Most OP version of each character?

[Gold_TSG]

IMO 3.Q DK is the best version, cause with all that he can do already, this version is the one where I fixed the issue with his charging punch shield cancel not working as it should have.

 

[Tybis]

Snake in whatever build he had the sticky C4 because that shit was waaay too good.
-----
Current Zelda (...?) I'm unaware if she's received any nerfs since 2.X, but she completely shuts down a lot of characters and it's really silly. Still my pick for the strongest character. Whoever added her FTilt I h8 u, she was already top 3 lol

C4 was in since vBrawl. But yeah it's great.

Whatta you think about Zelda's on-hit teleports?

 

[Bent 00]

Whatta you think about Zelda's on-hit teleports?

They're only the most fun ability Zelda has, and one of the best changes Minus made IMO.

Please don't even think about nerfing Zelda just because a few people won't bother to learn how to fight her.

If anyone wants to face my Zelda -- best around AFAIK -- let me know. She's perfect as-is, except her grabs are too slow and her ranged D-Tilt hitbox / GFX is bugged on slopes.

 

[Tybis]

GFX is bugged on slopes.

It's not "bugged" per se, it just intentionally wasn't programmed to hit grounded characters... If I remember right (I may be mistaken).

 

[Bent 00]

It's not "bugged" per se, it just intentionally wasn't programmed to hit grounded characters... If I remember right (I may be mistaken).

It hits grounded targets as of 3.Q. Pops 'em straight up. MUCH improved from the 3.5 Ranged D-Tilt.

See here for explanation of how it's a little buggy on slopes:

http://brawlminus.net/forums/threads/report-all-character-bugs-here.134/page-2#post-7834

 

[Thor]

2.X.6 Falco (pls give me my NAir cancelling back he's so dull to play now :c)

*stuff about Olimar* *stuff about Pikachu*

Falco still has a decent (if very-poorly ranged) aerial game with nair being a great-followup and lead-into utilt (I've strung the two together up past 80% from 0%) and unlike in 2.X.6, Falco has a real recovery in 3.Q/3.5 - his phantasm is crazy good and firebird is nigh-ungimpable (cape does the trick, very little does otherwise).

I never played when this nair cancelling was a thing, but I don't think he needs it. He's top 5 in the game right now, and has the tools to take on and deal with pretty much every single character in the game effectively (though in some MUs, like vs Captain Falcon, you have to make every stray hit and every gimp attempt count).

His slow lasers were awesome but better utilt is amazing and fast lasers are still good (not as good at shutting down certain characters, but that's probably more balanced... and they don't help as much as stray damage does against some characters) so it's a toss-up, but if I could get slow lasers and 3.Q utilt... well it would be amazing... also

@Pin Clock , @Kienamaru

uthrow still sucks even with fast lasers, DI the initial throw and all the lasers miss. They also have nearly zero hitstun - was playing with another member on the boards (someone actually good) and uthrow is terrible - it either needs a JC or something, but the throw is less useful than it ever was in Brawl or Melee, because all his throws here are just better... so fast lasers didn't help his uthrow at all.

As for Olimar, he was better in 3.5 (he got a slight damage nerf, and some sort of error in coding occasionally crashes the game due to that mod), and there are definitely ways... reflectors do a great deal, as does Marth's counter. If you're trying to fight him with Luigi, well, good luck, if you want MU advice I can probably provide a little (I dabbled with Olimar, and I knew one guy who played him in FFAs and told everyone his only goal was to be a stage hazard... he was really good at indiscriminately throwing pikmin too XD. As a result I'm not too bad at dealing with him).

Zelda is bad - her best move is down+b. I'm sort of joking, but I think Sheik is better than Zelda.

Pikachu can still JC thunder and t-jolt - I don't know what you're talking about... also current QAC is stupid, if they shield you going through and back and you fsmash it's usually a broken shield.

Also DK should get his healing taunt back, Aether should be rebuffed to heal 10%, but it should be a dragging hitbox on the way down so you can't meteor-smash people to doom with Aether at 60% (it's nearly as good as his dair...), Pichu needs a revamp, and Dorf should have cancellable Punch, but that stuff won't happen so whatever.

 

[PermaVermin]

"Learn how to fight Zelda"
I'm sorry but really, how do I fight a character who is dangerous in this entire range in a matter of frames?

