes you so far out from the stage that your double jump and up-b aren't enough to let you recover.

I just downloaded the last FitGanon.pac I posted (SFWP v1.0), and it's the correct version; you're not using it right, or something else in your build is interfering with it. Please try it in vanilla 3.5 if you aren't already.

With my changes, 'Dorf should be able to make it back to the ledge after any Flying Warlock Punch, provided he starts it right after jumping and doesn't try anything too fancy in the air afterward.

 

[Bent 00]

Anyone else tried SFWP v1.0 yet? Is the tweaked aerial Warlock Punch / Gandouken something you'd like to see in official Minus?

 

[Darxmarx]

I tried the SFWP. Although I rarely use Ganon, which means my insight might not be the best, I might as well say something.

The Warlock Punch itself is rather interesting. Although it was pretty situational in my matches, I managed to get a few hits. My friends didn't, but they didn't die by falling below the blast line after using it. We didn't use the Gandouken in the air at all, but you might as well leave the small leap with it to match its punch counterpart.

Since it seems that not many people use the Warlock Punch / Gandouken in the air, and there are better things Ganon could do offstage, it isn't completely necessary for it to be part of the official Minus build. However, I believe the SFWP is more useful than the official aerial Warlock Punch.
Because of this reason, I'm perfectly fine with its existence.

 

[Bent 00]

I tried the SFWP. Although I rarely use Ganon, which means my insight might not be the best, I might as well say something.

Thanks for trying it out, and for your feedback.

The Warlock Punch itself is rather interesting. Although it was pretty situational in my matches, I managed to get a few hits. My friends didn't, but they didn't die by falling below the blast line after using it. We didn't use the Gandouken in the air at all, but you might as well leave the small leap with it to match its punch counterpart.

Yeah, the Safe Flying Warlock Punch is very situational, and is not the most practical option 'Dorf has against offstage foes -- but, like the Falcon Punch, it's the most awesome way to K.O. your opponent. Those flub hitboxes are often lethal offstage, as well, since the target is already close to the blast zone.

Side note: Safe Flying Warlock Punch pops 'Dorf up and forward a bit. Safe Flying Gandouken just halts his downward momentum enough for 'Dorf to be able to recover afterwards.

Since it seems that not many people use the Warlock Punch / Gandouken in the air, and there are better things Ganon could do offstage, it isn't completely necessary for it to be part of the official Minus build. However, I believe the SFWP is more useful than the official aerial Warlock Punch.
Because of this reason, I'm perfectly fine with its existence.

I'm hoping this tweak will catch on and make Flying W.P.s and Gandoukens valid options for 'Dorf.

It's not hard to be more useful than the suicidal 3.5 default Flying Warlock Punch / Gandouken...

Has anyone else spent some time with SFWP v1.0? NEWB? Doqtor Kirby? Glyph?

 

[The Concept]

Like I told you before, I'd try out what you made. I'm here to collect. I'll be working on custom build this week. I'll put it in and see what happens.

 

[Bent 00]

I tested Safe Flying Warlock Punch v1.0 with friends for a few hours today. To me, it felt fair and balanced, and still effective. Aerial Warlock Punches landed flew often! I estimate that 10% hit with the OHKO hitbox, 40% hit with the flub hitboxes, and 50% missed. Offstage Gandoukens claimed no victims, but hardly any were fired. Human players dodge Gandoukens pretty easily.

My friends were sad to see the Cancel removed, and plan to keep using the first W.P. mod I made. Even the non-'Dorf mains thought that version was the best Minus Ganondorf yet.

If anyone else would like to try out either of my two Warlock Punch tweaks, I'd appreciate you feedback.

 

[Thor]

I take no issue with any Warlock Punch buffs - again, I see no issue with the original, fully-cancellable one [even if it ignores shields too] (I never had issues with it, using it or fighting it), so I'm hopeful that something will be produced that will be satisfactory to all (since the status quo is unsatisfactory for Bent 00 and many others hate the cancel).

Haven't tried any of the mods here though because laziness.

 

[Bent 00]

FYI: Both of the 3.5 Warlock Punch tweaks I've posted work in Minus 3.Q too.

Just be sure you use both the FitGanon.pac and the FitGanonMotionEtc file.

 

[Bent_00]

Just tried it out, and I must not be using it right.

Maybe you have to reverse it?

Like I told you before, I'd try out what you made.

Haven't tried any of the mods here though because laziness.

I'm still listening out for your feedback, if you have any. Both tweaks still work in 3.Q.

 

[The Concept]

I'm working on the custom build as we speak. I'll download now.

 

[Thor]

Like I said, I don't care if the fully-cancellable, shield-piercing mode made it in (as long as it doesn't cause fully cancellable Gandouken - I'm sorry but that would probs combo into Warlock Punch, and even though that's obviously escapable via SDI, it certainly makes followups with fair WAY too easy). If you want me to test and advocate for your mods, I can, but I'm just mainly curious which is why I poke around in here - I don't actually use these because I'm currently only able to play with super-casual people who find the idea of an OHKO attack silly as is, so a cancel would probably just piss them off.

 

[Bent_00]

If you want me to test and advocate for your mods, I can, but I'm just mainly curious which is why I poke around in here - I don't actually use these because I'm currently only able to play with super-casual people who find the idea of an OHKO attack silly as is, so a cancel would probably just piss them off.

Please try out the "Safe Flying Warlock Punch" tweak. It has NO cancels added at all. It just makes Warlock Punch and Gandouken usable offstage without suiciding.

The "Cancellable Warlock Punch" tweak obviously has cancels (not on Gandouken), but it is not a O.H.K.O. at low percents anymore. It's more fun IMO, but I doubt W.P. will ever be officially cancellable again.

