Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
I'm unfamiliar with Crusade. Which attributes in particular do you like about Crusade 'Dorf, that Minus 'Dorf lacks?
Custom Warlock Punch
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Mawootad
Minus Backroom
Falcon punch momentum is probably controlled by some variable in the article floating points, or if you're really SOL in section 4 of the module. Or possibly it's just a momentum code in the PSA. The only way to know for certain is to check if it's already documented and if it's not do the research yourself.
Basically. Except I have no idea what that instruction actually is or does.
Hm. Well let's run this down real quick:
- He has a projectile. No not some Gandouken hackjob; an actual projectile.
- He uses his sword more.
- Flame Choke is a combo move, not a techchase move, and a kill move at higher percents.
- Zeus up-smash.
- WP is F-smash, not n-b. It's also a OHKO (but not 666, but we can alleviate this
)or just watch a gameplay video:
not mine, and i'd prolly do better
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
To answer a question from another topic:
Unfortunately, the Minus devs want WP to remain the SIX-SIX-SIX MEME MOVE because it's so funny and iconic.
At least it sounds like the devs are considering bringing back the original Energy Ball Gandouken. That's a step in the right direction IMO.
I left out WP because I don't think 'Dorf's Neutral B should be a OHKO. Imagine how good it could be if it didn't have to pay the price for killing in a single blow. Look at how Project M handled it: They moved the super-strong hit to Ganondorf's Down Taunt, and made Neutral B into Cape/Float, which made 'Dorf MUCH better thanks to having a Neutral B that's actually worth using.
Unfortunately, the Minus devs want WP to remain the SIX-SIX-SIX MEME MOVE because it's so funny and iconic.
I still say that -- in Custom builds -- at the very least, the 666% Warlock Punch should be replaced with a more useful, versatile Neutral B that better represents Ganondorf's character. Project M embraced the change, why can't we? Make the OHKO WP a secret taunt if it's so essential.
It is simply stating an opinion of the way things currently are, and proposing how a Custom build could improve them.
But now that we're trying to balance for a more competitive, less over-the-top metagame, it's a fine time to reconsider that stance (for Custom builds). What I said back then still applies...Mawootad said:
Bent 00 said:
Disclaimer: This post is not advocating for the official Minus Ganondorf to be changed in any way.Bent 00 said:
It is simply stating an opinion of the way things currently are, and proposing how a Custom build could improve them.
At least it sounds like the devs are considering bringing back the original Energy Ball Gandouken. That's a step in the right direction IMO.
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Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
To continue a conversation from another topic:
You think they would want to highlight a character and move that took a lot of creativity, style, and talent to create, but no -- they focus on the most uncreative, heavy-handed change of all. Minus is all about Breaking Limits, but the 666% OHKO WP is an example of Breaking said Limits to an absolutely ridiculous (yet lazy) degree. All other changes have been mostly reasonable, but that one threw logic out the window. And yet it's the one immutable feature of Minus that will never change officially... Mainly due to the fact it's so closely associated with Minus, because it's been in the game since the early days.
Some traditions, no matter how revered they may be, deserve to die for the greater good. Thus, the need for threads like this one.
Agreed. Why Warlock Punch is the prime example of Minus changes... That's one of the biggest mysteries in Minus.
You think they would want to highlight a character and move that took a lot of creativity, style, and talent to create, but no -- they focus on the most uncreative, heavy-handed change of all. Minus is all about Breaking Limits, but the 666% OHKO WP is an example of Breaking said Limits to an absolutely ridiculous (yet lazy) degree. All other changes have been mostly reasonable, but that one threw logic out the window. And yet it's the one immutable feature of Minus that will never change officially... Mainly due to the fact it's so closely associated with Minus, because it's been in the game since the early days.
Some traditions, no matter how revered they may be, deserve to die for the greater good. Thus, the need for threads like this one.
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Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
Posting my full thoughts about "Elliot's 666% Challenge" here, since it's not safe to diss OHKO WP anywhere else:
This reminds me of "Falcon Punch Day" way back. Many people on vBrawl WiFi would only use Falcon Punch for a day.
It was fun for a few matches, but it got old quick.
I don't get why some people love a slow OHKO so much. I find such unreliable moves obnoxious now... 666% WP is just a big, silly meme.
Think about it. New players think it's humorous for a while, but they either get better or stay at the same skill level, right?
