Brawl Minus 4.0b is here!

[Bent 00]

1.) that's the idea. I already talked with the others about it before the beta was released. I intend to make it less free, because right now it's still basically a get out of jail free card for any situation that doesn't favor him.

Sounds good to me.

2.) I probably won't end up doing this, as the idea of punishing DT should be to either jump out of the way or shield (but do remember it can be grab canceled now). I realize that it's hard to punish if you have no idea where he's gonna come from, but adding visual cue takes away any of the surprise of changing up your directions while facing an opponent. (you don't want an opponent to get a read on your habits and start punishing them, so changing directions is important). But with it being less free overall (see #1) then it should be less pivotal in punishing it.

Hmm. How about adding in a visual cue at the last moment, right before Lucario reappears? It wouldn't show up early enough to make it easy to see which way it's coming from, only barely soon enough that someone could catch Lucario with perfect timing. At the latest -- just a few frames before it reappears -- such a late visual cue wouldn't help Lucario's opponent any, but it would make the action more clear for people watching. "Look here, here's where something's about to happen." This same kind of visual aid on Zelda's ranged hitboxes might also help players who struggle to memorize where those normally invisible hitboxes are.

3.) It's actually "It's not over" . I've not really given much thought into what to do about it, but i'll bring it up with the others and see what they think would be good.

Huh, it really is... I've been missing a word this whole time.
If you could do something about "Y-y-y-y-y-y-you're too slow" as well, that would be great.

CC is where he dissappears and beats you up then finishes with a nice uppercut, it only ever activated on the ground (it makes more sense that way). The aerial grab is actually just Force Palm, and sends them horizontally accordingly. Besides, aerial FP is much better for combo diversity and finishing those combos than CC (while in the air). Using CC in the air would kill absurdly early since your both off the ground.

Somehow I just don't recall seeing an uppercut at the end of Close Combat... But it's been a while since I've seen it in action.

Lucario weights 119 lb's but he is also only 4 feet tall he also is a combat based ninja of a mon, and canonically jumps extremely high. Not that cannon justifies changes in Minus, but rather that adjusting it too much now would really throw off alot of his combos and the ability to finish them. We may look into lowering his jump height or something a bit, but keep in mind that it would also hurt his recovery.

It's not Lucario's jump height that bugs me, it's how slow it falls. It feels like it's submerged in water. Even his fastfall speed feels slow. When I tried it out in 4.0b, it was like I was playing floaty vBrawl again. Lucario takes too long to drop back down to the ground, and waiting for it to descend slows down the game. The fact that it can quickly go up really high with double Extreme Speed makes this a frequent issue. On the other hand, most everyone else gets back to the ground quickly, making Lucario stick out. I don't think it should be able to compete with Jigglypuff and R.O.B. for record amounts of continuous air time.

Thanks for the thorough reply!

 

[Destructor]

this is awesome but just a question what about custom stages do u plan on implementing that because ive been wanting it for a long time now

 

[Mawootad]

SEP will be returning in 4.0 and was only cut from beta due to time constraints

 

[Ntut]

When is the Hot Patch Coming out?

 

[gkgkgk]

how functional is this with stack smash??

 

[DarkLordRS]

I have to ask here, mostly because the matchmaking thread is dead: where would I find people to play against?

 

[Lucis Perficio]

This makes shielding pointless. After spending 7 hours playing with Fiva, i've come to the conclusion that there's no reason not to do the grab cancel. As far as I can tell it adds little to no endlag to the move. This makes the only option in most cases to jump away.

I've found his grab-cancel to be useful at low-percents, or in cases in which your target techs away after the first hit. It'd be cool if you could choose between the attack portion or the grab though. Though this would need a nerf to go with it. Were it to gain a visual cue as to his direction, this may serve to balance it once again.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

It's not Lucario's jump height that bugs me, it's how slow it falls. It feels like it's submerged in water. Even his fastfall speed feels slow. When I tried it out in 4.0b, it was like I was playing floaty vBrawl again. Lucario takes too long to drop back down to the ground, and waiting for it to descend slows down the game. The fact that it can quickly go up really high with double Extreme Speed makes this a frequent issue. On the other hand, most everyone else gets back to the ground quickly, making Lucario stick out. I don't think it should be able to compete with Jigglypuff and R.O.B. for record amounts of continuous air time.

Thanks for the thorough reply!

I feel like the slow fallspeed is beneficial in aiming Extremespeed for landing and cancelling into attacks. At least that's how I've gotten around his aerial vulnerability when not comboing. Protecting yourself while descending by activating Double Team or Extremespeed is helpful, and sometimes charging an Aura Sphere can engulf anyone who tries to sneak up behind you.

 

[Pikachu2040]

Have any final smashes been changed?

 

[Lucis Perficio]

Have any final smashes been changed?

The changelog says so. Pit's was changed somewhat. Sheik's Light Arrow now deals 100% damage instead of 47%

 

[Gold_TSG]

If my memory serves me correctly, Gravity is not dependent on weight, but instead mass. So, regardless of Lucario's weight, if his mass isn't great enough, gravity wouldn't affect him as much while he is falling. However, this can also be used against characters such as Wolf, Bowser and Dorf, who all fall differently despite this fact.

