Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC
- Thread starter Bent 00
- Start date
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
To be clear, I don't want any IC's infinite.Going through more while a dev call is happening:
Chaingrabs: We're not going to return free infinite handoffs but we'll experiment. No promises however.
Also for Pikachu QA JC, make it consume his double jump to make it less powerful, and make JC QD slow IKEA's momentum. I really don't see how it would be that much better since he can already cancel it in to jab then jump.
Shhhh... Get we might lucky...
Also BAir does have a reverse hitbox.
How do people feel about giving Falco his Melee shine? I think it would be AWESOME in this game.
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Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
OK, Wolf changes! Wolf is a very cool character, but some of his options are really, really bad. These are all the changes I think Wolf needs, listed from most to least important.
1) Aerial Shine does no knockback
-If this isn’t a bug, it’s bad game design. Aerial Shine will never send the opponent into tumble, it will only force the opponent into flinch state, making it impossible to combo off of.
2) Revert Air-Dodge to Melee version -AND/OR- Make Shine Wolf Flash cancelable
-This allows him to waveshine, an essential technique for Species Ground neutral, pressure, and combo game. It really doesn’t matter which change you do here, as both changes serve the same purpose.
3) Give Laser some form of cancelability (Auto-Cancel, Air-Dodge Cancel, Jump Cancel)
-In Wolf dittos, Lasers are punishable from almost full screen. Because of the huge ending, they’re almost useless while edgeguarding, and completely detrimental to him in neutral. Also, if other species have safe projectiles, why does Wolf’s projectile suck?
4) Make Wolf's DAir Meteor Cancel later in the moves hit-stun [I TAKE IT BACK I'M DUMB]
-It's way to easy to Meteor Cancel Wolf's DAir. It makes no sense.
5) Make wolf’s turn-around animation turn him around for the whole animation
-It is currently VERY hard (but still possible) to RAR with Wolf, and for no good reason. It is an almost universal and very lenient timing for every other character, so why not wolf?
6) Make Wolf's Up special harder to SDI/ASDI
-An unnecessary but very wanted change. Holding down at lower percents will make the last hit not connect, and it is very easy to SDI at all percents. It should still be pretty easy to SDI though.
7) Make him run out of turn around
-Potential bug, and not really a major thing. It’s only when turning to the right, and it’s not consistent. I’ll experiment with them some more.
Please AT LEAST fix the first five, if not all seven. And finally,
8) Remove the Super Armor on Wolf's Recovery
Trying to gimp Wolf is not really interactive. One of the reasons spacies are fun to fight is because they're so gimpable. The super armor just comes off as a lazy attempt at a recovery mechanic. It's just not fun to play around.
1) Aerial Shine does no knockback
-If this isn’t a bug, it’s bad game design. Aerial Shine will never send the opponent into tumble, it will only force the opponent into flinch state, making it impossible to combo off of.
2) Revert Air-Dodge to Melee version -AND/OR- Make Shine Wolf Flash cancelable
-This allows him to waveshine, an essential technique for Species Ground neutral, pressure, and combo game. It really doesn’t matter which change you do here, as both changes serve the same purpose.
3) Give Laser some form of cancelability (Auto-Cancel, Air-Dodge Cancel, Jump Cancel)
-In Wolf dittos, Lasers are punishable from almost full screen. Because of the huge ending, they’re almost useless while edgeguarding, and completely detrimental to him in neutral. Also, if other species have safe projectiles, why does Wolf’s projectile suck?
4) Make Wolf's DAir Meteor Cancel later in the moves hit-stun [I TAKE IT BACK I'M DUMB]
-It's way to easy to Meteor Cancel Wolf's DAir. It makes no sense.
5) Make wolf’s turn-around animation turn him around for the whole animation
-It is currently VERY hard (but still possible) to RAR with Wolf, and for no good reason. It is an almost universal and very lenient timing for every other character, so why not wolf?
