This thread started out as a way to get the Warlock Punch Cancel back. However, once that was accomplished (for unofficial use), I made a couple of other versions of W.P. that are more balanced. Rather than leave the original, outdated post up top, I'm going to list my officially released mods here, for the convenience of anyone interested. Here they are, in order of release; from oldest to newest: Spoiler: Cancellable Warlock Punch v1.0 I have made some interesting changes to 3.5 'Dorf: Grounded Warlock Punch - Warlock Punch is now Cancellable into anything immediately after the hitbox comes out. - Damage reduced from 666 to 66. - Knockback Growth reduced from 100 to 50. Warlock Punch remains a very deadly move, but non-lightweight characters with low damage can survive it now. The move is still punishable, but not ridiculously so; either catch Ganondorf as he's winding up the Punch, or predict what he Cancels into and punish that. Grounded Gandouken - Unchanged from Minus 3.5. Aerial ("Flying") Warlock Punch - Now Cancellable into anything immediately after the hitbox comes out. - Damage reduced from 666 to 66. - Knockback Growth reduced from 100 to 50. - Flub hitboxes added after strong hitbox. 10 damage, 10 Base Knockback, 100 Knockback Growth. - Momentum changed: Vertical Velocity increased, Horizontal Velocity decreased. Flying Warlock Punch is now a versatile, powerful offstage move instead of a guaranteed suicide. Ganondorf pops up and forward a bit now; you can use this offstage to approach and recover. If you reverse the Warlock Punch, 'Dorf will pop up and forward at a higher velocity -- try Cancelling the Punch into an aerial immediately for a big leap! Aerial Gandouken - Now Cancellable at Frame 100 No longer a guaranteed suicide move, Gandouken can be safely used offstage to catch airborne opponents. Ganondorf can jump out of the move, follow up with an aerial, and still return to the stage. Cancelled Flame Choke and Dark Dive are especially stylish followups. I believe these tweaks make Ganondorf better without making him too overpowered. The new aerial Warlock Punch physics have changed the move from something you'd never want to use into something awesome that you'll use often. The Warlock Punch Cancel gives 'Dorf some much-needed flexibility, offstage mobility, and the ability to fake out his foes. Download link: Cancellable Warlock Punch v1.0 This works in Brawl- 3.5 and 3.Q. Spoiler: Safe Flying Warlock Punch v1.0 I didn't think that my last custom version of Warlock Punch was that overpowered, but Glyph made a good argument against it via a PM, and I still want to make an improved version of the Punch that everyone likes. Basically, no more Cancels; the only change from 3.5 is that Warlock Punch and Gandouken are usable offstage without suiciding now! Grounded Warlock Punch - Reverted back to Minus 3.5. The Cancel has been removed once again, since that seemed to be the main thing those opposed to my changes didn't like. Ganondorf loses his mixup game and the ability to fake out his foes, but at least he gets his full-power 666% O.H.K.O. back. Grounded Gandouken - Unchanged from Minus 3.5. Aerial ("Flying") Warlock Punch - No longer Cancellable. - Damage reverted to 666 from 66. - Knockback Growth reverted to 100 from 50. - Flub hitboxes after strong hitbox remain. 20 damage, 10 Base Knockback, 100 Knockback Growth. - Momentum unchanged from WPC v1.0. Flying Warlock Punch remains a versatile, powerful offstage move instead of a guaranteed suicide. Ganondorf pops up and forward a bit now; you can use this offstage to approach and recover. If you reverse the Warlock Punch, 'Dorf will pop up and forward at a higher velocity. It can't be Cancelled anymore, but it's still safe to attempt a Flying Warlock Punch. Try to catch your foe in a Gandouken, then follow up with a Punch! 'Dorf will be able to make it back to the stage with little trouble. Aerial Gandouken - No longer Cancellable - Momentum changed from WPC 1.0: Vertical Velocity decreased, Horizontal Velocity decreased. No longer a guaranteed suicide move, Gandouken can be safely used offstage to catch airborne opponents. Ganondorf cannot Cancel the move anymore, but he can still make it back to the stage after using it offstage. 'Dorf can't follow up with his aerials nearly as well as he could in CWP v1.0, but he can still combo into Dark Dive. It's risky though! This time around, my focus was just making the offstage Warlock Punch a useful, fun move, instead of a guaranteed suicide that isn't even likely to K.O.. Once again, I believe these tweaks make Ganondorf better without making him too overpowered. Download link: Safe Flying Warlock Punch v1.0 This works in Brawl- 3.5 and 3.Q. Spoiler: Safe Offstage Warlock Punch v0.5b and v0.7b This is a mod of the Ganondorf from Kien's Custom Build -- which is what's going into 4.0 AFAIK -- with only the following changes: - Warlock Punch and Gandouken are no longer suicidal offstage. This was achieved by increasing vertical momentum to 1.5 from 0 - Added 5% damage-based armor to Neutral B, active frames 2-72 (there is a version without this) That's about as minimal as it gets. Ganondorf doesn't drop to his doom like a dumb rock whenever he goes for an Offstage Warlock Punch. The momentum boost was toned way down from what it was in SFWP; 'Dorf merely stalls in the air as he Punches now, instead of Flying upwards and forwards. The Flub Hitboxes are gone too. Only the 2-frame 666% O.H.K.O. remains. Download link: Safe Offstage Warlock Punch v0.5b ================ SOWP v0.7b UPDATE ================ At Kienamaru's suggestion, I've made a small update that boosts Ganondorf's damage-based armor on Warlock Punch from 5% to 7%. The SOWPv0.5b files are also included for comparison. Download link: Safe Offstage Warlock Punch v0.7b These both work in Brawl- 3.Q. Keep in mind that these are for unofficial use only. The Brawl Minus developers have decided they do not like the idea of Warlock Punch being safe to use offstage, and they do not want to see any advocation for it being included in