Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

[Ludacario]

Request for
Make shorten a different input, that requires less of an exact input
On console shortening is fine. There's no lag, and it's able to be practiced. However on netplay, or wifi, shortening is incredibly difficult (to do on purpose). Because of the varying input buffer times per player (and the fact the game can slow down), any practice shortening is virtually wasted. I suggest moving the input to shield or grab (similar to fox's slow illusion). This would allow Falco players to actually use an underrated part of Falco's kit.

Bent if you want a summary just post something like:
Make shortening simpler (similar to fox's slow illusion)

 

[Bent 00]

Ludacario: Is this OK?
Make Shortening simpler (similar to slow Fox Illusion) and easier to do consistently online, perhaps by moving the input to Shield or Grab. This would allow Falco players to actually use an underrated part of his kit. [Ludacario]

"Shortening" is a shorter form of Falco Phantasm, I'm guessing? I haven't heard that term before today.

 

[666DAMAGE]

Aw, really? Well, this Falcon main thinks that regular Up Taunt sounds boring without the quiet "Yess". I'd prefer to hear both halves of the taunt improved, instead of only one of them.

I separated our Requests, and added a POLL.

What I proposed is a silence for regular and Yes 1 time for the charge.

Less is more sometimes.

 

[Bent 00]

What I proposed is a silence for regular and Yes 1 time for the charge.

Less is more sometimes.

Fixed. I often agree with the "Less is More" philosophy, but not in this instance. IMO, Falcon's regular Up-Taunt is too boring (especially by Minus standards) without the quiet "Yess".

 

[Ludacario]

Yeah shortening is for side b, sorry should have included that. your summary is perfecto.

 

[baltarc]

Diddy Kong: Implement the sunglasses taunt from PM. Preferably this would have a less strict input window than PM's and not disappear when damage is taken. Maybe let him taunt again to take them off.

[I edited my previous post suggesting this change for Squirtle to include Diddy as well, but I noticed it hadn't been added as a second pending suggestion under Diddy, so I'm posting it again.]

 

[Neville]

Kymaera K1ng Wolf's Shine has hitstun and it's knockback is set to move his opponent in the same speed and direction as Wolf is going. If Wolf fastfalls his shine spike is better than Fox's. Here's a link to a relevant gfycat. Due to its properties it also functions really well as a combo extender since it's basically a safe way to lead into all of Wolf's aerials, and because you can turn around during the shine it allows you to combo into bair when you shouldn't. This is a move that really doesn't need edits imo.

Edit: I re-watched this at 1/8 speed and realized that BC started using waterfall immediately before he died. Wolf's shine is insane. The best part is because the knockback angle on the shine technically isn't a meteor angle you can't meteor cancel it.

 

[Bent 00]

Kymaera K1ng Wolf's Shine has hitstun and it's knockback is set to move his opponent in the same speed and direction as Wolf is going. If Wolf fastfalls his shine spike is better than Fox's. Here's a link to a relevant gfycat. Due to its properties it also functions really well as a combo extender since it's basically a safe way to lead into all of Wolf's aerials, and because you can turn around during the shine it allows you to combo into bair when you shouldn't. This is a move that really doesn't need edits imo.

Edit: I re-watched this at 1/8 speed and realized that BC started using waterfall immediately before he died. Wolf's shine is insane. The best part is because the knockback angle on the shine technically isn't a meteor angle you can't meteor cancel it.

Yuck, do we have another case like Sonic's old OHKO D-Air on our hands here?

Also, welcome back -- thought you were done here, ha.

 

[Neville]

Yuck, do we have another case like Sonic's old OHKO D-Air on our hands here?

Also, welcome back -- thought you were done here, ha.

I thought I was too but I can't stay away I was trying to do this same thing (fsmash at ledge into shine) on Malkasaur and he kept footstooling me so it's def not guarenteed on most characters and the shine isn't as easy to hit since it's only out for one frame but it does have a massive hitbox. In other words idk but I don't think it's as bad as Sonic dair especially since I didn't kill him in hitstun even below stage level and if BC was playing a character with a good recovery he could have actually recovered from this.

 

[Thor]

For quite a while I wished Wolf's shine was more like PM shine, stalling him in air and launching at some kind of angle [I wouldn't be bothered if it was a shine spike, a Melee Falco shine (that'd be hilarious actually), or a PM angle of some kind... perhaps it could even send up and behind Wolf to make it combo into bair or flash???], but I don't like the idea of shine spikes KOing at 0 with no chance to recover where you just run offstage like that...

Now that I at least understand how it works, I might be able to start using it more... so from that description, Wolf shine doesn't launch anywhere when Wolf's standing still because he's not moving?