6) Make Wolf's Up special harder to SDI/ASDI
-An unnecessary but very wanted change. Holding down at lower percents will make the last hit not connect, and it is very easy to SDI at all percents. It should still be pretty easy to SDI though.
7) Make him run out of turn around
-Potential bug, and not really a major thing. It’s only when turning to the right, and it’s not consistent. I’ll experiment with them some more.
Please AT LEAST fix the first five, if not all seven. And finally,
8) Remove the Super Armor on Wolf's Recovery
Trying to gimp Wolf is not really interactive. One of the reasons spacies are fun to fight is because they're so gimpable. The super armor just comes off as a lazy attempt at a recovery mechanic. It's just not fun to play around.
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I'm no dev but I don't agree with alot of these ideas
Personally I think wolf is in a good state and reigns supreme offline because of how button intensive he could be and how precise you have to be at times due to his FF speed.
It's meant to be like that because it cancels into aerials.
You could wolfdash shine currently.
Kewl idea. His projectiles don't suck they have ample hitstun, reminds me of melee falco projectiles without cancels and a gun hitbox.
Shine spikes are your homie with wolf.
Personally I think wolf is in a good state and reigns supreme offline because of how button intensive he could be and how precise you have to be at times due to his FF speed.
It's meant to be like that because it cancels into aerials.
You could wolfdash shine currently.
Kewl idea. His projectiles don't suck they have ample hitstun, reminds me of melee falco projectiles without cancels and a gun hitbox.
Shine spikes are your homie with wolf.
Would be too easy too confirm if you couldn't SDI. Also just aim for hitting the apex of it and your opponent can't really escape.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
1) I don't think he's a bad character, but some of his options don't really make sense.
2) I still don't think that should be the case, since it doesn't feel right. I've played Minus for quite a while, yet I only discovered it recently. The momentum cancel is also inconsistent, and that's a bit weird. Sometimes you keep rising. I also feel that it's too gimmicky.
3) That's why I would like it if he could cancel Shine into Wolf Flash. I makes it slightly easier. The current input is actually pretty hard.
4) Yeah, the punishability of them makes them seem very useless. I think the reason it's so bad is because the move is still balanced around him shooting three lasers- which was removed. So it kinda makes sense, but it's still dumb.
5) Shine doesn't spike. If your referring to Shine -> DAir, that does almost the same thing as DAir by itself. I do actually disagree with this change now, since comboing into Wolf Flash and double dipping is actually pretty good for wolf. A better DAir would be a bit too much.
6) I don't want to make it difficult to SDI, but the fact that you can ASDI out super easily is just dumb.
I would also like to hear your opinion on the recovery nerf. You seem to know what you're talking about. Ans if you can convince me my change my opinion on of the other arguments, then I'll update my original Wolf post.
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I use it as his combo tool can be use pretty effectively for that. Also the guy who's far better then me at wolf does it for the same purpose. Get quicker with it and its arguable the most grimy hitstun in the game.
The harder the better imo.
Shine flinches them, which causes them to go downward if they're offstage. If this is done at proper heights it could net easy kills depending on opponents recovery. Also if they attempt to recover it is easier to follow up and hit them with another shine. It pretty much is a spike because of the amount of frames you can't do anything for and because you can not cancel it I believe.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
For waveshing, I can see why you wan't a harder input, but you're not giving a real argument.
However, aerial shine still makes no sense to me. Hitting with a shine BAir(or any other aerial) would just do the same thing as the aerial by itself, no? Wouldn't it be better for him if he had a different option in the air as opposed to a slightly more damaging areal? Also, there are very few characters who can get gimped by a raw Shine, and even then a Shine DAir, and by extension, a normal DAir, would be strictly better.
I would also like to here your better friends opinions on this. and what do you think of the USpecial change? I really do wan't to believe that Wolf's current aerial Shine would be better than have the grounded version of the move, but I really don't think it is. Think of all the things wolf could pull off with that change! It'd be amazing!