I don't even know where to fit in her Jab, Utilt, etc in that image without making it even more convoluted. And these are just her options from a neutral standing position, NOT including specials, NOT including pivot SH BAir, NOT taking into account the zelda altering her jump arc to space her aerials forward/backwards, etc, etc..
Keep in mind a lot of this comes out VERY fast and has little recovery, especially FAir and BAir. Filt can wreck your shield and end up pushing you back on block, and once you try to jump over it (failing to punish) the Zelda can start throwing the tilted version to effectively anti-air you. It's incredibly difficult to get in on her and even when you do it hardly feels like a reward. She doesn't sacrifice her ranged ability for killing power, either. Her only drawback is her limited movement, which isn't necessarily a problem for her since she doesn't want to get in, and is dangerous to go in on quickly. Even then she has options in her quick Dsmash and Neutral B..
She works well on both small and Large stages because while Large stages give her room to retreat/space her normals, small stages give you nowhere to hide from her normals.
Playing Bowser? Gee I hope you win the first round! Because even if you manage to win the second round in a first to two your opponent will just go to Zelda and that shit is 10-0 gg. You're not fast enough to chase her down and if you try to armor through her ghost hitboxes you end up taking a ton of damage while making what feels like no progress.
It's even worse for Charizard! Oh let me just play my defensive zoning/poke game with my big ass hitbox versus this character with a smaller frame, better pokes, a reflector, and non clashing projectiles. 11-0.
I know she's beatable in human hands, people make errors. But assuming a Zelda was played flawlessly, her toolset would stop anyone from ever getting in on her.
I'm likely rambling and I'm not a very organized writer, but that's my case for why Zelda is so good.

I never said she needed nerfs, It just blew me (and everyone else in my scene) away when she was given the buffed FTilt.

 

[PermaVermin]

Falco still has a decent (if very-poorly ranged) aerial game with nair being a great-followup and lead-into utilt (I've strung the two together up past 80% from 0%) and unlike in 2.X.6, Falco has a real recovery in 3.Q/3.5 - his phantasm is crazy good and firebird is nigh-ungimpable (cape does the trick, very little does otherwise).

I never played when this nair cancelling was a thing, but I don't think he needs it. He's top 5 in the game right now, and has the tools to take on and deal with pretty much every single character in the game effectively (though in some MUs, like vs Captain Falcon, you have to make every stray hit and every gimp attempt count).

Pikachu can still JC thunder and t-jolt - I don't know what you're talking about... also current QAC is stupid, if they shield you going through and back and you fsmash it's usually a broken shield.

Also DK should get his healing taunt back, Aether should be rebuffed to heal 10%, but it should be a dragging hitbox on the way down so you can't meteor-smash people to doom with Aether at 60% (it's nearly as good as his dair...), Pichu needs a revamp, and Dorf should have cancellable Punch, but that stuff won't happen so whatever.

Oh of course, Falco's definitely still up there! He definitely doesn't NEED his Nair cancels back, they were just a lot of fun to execute for onstage combos. Nair->Bair->jump->Nair->Bair is a lot more interesting than Bair->jump->Bair, y'know? I -never- had a problem recovering in 2.6x. even against gimping machines like Marth

Pikachu's JC on his specials used to be MUCH earlier, like nearly instantaneously jump cancelable. Pika's Air to ground pressure was similar to that of Mario's I described earlier, but a bit weaker. Even if you want to nerf the Thundershock JC, the Thunder JC should stay quick.

Completely agreeing with everything in that last paragraph. The only problem with the DK bit was him healing past 0%.

C4 was in since vBrawl. But yeah it's great.

There was a build (I'm not sure if it was a tester build or something) where snake could do Down+B+A and he would stick the C4 to himself. On contact with other players (and shields sometimes) it would transfer to them. Dash Attack->Detonate killed at like 40% lol
Zelda Doesn't really need the on hit teleports because her hitboxes typically pull the enemy towards you for a free followup and she doesn't really want to go in overall, IMO. They're great for confusing the opponent, though!

 

[Bent 00]

Of course big characters like Bowser and 'Zard are going to have a hard time against Zelda.

Who do you main? Fast characters own Zelda. Have you tried dropping down on her from a 50° angle? It's easy to interrupt her Up Smash from that angle. Once you get right beside Zelda, you just have to predict and punish her D-Smash. She's really limited at close range.

Want to face my Zelda online sometime?

 

[PermaVermin]

It's beyond a hard time, it's neigh unwinnable haha. But that's minus I suppose.
I main random select. Or at least it feels like it nowadays. Most people I play with now are pretty new to Minus and I have a very good grasp on most the Minus cast because Fuse and I used to just play random select for nights on end. I try to give everyone a good glimpse of what each character can do.
I'd say my best though Are Falco and Lucario, but I still feel that Lucario's too strong so I avoid using him too much.
That being said, Lucario's unpredictable attack angles make him an excellent counterpick to Zelda, And Toon Link is the one character who I feel beats her in the zoning game due to his ability to pester her with countless bombs from outside her range.
As for playing fighters online I don't own a wii! \('-' )/ And I'm not fond of playing fighters online, sorry haha

 

[Kien]

Can I just say, that Zard can KO Zelda in as little as 5 attacks? Her offstage game only works if you try to edgeguard or chase her.

Thor were you wanting me to address something?