 

[Dusk]

Can we get it so Sonic's Up Taunt is "Now I'll show you" from the super sonic transformation?

ow that I at least understand how it works, I might be able to start using it more... so from that description, Wolf shine doesn't launch anywhere when Wolf's standing still because he's not moving?

It launches if he's grounded, if he's in air it sends them where wolf is going.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

For quite a while I wished Wolf's shine was more like PM shine, stalling him in air and launching at some kind of angle [I wouldn't be bothered if it was a shine spike, a Melee Falco shine (that'd be hilarious actually), or a PM angle of some kind... perhaps it could even send up and behind Wolf to make it combo into bair or flash???], but I don't like the idea of shine spikes KOing at 0 with no chance to recover where you just run offstage like that...

Now that I at least understand how it works, I might be able to start using it more... so from that description, Wolf shine doesn't launch anywhere when Wolf's standing still because he's not moving?

That was kind of my previous suggestion.

In case you didn't see:
"Okay, I'm just going to upload my ideas with variables instead of actual numbers under the assumption that the Dev Team has the frame data. My new suggestion is this: Have Wolf's aerial Shine paralyze the opponent for X frames (where X is the frame his slowest aerial hits), and then launch the opponent as his grounded shine would while keeping the current cancel-ability. This allows Wolf to keep all of his current combos while gaining more PM'ish combos that would be very interesting in Brawl Minus. The window for chaining a Shine into an aerial wouldn't even be that tight when you take into account the hitlag buffer from the Shine. I don't think this would lead to anything inherently broken, but tell me what you guys think."

I really think that changing Wolf's Shine would help wolf in the game as a whole, not just as a buff.

 

[Thor]

I'd rather not have people getting easy shine dairs offstage q_q

Paralyze also sounds absurd in teams, which I don't think is something the devs would want. And it sounds like that means shine usmash would be a consistent thing on the ground, which sounds silly as well.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

I'd rather not have people getting easy shine dairs offstage q_q

Paralyze also sounds absurd in teams, which I don't think is something the devs would want. And it sounds like that means shine usmash would be a consistent thing on the ground, which sounds silly as well.

I honestly just want it to launch at the PM Wolf or Falco angle. I just wanted to find a way where everyone would be happy

 

[Neville]

I'd rather not have people getting easy shine dairs offstage q_q

His shine already confirms into dair.

Edit: Okay but can we talk about how Wario has better air mobility and acceleration than Puff? With his bair and other large aerial hitboxes, Wario is straight up a better air character than Puff. There should never ever be a character that is better in the air than Puff like, ever. Especially characters that have a better ground game than Puff. I'd either move to lower Wario's air speed (although his air mobility is a part of his character) or we can buff Puff's aerial mobility. I've always wanted Puff to be as fast as Falcon but only in the air and while that's probably too extreme, a speedy Puff would be hella fun to play as. Also her dthrow was ruined can we have that back to where it was in Max plz?

 

[Dusk]

I honestly just want it to launch at the PM Wolf or Falco angle. I just wanted to find a way where everyone would be happy

I won't be happy if you change shine bcuz its the only reason i love wolf, his current aerial shine. His combos look, pardon my english, jizztastic because of it. You give him shine stall you slow his game down bcuz he has to jump ooshine to do anything and overall nerf him. Honestly I personally feel like wolf is in a state where he doesn't need any modifications and he's easily best or 2nd best spacie. Thats just me though if the community feels otherwise I guess I could just drop wolf no biggie. I don't main him I just use him as a character in friendlies when I wanna have fun. I might main him because I've been playing him more but idk secondary at most atm.

 

[Pin Clock]

uAir buffs: ZSS does not need any buffs, especially not on uAir of all things
IASA frames on Pika Pika taunt: Yeah sure why not
Remove Super Armor on UpB: Absolutely, recoveries should be interactive, not free
Sheik stuff: Sheik is really good at the moment and just doesn't really need these buffs.
Reverse bAir: This however adds strategy and seems like a fun addition.
Super Armor on some attacks: Dedede is already a considered by the playerbase to be one of the best, getting armor would make him by far the best. No.
Turn around faster: maybe. The only thing we can really do is FSM the turnaround animation, dunno about having him be facing the right way the whole time, which would take a lot more work.
bAirs: We'll consider the possibility.

 

[Dusk]

Remove Super Armor on UpB: Absolutely, recoveries should be interactive, not free

Might as well remove all recoveries with super armour at all then like DDD's and Yoshi's

 

[Pin Clock]

Might as well remove all recoveries with super armour at all then like DDD's and Yoshi's

Dedede's isn't for the whole duration of the move, and his recovery is far more predictable.
Yoshi's is only for his double jumps, and if he does anything during those he loses the armor.