 

[Pin Clock]

Bent this is getting absurd. People can see it and play it if they'd like to check it out in your signature. You don't have to advertise it everywhere like it's a religion or a political movement.

Your ban was for three days for advertising this a million times over in every thread that so much as mentioned Ganondorf, yet you make an alternate account and keep advertising it anyways. Should you make another one, your ban on your main account WILL BE EXTENDED.

Warlock Punch will never be fully cancellable in the extent that it originally was again, due to the original reason of the design being gone and the fact that no one should get a get out of jail free card for whiffing what is either an OHKO move or their most powerful kill move, regardless of its long start-up. It also added nothing to the game against those who knew the cancel was there; they'd only try to smack you out of it if they knew they could within the given time frame. Otherwise they wouldn't bother going to a place where Ganon would hit them.

 

[Thor]

Warlock Punch will never be fully cancellable in the extent that it originally was again, due to the original reason of the design being gone and the fact that no one should get a get out of jail free card for whiffing what is either an OHKO move or their most powerful kill move, regardless of its long start-up. It also added nothing to the game against those who knew the cancel was there; they'd only try to smack you out of it if they knew they could within the given time frame. Otherwise they wouldn't bother going to a place where Ganon would hit them.

If my opponent is going to do something that is longer than some taunts (WAY longer since some taunts (Kirby, Sonic) are now cancellable) there's not a problem with a "get out of jail free" card. Honestly, when I see someone Warlock Punching, I think 2 things. 1.) WHEW! Instead of going for forward air or a real punish they're going for disrespect, and I'm not gonna fall for it. Thanks for the escape and free damage, sucker! 2.) LOL might as well have put a sign on your back saying "Kick me!" (or something of that nature). I thought this when the cancel existed, and doubly so now.

And if it really added NOTHING to the game [everyone knows about the cancel after one or two incidents], then there's LITERALLY ZERO reason not to add it back - it would quiet Bent 00 and others who want the cancel back, and it would add NOTHING to the game therefore being of no detriment to everyone. Literally everyone wins because this thread is no longer a thing for the people who don't like it, and people who want a cancel/safe flying warlock punch get what they wanted. So how's about you just add the cancel back in and we call it a day, hm?

"The fact that no should get a get out of jail free card for whiffing what is either an OHKO move or their most powerful kill move"

There's a balancing mechanism here:

"it's long startup"

And also, yeah they should get one - it's Minus, and that would be Minusy. It also isn't even get out of jail free, unlike you and the others like to pretend - it's actually "make your opponent have to be ever so slightly more precise if they want to punish you" card - let me tell you, when someone's raining down a dair while he's still winding back, Ganondorf's not getting off easily, not in the slightest.

But unpopular thing will remain unpopular, so I know this isn't going to change people's jaded opinions...

 

[Bent 00]

Warlock Punch will never be fully cancellable in the extent that it originally was again, due to the original reason of the design being gone and the fact that no one should get a get out of jail free card for whiffing what is either an OHKO move or their most powerful kill move, regardless of its long start-up. It also added nothing to the game against those who knew the cancel was there; they'd only try to smack you out of it if they knew they could within the given time frame. Otherwise they wouldn't bother going to a place where Ganon would hit them.

No cancels allowed means my "C.W.P." tweak will never be officially adopted, but what about my "Safe Flying Warlock Punch" tweak? It doesn't add any cancels or change grounded W.P. and Gandouken at all. Only the aerial versions of those two moves have their momentum changed, so that they become useful offstage options instead of dumb suicide moves.

I've asked in various places several times now, but I don't recall getting a clear answer: Did anyone on the dev team try the "Safe Flying Warlock Punch" tweak? I made that one as a compromise to suit the requirements of everyone who was against the cancel returning to W.P.. If you would just try it, I doubt you would find it to be overpowered or bad in any way.

 

[Bent 00]

Thank you for your support, Thor.

Just tried it out, and I must not be using it right.

Maybe you have to reverse it?

I'm working on the custom build as we speak. I'll download now.

I don't, but I know someone who does: A7-x Ns. Jigglypuff.

Do any of you five have any more feedback regarding the "Safe Flying Warlock Punch" tweak?

It's much more balanced than the first tweak, the CWP. Please give it a chance if you haven't already.

A fitting thread for my 666th post!

 

[Bent 00]

Here's some verse to promote my "Safe Flying Warlock Punch v1.0" tweak.

"Captain Falcon's Bliss"

A Knee of Justice
Into Flying Falcon Punch
The Sacred Combo

"Ganondorf Strikes Back"

Captain Falcon loves to Punch,
Especially offstage!
Now I can't safely do the same...
It makes me seethe with rage

I got a taste of his joy:
My own fearsome flying fist,
How I laughed when it hit!
Now I would die if I missed

I have an on-hit Cancel,
But that's just a cruel joke;
It is much more practical
To F-Air, Wiz Kick, or Choke

Those moves are each impressive,
But they lack majesty and style
My Flying Warlock Punch was bold,
Terrific, amazing, and vile!

The Sages sealed my Signature move,
Now it's near-useless in the Light
Only in the Dark World
Can I still revel in its might

How do I reclaim my former glory?
I have a horrible hunch...
I'll tweak my technique, and call it
"Safe Flying Warlock Punch"

Instead of dropping like a rock,
I won't be self-destructive;
Rising momentum and flub hitboxes
Will be much more disruptive!

Captain Falcon, step aside,
The King of Evil can PAWNCH too;
I will rule the air with flaming fists
At least as well as you!