Brawl Minus 4.0b is here!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Pin Clock, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Cute? Now I'm gonna have to go find that replay of BC's ICs...

    Ran the same test as last time, "Experiment E"... Sonic's D-Air isn't quite as deadly as it was, but it can still kill very early.

    Hit by Sonic's D-Air at Final Destination ledge height, accounting for decent DI...

    Captain Falcon cannot survive past ~11%.
    DK cannot survive past ~25%.
    R.O.B. cannot survive past ~36%.

    Anyone else I should check? Looks like Sonic's D-Air is still OP.

    I noticed that too, just now... Must be a mistake.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2015
  2. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    Is there anyone else who doesn't particularly like the streaks in Ike's Ragnell now? Doesn't seem to make sense to me. It would be more sensible for the streaks to be yellow, or instead of streaks, Ragnell could leave behind a light trail like it does in Smash 4.
     
  3. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    Mario's AI always does his uTaunt instead of sTaunt like he should after KOing someone. Why wouldn't he use the metal, I wonder?
     
  4. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    I like the color of the blue trail that follows behind Aether -- I think all of Ike's flame attacks should be blue to match canon -- but the trail looks too solid currently. Needs a fade effect, or some transparency, etc.

    As for Mario taunting, I believe the CPU AI picks a taunt at random. I bet that could be fixed...
     
    2 people like this.
  5. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    I agree with that much. As for the AI, Mario consistently does his uTaunt when I'm playing him.
     
  6. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    Up-Smash does good damage, slides a fair distance out of a dash, is fast, and combos at low percents. It's got a lot of general purpose utility, but if it needs tuning to make it more targeted we'll tweak it.

    Lucario should still have aura, if he doesn't well fix it.
     
  7. DarkLordRS

    DarkLordRS New Member

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    He has aura glows, but oddly it feels like his attacks really don't change from percentage to percentage. Sad. :c
     
  8. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    If you read lucario's changelog you'll notice that all of his aura multipliers have been pretty significantly altered. In regards to Close Combat and double team:

    Double team is likely going to be seeing a bit more of a nerf anyways as i mentioned right before release that it still feels too free. However it will not be going back to pre 75% limited version. The point of the recent changes have been to completely remove that bandaid-fix from lucario entirely. The balancing hasn't been finished since this is a beta, but there will be some more tweaks to his whole moveset really.

    With close combat, it was never intended to be removed. We didn't have time to include it in the beta so it was left out, but you shouldn't need to worry about it that much anyways. With new gravity (and his aura multipliers being completely different) CC doesn't even kill grounded opponents until after 107+. If your getting grabbed by lucario at 107+, your going to probably die one way or another. Even normal force palm kills at around that percent if your not center stage. Besides, close combat can be mashed out of at any percent. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

    EDIT: And i agree with lucario hardly noticing the gravity and fallspeed differences in the moment of battle, however after closely monitoring it over the course of a few days, i did notice a significant difference in combo succession and ledge hop height / options.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2015
  9. Altair357

    Altair357 New Member

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    Understandable. I appreciate the explanation and concern for Kirby's well-being.
     
  10. TheRealF8

    TheRealF8 New Member

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    Honestly, everything you listed can be done equally, if not better (Besides sliding). It seems like a waste to me. MKs up-B in regular brawl hit at a good kill angle, why can't this one still get that so it has better and more rewarding off stage use? Up-smash only combos at low percent where Up-B combos all around. I just don't see the purpose of using it besides chasing aerial opponents, but that like never happens. Nothing a short hop > Up-B can't get more reward out of. Nontheless, I really like what you did with him!
     
  11. Cheetaboy

    Cheetaboy New Member

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    Are there any infinites in this game? if so, are they supposed to be their?
     
  12. 666DAMAGE

    666DAMAGE "SIX SIX SIX DAMAAAAGE!!"

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    Why does Ganon do such demonic damage? My religious leader had to come by and douse my SD card in water now I can't play.

    Thanks a lot you stupid devs!
     
    5 people like this.
  13. Valravn

    Valravn Active Member

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    With the recent gravity changes, there are probably some jank infinites yet to be discovered. However, as far as I'm aware, the intention is to remove them when possible.
     
  14. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    True infinites are removed, but if an infinite can be teched, DI'd, or otherwise avoided in some way on the part of recipient then we (generally) don't look to hard at them. Unless it upsets the balance of course.