 

[Neville]

Dedede's isn't for the whole duration of the move, and his recovery is far more predictable.
Yoshi's is only for his double jumps, and if he does anything during those he loses the armor.

I agree, Wolf went from a character that shouldn't have the best recovery to a character that has one of the best recoveries in the game because of the armor he has on the upb which is, incidentally, one of the best ways for Wolf to get back to stage from the ledge. Because of his armor and his low friction when he lands. What say you about Puff not having the best aerial mobility, attacks in the game?

 

[Thor]

His shine already confirms into dair.

Edit: Okay but can we talk about how Wario's air mobility and acceleration than Puff? With his bair and other large aerial hitboxes, Wario is straight up a better air character than Puff. There should never ever be a character that is better in the air than Puff like, ever. Especially characters that have a better ground game than Puff. I'd either move to lower Wario's air speed (although his air mobility is a part of his character) or we can buff Puff's aerial mobility. I've always wanted Puff to be as fast as Falcon but only in the air and while that's probably too extreme, a speedy Puff would be hella fun to play as. Alse her dthrow was ruined can we have that back to where it was in Max plz?

Well yeah, but it's DI dependent and stuff. Paralyze would make it like literally free.

I don't mind Puff having better air speed, but could they maybe buff her bair range a bit instead [if the airspeed isn't allowed] (or both)? Maybe it's already Melee range, but that move seems to lose to ZSS flip jump spinny-hitboxes... why the heck does it lose to that!?

Or maybe that's an argument for nerfing the size of those, but I'm not terribly interested in pushing ZSS nerfs.

Also, Longbottom, does Puff vs Yoshi seem okay? I feel like Yoshi is also basically straight-up better in the air due to armor, his amazing nair [not even Yoshifoot, just nair], a very strong spike, and how absurd uair is [it combos into itself, which might not quite be a rest combo, but it can feel like it with how high Yoshi can take himself]. I do agree with you about how Wario is relative to Puff though... considering his much better ground game [and less strong but much less punishable version of rest in up+b], it's odd that he seems to do better in the air too.

 

[Dusk]

Dedede's isn't for the whole duration of the move, and his recovery is far more predictable.
Yoshi's is only for his double jumps, and if he does anything during those he loses the armor.

Just some examples but like you said why give people super armour on recoveries if they should be interactive.

 

[Pin Clock]

Just some examples but like you said why give people super armour on recoveries if they should be interactive.

Dedede's has had armor since vBrawl so it wouldn't be complete garbage. You can gimp him in other ways. Wolf's UpB with armor is amazing, unstoppable, lasts the whole move after start-up, can be used from really far away, and has offensive application as well as use in combos.
Yoshi's is not Super Armor. If you hit him hard enough he goes flying. Also he has it because his UpB doesn't take him very far.

Dedede can be gimped at the part of his UpB that doesn't have armor, as well as during his jumps which combined with his fast fall speed and average air speed don't make for a great recovery.
Yoshi armor isn't Super Armor but it is knockback based. Just hit him hard and you're good.

 

[Dusk]

Dedede's has had armor since vBrawl so it wouldn't be complete garbage. You can gimp him in other ways. Wolf's UpB with armor is amazing, unstoppable, lasts the whole move after start-up, can be used from really far away, and has offensive application as well as use in combos.
Yoshi's is not Super Armor. If you hit him hard enough he goes flying. Also he has it because his UpB doesn't take him very far.

Dedede can be gimped at the part of his UpB that doesn't have armor, as well as during his jumps which combined with his fast fall speed and average air speed don't make for a great recovery.
Yoshi armor isn't Super Armor but it is knockback based. Just hit him hard and you're good.

JUST SOME EXAMPLES PIN! Anyways super armour is super armour make it so only yoshi and snake have any on there recoveries and make adjustments to others recoveries so that they don't need it

 

[Pin Clock]

JUST SOME EXAMPLES PIN! Anyways super armour is super armour make it so only yoshi and snake have any on there recoveries and make adjustments to others recoveries so that they don't need it

There's no way to adjust Dedede's without redoing the whole move and removing the armor from it would make his recovery infinitely worse. It's already "mediocre" so there's no reason to make it any more bad. The armor goes away at the apex of his jump so it's not like the move isn't punishable or doesn't spend a lot of its time vulnerable.

Where as Wolf's currently is brain dead the Super Dedede Jump requires strategy and still isn't all that great.