an official build. Don't even talk about it outside of this thread, or you're asking for trouble. :/ Feel free to discuss it (for private use) in here, though! Please ignore the poll. Spoiler: original (outdated) post Devs: I know you're against this, so I'm NOT asking you to bring back Warlock Punch's Cancel in the next version of Minus here. This thread is for making a custom offshoot of 3.5 Ganondorf for use by my local group and anyone else who misses the Cancel. Our 'Dorf mains like the Warlock Punch Cancel (W.P.C.) too much to give it up. I'd like some feedback on which version of the W.P.C. should be used, out of these options: I.) Complex: Both versions of W.P. available via different timing of "B" II.) Simple: Trade Uncancellable O.H.K.O. for Cancellable vBrawl Warlock Punch III.) Taunt-Switched Modes: Side Taunt switches between Cancellable vBrawl W.P. and U.C. O.H.K.O. IV.) Taunt Power Up: Cancellable vBrawl W.P. is default; Side Taunt switches to U.C. O.H.K.O. for one use. V.) Taunt Power Down: U.C. O.H.K.O. is default; Side Taunt makes next W.P. Cancellable vBrawl W.P. VI.) Taunt Gives Cancel: U.C. OH.K.O. is default; Side Taunt makes the next O.H.K.O. W.P. Cancellable VII.) Aerial Cancel Only: Grounded O.H.K.O. remains U.C., aerial O.H.K.O. Cancellable as it was in MAX 1.01 VIII.) Taunt-Switched Modes EX: Default Cancellable W.P. stuns, has medium damage, low knockback. Side Taunt switches to Uncancellable O.H.K.O. mode. General Notes: - All versions ignore shields, and are not reflectable by them. - All versions retain the Gandouken projectile option, which is never Cancellable. - In all Cancellable versions of Aerial Warlock Punch, the Cancel window is the same as it was in MAX 1.01. - In all Cancellable versions of Grounded Warlock Punch, the Cancel window opens a few frames later in the move than it did in MAX 1.01 -- just enough so that an opponent who sidestep dodges the Punch has enough time to grab 'Dorf before he can react. Detailed explanations of each version: Spoiler: I.) Complex Two versions of Warlock Punch in one, plus Gandouken 1.) Hold B: Uncancellable O.H.K.O. version. Instakill, but much more punishable. 2.) Tap B: Cancellable version, but much weaker (vBrawl damage and knockback). Gandouken: Tap B (LET GO OF B), then have B held when the W.P. fires; Uncancellable O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch will only trigger if B is held the ENTIRE windup time. The two could be differentiated by graphics (faint purple flashing on full-power version, perhaps) and/or SFX (different voice clips, etc.). Spoiler: II.) Simple Warlock Punch becomes Cancellable once again, but it now deals vBrawl levels of damage and knockback. Ganondorf no longer has a guaranteed O.H.K.O. move. Spoiler: III.) Taunt-Switched Modes Side Taunt switches between default Cancellable vBrawl-strength Warlock Punch and Uncancellable O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch. Spoiler: IV.) Taunt Power Up Cancellable vBrawl-strength Warlock Punch is default; Side Taunt switches to Uncancellable O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch for one use. Spoiler: V.) Taunt Power Down Uncancellable O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch is default; Side Taunt switches to Cancellable vBrawl-strength Warlock Punch for one use. Spoiler: VI.) Taunt Gives Cancel Uncancellable O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch is default; Side Taunt makes the next O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch Cancellable, like it was in MAX 1.01 (except it ignores shields now). Spoiler: VII.) Aerial Cancel Only Grounded O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch remains Uncancellable, while Aerial O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch regains its MAX 1.01 Cancel. Spoiler: VIII.) Taunt-Switched Modes EX Default Cancellable Warlock Punch is no longer a kill move; it sets up other moves instead. It retains the same animation and hitbox, but it now deals only moderate (I'm thinking 15-20%) damage, and it stuns victims for about 2 seconds (like Ike's No Sympathy Mode Counter did in MAX 1.01) instead of launching them far away. While his foe is stunned, Ganondorf can follow up with any move except Up Tilt or another Warlock Punch; the stun effect will wear off of the opponent before those moves can complete. If Ganondorf lets the stun effect wear off, the opponent will be popped up in the air a short distance. This distance is constant; it does not change based on damage. The victim can influence his or her trajectory with D.I., but Ganondorf can follow up with an aerial attack if he predicts this. If two Ganondorf players coordinate perfectly, they can team up and keep using this version of Cancellable Warlock Punch to keep a single opponent locked in stun while piling on damage. Side Taunt switches to Uncancellable O.H.K.O. Warlock Punch mode and back. Version VIII is my newest idea for bringing back the W.P.C., and I really like the sound of it. I also like Versions I, III, and IV a lot. Please vote for which ones you like the best, and post feedback. If you'd like to help bring back the W.P.C., let me know -- I currently know very little of PSA, so your assistance would be appreciated. If you're against bringing back the W.P.C., this isn't the place to say so. Reasons why I want the W.P.C. to return? Read this thread. I want it to return because it allowed Ganondorf to do several things he can't do without it... Bait & Punish Playstyle and Mixup Tool Flying Warlock Punch It's impractical, and very obvious, but it's fun and very satisfying to land. The cancel allowed Ganondorf to survive and return to the stage; without it, the F.W.P. is always a guaranteed suicide move. This issue could be fixed by itself simply by giving only the aerial version of W.P. its cancel back. This would not bring 'Dorf getting reflected by shields back into the game; the aerial W.P. never had that problem. NOTICE: This is not for discussing the Warlock Punch Cancel for official versions of Brawl Minus, just this custom build.