The scrubs who don't improve either use it too much because it's soo funny, or get rustled at how they keep getting hit by that cheap OHKO.
The players who become competitive realize how useless the move is, and only use it in rare, safe instances. They don't spam it against foes they respect because A.) they're going to miss and get punished 99% of the time, and B.) it's too disrespectful.
So who is OHKO WP actually for? New players, meme-lovers, and people who love silly things. Certainly not for serious players.
I want to see (Custom) Minus grow up, instead of settling for mediocrity and memes. All moves should be useful. Disrespectful OHKO moves that almost never hit should only exist as secret taunts.
Anyhow... I'd like to continue tweaking Warlock Punch, to make it actually useful, but I have no access to the new 4.0f environment or 4.0f 'Dorf to test with. :/
This reminds me of "Falcon Punch Day" way back. Many people on vBrawl WiFi would only use Falcon Punch for a day.
It was fun for a few matches, but it got old quick.
I don't get why some people love a slow OHKO so much. I find such unreliable moves obnoxious now... 666% WP is just a big, silly meme.
Think about it. New players think it's humorous for a while, but they either get better or stay at the same skill level, right?
The scrubs who don't improve either use it too much because it's soo funny, or get rustled at how they keep getting hit by that cheap OHKO.
The players who become competitive realize how useless the move is, and only use it in rare, safe instances. They don't spam it against foes they respect because A.) they're going to miss and get punished 99% of the time, and B.) it's too disrespectful.
So who is OHKO WP actually for? New players, meme-lovers, and people who love silly things. Certainly not for serious players.
I want to see (Custom) Minus grow up, instead of settling for mediocrity and memes. All moves should be useful. Disrespectful OHKO moves that almost never hit should only exist as secret taunts.
Anyhow... I'd like to continue tweaking Warlock Punch, to make it actually useful, but I have no access to the new 4.0f environment or 4.0f 'Dorf to test with. :/
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Bent, please know that your opinion has been heard on countless occasions. We all know what you think, but there is a point where all the reposting, double posting, using this thread as a personal safe haven to constantly write about Warlock Punch rather than discussing customs, a similar thing you did with Princess Luigi when he was revealed, and it just comes to a point where enough is enough.
I'm sorry, Bent_00, but your account is now permanently banned. Through multiple bannings and a baker's dozen of warnings in just the past year, we wanted you to understand that you got your point across, which is well, but your tone and manner and constant obsession with it is simply not the way to go about it. We valued your experiences and thoughts as a very experienced member of the Brawl Minus forums, but your absolute lack of respect for both the dev team and forum conduct has ultimately lead us to make this decision.
To everyone concerned about the Warlock Punch: You are allowed to discuss this move as you would any other move in any part of the forums. The reason why this stigma existed about feeling unable to post about it, as well as openly discouraging discussion of the move, was because of a fear of Bent derailing the thread into the same old tired Warlock Punch discussion and the same arguments again and again. But despite our fears and discouraging, discussing the move was never not allowed.
To Bent, we wish you the best of luck in the future. You're vocal and passionate, and these are very good traits to have. I believe if you can shift your energy and debating methods from aggressive to assertive, as well as be more open and accepting of the thoughts and opinions of others, you will go far in your new life outside of these forums. Best of luck, Bent.
Also, I will be locking this thread, for obvious reasons.
I'm sorry, Bent_00, but your account is now permanently banned. Through multiple bannings and a baker's dozen of warnings in just the past year, we wanted you to understand that you got your point across, which is well, but your tone and manner and constant obsession with it is simply not the way to go about it. We valued your experiences and thoughts as a very experienced member of the Brawl Minus forums, but your absolute lack of respect for both the dev team and forum conduct has ultimately lead us to make this decision.
To everyone concerned about the Warlock Punch: You are allowed to discuss this move as you would any other move in any part of the forums. The reason why this stigma existed about feeling unable to post about it, as well as openly discouraging discussion of the move, was because of a fear of Bent derailing the thread into the same old tired Warlock Punch discussion and the same arguments again and again. But despite our fears and discouraging, discussing the move was never not allowed.
To Bent, we wish you the best of luck in the future. You're vocal and passionate, and these are very good traits to have. I believe if you can shift your energy and debating methods from aggressive to assertive, as well as be more open and accepting of the thoughts and opinions of others, you will go far in your new life outside of these forums. Best of luck, Bent.
Also, I will be locking this thread, for obvious reasons.
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