Everything being easy makes a game get boring quick. Why would you want to make everything easily accessible to people when you could make it so you actually have to take time to learn something to be proficient at it. This solves two things at once. One, it forcibly means you have to put more playing time to develop your game. Two, it separates those that actually practice from those who don't.
Nah because aerial shine forces flinch, damage, and hitstun which gives you ample time to follow up with an aerial. It guarantees it, with harder button inputs and sicker looking combos.
You need to go deep, wolf's recovery is lenient enough for you to do.
He's "retired" so you won't hear his opinion on the matter. I could tell you it was one of the things that allowed him to keep his opponents in constant hitstun, and probably the one thing that makes wolf better then both spacies. IMO he's definitely better then fox, maybe even or better then falco as well at a high level but not much people are willing to push wolf to that level. Facing would I would say that change would be dumb because it already is a good kill option. Also I'm pretty sure you know this already but you could JC grounded shine into aerial as well.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
1) I don't think making that particular input a bit easier would make the game boring, but that's not really the point. Wolf has to be in the air by JCing the Shine, and he carries over a little bit of momentum, making the Waveshine a lot worse. Just looking at it, it looks like it goes half as far, and it's slower. Also, having a different input for waveshine as opposed to wavedash is very strange. That's what makes Melee's Waveshining system so intuitive. It's the same normally and out of shield/Shine.
2) I understand that it can lead into a guaranteed aerial, I'm saying it doesn't do all that much for the character as opposed to my suggested changes. It does the SAME THING as landing the aerial raw, but with a bit more damage. Same with the "Shinespike". Also, the fact that he can combo grounded shine into an aerial is exactly my point. If wolf had the changes, he could still combo into aerials. It would look a bit like Zetterburn from RoA.
3) Even if he's retired, you can still just ask him. And I meant getting rid of super armor from USpecial btw. It's in the OP.
???) I think I found a way we can both win with the shine changes. I'm thinking about it, will comment soon, so just argue about the waveshine thing. I think my solution of pretty clever btw. And at the and of this debate, I'll remake the original list from what we do agree on
Ona seperate note, does anyone know what frame wolf's slowest aerial is?
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ALLCAPS
Member
Costume Request For Samus
I would like Melee Samus Black Alt that would be kinda cool
I would like a Light Suit Alt for Samus as well
Dark Samus not the brown one but like the blueish one
And a PED Samus would be dope
Basically most of the alts from here http://i.imgur.com/KRUD08P.png
I would like Melee Samus Black Alt that would be kinda cool
I would like a Light Suit Alt for Samus as well
Dark Samus not the brown one but like the blueish one
And a PED Samus would be dope
Basically most of the alts from here http://i.imgur.com/KRUD08P.png
Okay, I can pinpoint exactly what needs to be changed about Toon Link and what would make him much, much better to play against: His boomerang. His boomerang is the best projectile in the game bar none. What it does is absolutely unacceptable. It's extremely safe, as there is little to no lag when it returns to Toon Links hand and comes out extremely quick without any lag. Not only that, but when it hits, it gives you the strongest punish possible. It has lots of hitstun, allowing for Toon Link to setup arrow traps in that time and gain lots of stage control, resetting neutral to be heavily in Toon Link's favor. It is a zero risk, extremely high reward move. It is extremely frustrating to get hit by, as getting hit by it loses all of the space you have to work so hard to get against Toon Link. Toon Link's normals are already really good, so even if you manage to get in against him, he can hit you out, or you get hit by his boomerang on the way back. Toon Link's boomerang gives him a broken version of a design that is already insanely good. It turns him into Sagat, but instead of only excelling at keeping people out, then struggling once they get in, Toon Link excels at keeping people out, then does a great job of getting them out once they get in. It doesn't make any sense. Toon Link's boomerang just makes it so unfun and frustrating to play against him.
Aside from just Toon Link, I don't think any of the Zelda characters are well designed.
Link is just a worse version of Toon Link.
Zelda is ridiculously difficult to play correctly, but when played correctly, is insane. However, just to play her to be like that in any way requires an inhuman level of precision and planning.