    Also, before anyone mentions it, yes i know the term "infinite" is used to define strings that are inescapable. However for ease of explanation and dialog i generally separate them into "infinite with no tech / DI" and "True infinite"
     
  15. Mariosonicman1

    Mariosonicman1 Active Member

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    ...i dont know if i should fill silly or stupid... but i had no idea that i could of connected to the nintendo wifi on brawl minus. now its giving me the urge to share my friend code so i can get destroyed by players.

    also. is it normal for the game to freeze when you play basic brawl on final frusteration?

    edit: actually... i think the game freezes no matter what stage a pick... i dunno if its a bug or if its impossible for me to play online right now...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2015
  16. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Wait, Basic Brawl? Are you trying to play Minus with random people? The odds that the random person you get paired with is running Minus are practically nil, so that could be why you're getting desynced; to play with someone else on Wiimmfi, you must be running the exact same codeset with the exact same files that the other player is using.

    Basically, there are no Random battles anymore, only with Friends.
     
  17. Mariosonicman1

    Mariosonicman1 Active Member

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    is that so? i thought i saw another player join in with me... but if thats the case then i guess i dont really have a choice.
     
  18. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Will you please...
    1.) Make it easy to punish Double Team spam, and/or make it less spammable,
    2.) Add in a small visual cue that will warn us which way Lucario is warping in from out of Double Team, and
    3.) Replace "It's over" with some other SFX, or make it only play a fraction of the time at random, like how Pit's "You can't defeat me" was handled.

    I forgot it could be mashed out of. On a different note: IIRC, high-Aura grounded Close Combat launches foes vertically, while the aerial version sends them horizontally... Why is that? It would make a bit more sense visually if it launched horizontally, like the aerial version.
    I hate getting star KO'ed by grounded max-Aura Close Combat.

    You can't leave Lucario's gravity like this. It floats around like a feather! Lucario weighs 119 pounds canonically; it's no lightweight.

    Besides, it's not fair to all the other characters who are struggling with the higher gravity.
    Poor Ganondorf really drops like a rock now...
     
  19. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Learn what directional influence is. There are no true chaingrabs in Minus, because you can hold away from Roy and he can't regrab you. Whatever "Chaingrab" Roy was doing to you was not a true combo unless you don't know how to DI or DI it badly.

    Also dev team needs to stop messing with GFX, the GFX are part of what makes Minus unique. I still want Falco yelling "PERSONALLY, I PREFER FIRE!" to be a thing [was my favorite part of MAX]. I'm still waiting to test double team to see how laggy it is, but if it's really that bad, they could tweak it like boost and add a 30-frame cooldown on the move or something.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Mariosonicman1

    Mariosonicman1 Active Member

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    I LOVE the SFX. it just made random moves super funny to do and listen to.
    :sonic grabs and pummles: "yo-yo-y-you-your-yo-your" :throws:
    thinking about it. i wish more sound effects like that were added in. especially to some new characters.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2015
  21. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Don't you two mean SFX? GFX = Graphics, SFX = Sound Effects.

    Personally, I think the "funny" SFX get old quick if they play as often as "You're too slow" or "It's over".
     
  22. Valravn

    Valravn Active Member

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    The only one that annoys me is the ZSS down throw line. Mostly because it makes the throw take forever while she says the line.
     
  23. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    1.) that's the idea. I already talked with the others about it before the beta was released. I intend to make it less free, because right now it's still basically a get out of jail free card for any situation that doesn't favor him.

    2.) I probably won't end up doing this, as the idea of punishing DT should be to either jump out of the way or shield (but do remember it can be grab canceled now). I realize that it's hard to punish if you have no idea where he's gonna come from, but adding visual cue takes away any of the surprise of changing up your directions while facing an opponent. (you don't want an opponent to get a read on your habits and start punishing them, so changing directions is important). But with it being less free overall (see #1) then it should be less pivotal in punishing it.

    3.) It's actually "It's not over" :p. I've not really given much thought into what to do about it, but i'll bring it up with the others and see what they think would be good.

    CC is where he dissappears and beats you up :p then finishes with a nice uppercut, it only ever activated on the ground (it makes more sense that way). The aerial grab is actually just Force Palm, and sends them horizontally accordingly. Besides, aerial FP is much better for combo diversity and finishing those combos than CC (while in the air). Using CC in the air would kill absurdly early since your both off the ground.

    Lucario weights 119 lb's but he is also only 4 feet tall :p he also is a combat based ninja of a mon, and canonically jumps extremely high. Not that cannon justifies changes in Minus, but rather that adjusting it too much now would really throw off alot of his combos and the ability to finish them. We may look into lowering his jump height or something a bit, but keep in mind that it would also hurt his recovery.
     
  24. Neville

    Neville GG M8s Minus Backroom

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    This makes shielding pointless. After spending 7 hours playing with Fiva, i've come to the conclusion that there's no reason not to do the grab cancel. As far as I can tell it adds little to no endlag to the move. This makes the only option in most cases to jump away.
     
  25. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    There are plenty of reasons not to grab cancel, unless you meant when they shield. In any case, the balance surrounding the grab cancel hasn't been completed yet and it was (semi) hastily implemented before the beta released. Thankfully, that's what the beta is for.
     

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