Brawl Minus 3.Q is all Qued up and ready to go!
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The Concept
Philosopher & Assassin
I'll miss due to spotdodge occasionally.
As far as being too far away, I've made some miscalculations in my time, but this is rare.
What's more common is being the maximum distance away, and the opponent backrolls out of my range.
As far as being too far away, I've made some miscalculations in my time, but this is rare.
What's more common is being the maximum distance away, and the opponent backrolls out of my range.
The Concept
Philosopher & Assassin
If I was that close to you and the propulsion of the attack made me whiz right by you.
Thor
Well-Known Member
In-shield-smash-directional-influence is a thing, and with Pit's Angel Ring hitting that fast, it's very easy (takes fast reflexes but it's actually super easy because there's no roll risk, unlike with some ISSDI where you input it too late and just roll). You can also ISSDI out of range or through him if he's moving fast. Yeah if he times right you're getting grabbed, but that's kind of the point (and this assumes one didn't just jump it, which is the best option).
I wouldn't mind seeing it be always a fixed distance equal to his current standing one - Marth got the same treatment for his angled f-smash, so it's consistent with other changes.
The Concept
Philosopher & Assassin
Except no impale.
Well yeah, cuz he can't do it in the air.
NEWB
Well-Known Member
If we are comparing grounded flame choke and angel ring, angel is certainly better because the shield cancel and angel ring is more consistent. Grounded flame choke does not true combo if you tech, which is easier to do than hope the pit doesn't time his grab correctly. So yeah, pits is better in all regards.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
Angel Ring is better because you have more speed and faster start up, as well as more distance. Not only that, but Flame Choke is just what it is, where the grab out of Angel Ring is literally just that, a grab. AR allows 4 different throws or pummeling, and Flame Choke doesn't. While FC can be teched, it isn't bad by any means, because good reads lead to follow up attacks or more FCs. Fixed distance on AR keeps it under control while maintaining its utility, and I honestly think that's the best path to take with it, considering how good Pit's kit is overall.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Totally different topic, but important.
I realize the shield-pushback change that I may have caused by complaining about Kirby's fsmash being unshieldgrabbable caused a negative consequence - now some dash attacks, when properly spaced, aren't shieldgrabbable. Easy examples are Sheik and Samus dash attack. I think dash attacks are what should be shieldgrabbable instead of fsmashes - one is charging up to smash at them with massive power, the other is rushing in [blindly, almost] and attack, where one then would deserve to get blocked and grabbed. Could this gameplay change be reverted?
I realize the shield-pushback change that I may have caused by complaining about Kirby's fsmash being unshieldgrabbable caused a negative consequence - now some dash attacks, when properly spaced, aren't shieldgrabbable. Easy examples are Sheik and Samus dash attack. I think dash attacks are what should be shieldgrabbable instead of fsmashes - one is charging up to smash at them with massive power, the other is rushing in [blindly, almost] and attack, where one then would deserve to get blocked and grabbed. Could this gameplay change be reverted?
Shield pushback can be adjusted per move if I recall right... If certain moves are problematic (not enough risk for perceived reward), then I think editing the attacks instead of the core mechanic would be better, assuming the mechanic change itself isn't flawed.
It will. The Smash 4 FD is over PM's FD.
Literally just the camera was changed.
I'm sad too.
Unsure if we have good enough stage designers for that.
The only difference for Minus' FD is the collision data.
If that's the case, then you could just import Minus' ModelData100, collisions, and STPM (the camera) into this new FD, and it should work without desynching... I think?
Like how PM has their own FD? That depends. What would it even be? PM's was a no-brainer, because it's just Melee's platform with some texture swapping for the BG. I guess a Minus one would need to be completely original, or a more extreme version of Brawl's... but I'm not really sure what that would look like.
If you have ideas though, be sure to share em.
For the sake of keeping things clean though, I'd suggest continuing this FD discussion in the stage thread.
Yep! Most recent version is here.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Also, for the record, I would support ZSS dsmash being reverted to vBrawl status, because in my opinion it's better as it was in vBrawl than it is in 3.Q - I think that dsmash should be safe on shield and link 3 times, which it did in vBrawl and doesn't in Minus.
I also still want a powerup taunt where ZSS either transforms into Samus (if the R button is held down, like with Samus's powerup taunt), or else where ZSS spawns a single armor piece on the floor (or 3 if that's much easier to code) [this would allow a player to switch between ZSS and Samus mid-match without a final smash].
I also still want a powerup taunt where ZSS either transforms into Samus (if the R button is held down, like with Samus's powerup taunt), or else where ZSS spawns a single armor piece on the floor (or 3 if that's much easier to code) [this would allow a player to switch between ZSS and Samus mid-match without a final smash].
Thor
Well-Known Member
Double post but my idea above has a like and this is completely different so I'll post it in a different post:
I've heard utilt is getting fixed because the new one has no combos and dsmash may be getting reverted. What if we revert utilt, but not dsmash? I know he already does have a lot of mixups, but imagine someone trying to spotdodge dsmash... only to get clobbered by utilt? Or you use an uncharged dsmash to make your opponent spotdodge, roll, or airdodge from halfway across stage. I think it would be hilarious to give Ganondorf two moves that have visually similar startups, but drastically different results. Anybody else like this idea, or is it just me?
I've heard utilt is getting fixed because the new one has no combos and dsmash may be getting reverted. What if we revert utilt, but not dsmash? I know he already does have a lot of mixups, but imagine someone trying to spotdodge dsmash... only to get clobbered by utilt? Or you use an uncharged dsmash to make your opponent spotdodge, roll, or airdodge from halfway across stage. I think it would be hilarious to give Ganondorf two moves that have visually similar startups, but drastically different results. Anybody else like this idea, or is it just me?