So I'm just gonna assume that Lucario is using his aura in some manner to slow his descent despite being a """steel type."""

 

[Lucis Perficio]

Not entirely related, but is C. Falcon supposed to be practically invulnerably during a Falcon Punch? Literally, while he's punching, he can't be hit. Grounded hits will tech, and if you're unlucky enough not to have any disjoints, you'll get sucked into it while trying to punish. It sorta becomes an unpunishable move unless you catch him as soon as he's done with it or right before.

 

[Pin Clock]

If you could do something about "Y-y-y-y-y-y-you're too slow" as well, that would be great.

Why would you ever want to change that? That's here to stay.

Have any final smashes been changed?

In Minus, a lot of them have received damage buffs and additional cancels.

 

[Mariosonicman1]

will you talk about some characters final smashes in the smash videos? i think they may be worth talking about.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

What does "fsm" mean? I feel like it might mean "frame speed ????" not sure what the "m" represents though.

 

[Sammi-husky]

Frame Speed Modifier. Higher number = faster, lower number = slower.

If my memory serves me correctly, Gravity is not dependent on weight, but instead mass. So, regardless of Lucario's weight, if his mass isn't great enough, gravity wouldn't affect him as much while he is falling. However, this can also be used against characters such as Wolf, Bowser and Dorf, who all fall differently despite this fact.

So I'm just gonna assume that Lucario is using his aura in some manner to slow his descent despite being a """steel type."""

In Brawl there is no attribute for mass iirc. it's just gravity. The gravity attribute determines how quickly you accelerate towards terminal velocity. If their max fall/fasfall speeds aren't high enough, then gravity won't have much of an effect on the floatieness. It will just make them reach their (slow) fallspeeds faster.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

What's iirc? Couldn't define it with any searches :/ Forgive my lack of knowledge on all this basic lingo lol

 

[Pin Clock]

If I Recall Correctly.

 

[Bent 00]

SEP will be returning in 4.0 and was only cut from beta due to time constraints

How many stage slots will be available, and how will you decide which stages to use?

Not entirely related, but is C. Falcon supposed to be practically invulnerably during a Falcon Punch?

It's supposed to be that way.

It sorta becomes an unpunishable move unless you catch him as soon as he's done with it or right before.

That's the idea. It's easy enough to do.

So I'm just gonna assume that Lucario is using his aura in some manner to slow his descent despite being a """steel type."""

Lucario shouldn't get special treatment / exemption from harsher gravity just because it benefits its playstyle.

Ganondorf would love to be able to float around like that -- he actually does in Ocarina of Time -- but he's not getting that ability in Minus.

Why would you ever want to change that? That's here to stay.

It gets annoying hearing Sonic stutter all the time. Why not play the phrase a fraction of the times he lands his Grab, instead of with every Pummel?

I don't think Sonic's taunts should be cancellable either (they're fast enough normally), but I'm sure that's an unpopular opinion. :/

Anyway, here's a question:
Which characters had their individual gravity/weight/fall speed/etc. values changed to adjust for the higher universal gravity?

 

[Mariosonicman1]

sonic is ment to be a character that annoys other players. so the fact sonic is annoying you with his pummels tells me the devs did a good job with his sound effects. im just surprised he doesnt constantly say common everytime he boosts.

 

[Thor]

Lucario not being floaty wouldn't be Lucario [see PM, also 3.Q Samus]. I don't think messing with his fall speed is ideal.

Also, for counter, how about a smash attack cancel? Just throwing it out, it sounds like a grab cancel is too good [and jump cancel was too good because spamming it + aerial grab anyway], but a smash attack cancel would make the commitment a different sort.

Also resuggesting just giving it a cooldown timer like Boost has.

sonic is ment to be a character that annoys other players. so the fact sonic is annoying you with his pummels tells me the devs did a good job with his sound effects. im just surprised he doesnt constantly say common everytime he boosts.

MAKE THIS A THING [or even him saying "SONIC SPEED!"]

 

[Bent 00]

 

[Neville]

Also, for counter, how about a smash attack cancel? Just throwing it out, it sounds like a grab cancel is too good [and jump cancel was too good because spamming it + aerial grab anyway], but a smash attack cancel would make the commitment a different sort.

It would probably combo into an usmash if it did that. I think that you should have to cancel it before he reappears since a move that has an active hitbox that can be canceled into a grab is stupid. Lucario's DT is better than Pit's older Angel Ring now. We've already come to the conclusion that Lucario is really really good, even with no aura mechanic. I honestly think he should be heavier and keep his floatiness so that he can be comboed. Also Brawl's mechanics actually allow floaty and light characters to live longer than heavier floaty characters. Last night, Fiva's Lucario was living Peach fairs at 150 since survival DI made his trajectory more vertical rather than horizontal. Whatever we do, Lucario still needs to be toned down, or other characters brought up to where he is.

 

[Pin Clock]

Bent, Brawl Minus was founded on its humor and we intend to keep it that way.

 

[Bent 00]

Bent, Brawl Minus was founded on its humor and we intend to keep it that way.

It was a joke, no offense.

Even the best jokes get stale if they're overused.