Ganondorf is just straight up bad. He lacks any tools to compete in neutral, can only punish with 1 hit at a time, and is so slow without any way to get in. I honestly think he was better when he had the 4.0B Gandouken. He had a reliable way of edgeguarding.
P.S. I keep forgetting to suggest this, but I'd like to see Pikachu have IASA frames on his "Pika Pika!" taunt, just like he had in Melee.
Aside from just Toon Link, I don't think any of the Zelda characters are well designed.
Link is just a worse version of Toon Link.
Zelda is ridiculously difficult to play correctly, but when played correctly, is insane. However, just to play her to be like that in any way requires an inhuman level of precision and planning.
Ganondorf is just straight up bad. He lacks any tools to compete in neutral, can only punish with 1 hit at a time, and is so slow without any way to get in. I honestly think he was better when he had the 4.0B Gandouken. He had a reliable way of edgeguarding.
P.S. I keep forgetting to suggest this, but I'd like to see Pikachu have IASA frames on his "Pika Pika!" taunt, just like he had in Melee.
oh snap I missed a dev reply
but as far as I can tell b- dtilt is really similar to vbrawl dtilt, which is MUCH weaker than it was in melee knockback wise
in melee it was a combo starter at low percents and could kill some characters after 100, but in brawl it won't even kill in sudden death which I think is ridiculous
but as far as I can tell b- dtilt is really similar to vbrawl dtilt, which is MUCH weaker than it was in melee knockback wise
in melee it was a combo starter at low percents and could kill some characters after 100, but in brawl it won't even kill in sudden death which I think is ridiculous
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
I'm assuming you meant the alternate-model Dark Samus and Light Suit Samus, not some re-colors meant to look like them?
I'm just going to shorten that to "Please Nerf Toon Link's Boomerang", since you didn't give any specific suggestions on how it should be Nerfed.
As a Zelda main, I say that Zelda is fine. She's very fun to play as once you've mastered on-hit teleporting and her ranged hitboxes, and she's not that hard to learn -- I learned how to Zelda really well in a month or two. She does not need any Nerfs, because she's so fragile. People who complain about her just need to learn how to fight her: Approach Zelda from a ~45° angle, and learn where her invisible ranged hitboxes are relative to Zelda, constantly keeping them in mind to avoid or Shield them. The only change I'd like to try out on Zelda is faster Grabs. Hers is one of (if not the) slowest Grab in the game. I wouldn't mind trading some Throw power for some Grab speed, if that's what it takes... Like with Ganondorf, what good is a strong move if it's too hard to land it?
Speaking of 'Dorf, I agree with you on everything except Dark Wave being better than Energy Ball (overall).
Energy Ball Pros:
It's more dangerous to get caught by. IIRC, Energy Ball does 8-48% damage.
Landing Energy Ball allows leads into easy (and deadly) follow-ups.
Its repeating hitboxes stay out longer than Dark Wave's hitboxes do.
It cannot be Spot-Dodged or Shielded.
It can be used offstage without suiciding.
It sticks to walls.
It's a GIANT FLAMING SUN OF DEATH
It takes up less space in PSA.
'Dorf can catch up to a thrown Energy Ball and run along with it, using it as a shield.
Energy Ball encourages foes to Jump over it, into a place where 'Dorf likes his foes to be: in the air in front of or above him.
Energy Ball introduces a stage hazard very briefly, which can be used to pressure and manipulate foes. More interesting gameplay.
Energy Ball Cons:
It can be reflected. Energy Ball against characters who can reflect is generally a bad idea.
It's slower then Dark Wave, making it easier to avoid.
It is easy for a low-damage foe to escape from, because the hitbox size was over-Nerfed (IMO).
It doesn't cover as much horizontal distance at once as Dark Wave does.
Stronger enemy projectiles will plow right through Energy Ball without stopping.
It's just a max-charge Super Scope shot, no fancy PSA here. But it works!
Using it will destroy any item in 'Dorf's hand. This will be fixed next version.