 

[Bashdemears]

How to play zelda

Get a lead.
spam fairs and bairs from the ledge
Dont teleport
When one hits you can either down air or. Hit with UpByou (depends on if they end up below or next to you because upB SPIKES for some stupid reason)
Boom their stock is gone
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE PUTS ZELDA IN SSSSS+ TEIR IN OUR GROUP. Its a 90-10 matchup on everyone.


How hard is it to get the lead? Not hard. Spam well spaced fair,bair, tilts, smashes whatever you want. The opposing player HAS to approach because you have percentage/stock lead.


Before anyone responds, I want you to try it out. Do it on CPUs and do it on your friends. Have them do it on you. Zelda is obscene and I will go so far as to ban her in tournaments

 

[Bashdemears]

@Spookyman get in here

Even if im wrong she can still kill every character in two hits. (One on yoshis story im waiting on a replay from Doq as proof)

 

[Bent 00]

Good grief... Zelda is good, but not THAT good. You're making her out to be much stronger than she actually is.

How to play zelda

Get a lead.
spam fairs and bairs from the ledge
Dont teleport
When one hits you can either down air or. Hit with UpByou (depends on if they end up below or next to you because upB SPIKES for some stupid reason)
Boom their stock is gone
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE PUTS ZELDA IN SSSSS+ TEIR IN OUR GROUP. Its a 90-10 matchup on everyone.

If you're losing stocks to a ledge-camping Zelda, you need to familiarize yourself with her ranged hitboxes better. They're easy to avoid once you know where they will pop up. Dodge 'em, and go spike or edgehog Zelda. Simple stuff.

Before anyone responds, I want you to try it out. Do it on CPUs and do it on your friends. Have them do it on you. Zelda is obscene and I will go so far as to ban her in tournaments

I already have tried it out. For months. I play Zelda in my local group's weekly title matches. My friends had trouble against Zelda at first, but they learned how to avoid her ranged hitboxes and punish her properly after a few meetups. Now 3/4 of my crew can handle her just fine; our Luigi main does really well. The other 1/4 can't be bothered to learn where Zelda's ranged hitboxes are, or how to dodge and shield effectively. Practice moar.

@Glyph, @Gold_TSG, either of you care to show these two how easy it is to beat Zelda? I'll play you.

There are already plenty of videos of Glyph beating my Zelda on DukeBattleDrive, and I play the best Zelda in Minus AFAIK.

All you have to do is drop down on her with an attack from a 50° angle. Get in her face and don't let up. Predict D-Smash and punish. Shield or dodge ranged attacks and hit Zelda while she's in endlag.

 

[Bashdemears]

All I can say in rebuttal is there's no reason I should be getting fourstocked by one character in the game and nobody else. Im not sure how these angles help you and your friends out but Spookyman can see that crap comming a mile away and spaces for it. When the fair hits, it has set knockback and hitstun so the dair or upB is free. Stock gone. Always. The only reason it would miss is because you're bad at spacing. I played zelda for the first time and was able to do it. Nothing matters when playibg against a good zelda. Only hope to your god that the opponent misses their spacing but they won't because its not hard at all.

Once again, Zeldas broken because she has a two hit KO on every character ( The dair/upB is GARUNTEED after the fair/bair because they have SET KNOCKBACK) And a OHKO on everyone at yoshis story. She can use bair/fair/fsmash to setup into dair or upB.

 

[Kien]

I would say that the current TL is the most broken one. Some people think that current Link is also the most broken.

 

[Bent 00]

Are there any videos of spookyman's Zelda? I've never played him or seen any recent matches of his.

Once again, Zeldas broken because she has a two hit KO on every character ( The dair/upB is GARUNTEED after the fair/bair because they have SET KNOCKBACK) And a OHKO on everyone at yoshis story. She can use bair/fair/fsmash to setup into dair or upB.

Can you post some footage of this in action?

 

[Bashdemears]

Waiting on doqk to upload the replays. Go bother him lol. Most of the replays are my falcon vs spookys wolf. (Because fun times and showing near-unescapable KOs off the top) I know there is one showing the OHKO. I *think* theres some showing the two-touch. Will do more soon if not.

 

[Glyph]

Haven't read like any of this but 'this character is broken my friends always beat me with it' and 'this character isn't broken look I've lost with them before' are both terrible arguments to make, what's wrong with you goons

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

That's why don't say stuff is broken.

I say it's the oppest shit ever.
tink arrows 4 stocked purin

 

[Bashdemears]

My friends always beat me with it because of [insert here].

I try not to use this argument unless I'm positive I've fully explored the subject.

Doq replays plz

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

but server shit tho ;~;

 

[Bashdemears]

The future of balance in minus is at stake here

 

[knives]

Minus might not have a future at all.

 

[Bashdemears]

If we get a good showing at apex, then I disagree. Minus is just too strange to be considered "just another not melee smash"