Dark Wave Pros:
It can not be reflected back against 'Dorf; Dark Wave flips on his Y axis, and 'Dorf flips around with it.
It can KO foes with high damage by itself (no follow-up necessary).
It deals all of its damage at once. No escaping with partial damage.
It can go through walls.
Stronger enemy projectiles tend to clang with Dark Wave rather than go through it.
Some say it is better at edge-guarding than Energy Ball is -- but I think they're about even in that department.
Dark Wave Cons:
It does less damage: 16% on ranged hitboxes and 32% on fist hitboxes, IIRC.
It deals a single hit with modest knockback and KBG. Energy Ball's follow-ups are much better.
It is easier to dodge than Energy Ball. Neither can be aimed, but 'Dorf can interact with Energy Ball. Dark Wave is "Fire and Forget".
Using it offstage is suicidal.
It does not line up with 'Dorf's arm properly, most noticeably when used offstage.
It looks like a wave of Grape Soda to some.
It takes up more space in PSA.
Dark Wave doesn't have interesting counterplay. You just avoid it or get hit in a second.
The main things 'Dorf needs (IMO) are more speed and a revamped Neutral B that is more useful. Energy Ball Gandouken is good, while the other half of the move is terrible (I know that's not changing officially, but it's true). Some are saying that 'Dorf needs more combo-oriented moves. I could see a "Tap/Hold" setup introduced for Neutral-Air (where Tap = fast combo move and Hold = Three-Kick on-hit combo ender), but other than that... Strong, single hits are just 'Dorf's thing. He really should have a reflector, a float, and a sword mode too, but those are more things that will probably never happen in official Minus. Hmm, perhaps his Forward-Throw could be made less powerful, and more of a combo move...? I think I'd probably like it if the angle it sends foes at would be a more consistent "straight ahead" angle, similar to Forward-Tilt ("Sparta Kick") but weaker.
That turned out kinda long... I think I'll cross-post that stretch about Ganondorf into the 4.0BC Ganondorf Feedback thread, and if anyone wants to talk about the Dark Lord further, let's continue in there (unless you have specific Requests for him).
I have little to say about Link, since I don't play as or against him much anymore. Kien played a mean Link back in the days of 3.Q -- I wonder if the Hero of Twilight has really sunk so far since then, or did everyone else just rise above him, leaving Link in the lower Tiers? I get that he's very weak against reflecting characters (his neutral game sucks without items, no?), and that he's sorely lacking a combo game... But other than that, Link seems... OK? What else is he missing?
If anyone thinks the discussion for a certain character will likely become long-winded, it may be a better idea to start (or continue into pre-existing) 4.0BC Character Feedback / Discussion threads. Like with those Wolf posts... Looks like I've got some reading to do.
If you want your Requests to get added to the main list faster, kindly post short, concise forms of them instead of (or in addition to) long paragraphs. Also, I'm seeing a major lack of supplemental information here -- if you could include stuff like pictures and download links for Costume Requests, and pictures or video of gameplay issues relevant to your Requests, that would make this easier for me.
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Thor
Well-Known Member
Wolf doesn't need super armor on up+b [at least not while moving lol... maybe on startup?], but the rest of the changes seem extremely unnecessary. I do miss his triple lasers though... that would fix the laser issue brought up [but there may be a good reason those were removed that I'm unaware of?]
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
Trying to shorten up these Wolf Requests... Kymaera K1ng, are these shortened forms of your Requests OK with you?
Wolf:
---
Give Knockback to Wolf's aerial Shine. Currently, it only forces foes into Flinch state, which is impossible to combo off of. [Kymaera K1ng]
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Revert Air-Dodge to Melee version AND/OR make Shine Wolf Flash cancellable. Either change would allow Wolf to WaveShine, essential for his ground neutral, pressure, and combo game. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Make Wolf’s turn-around animation flip him for the whole animation. It's too hard to Reverse Aerial Rush as Wolf, while it's not for everyone else. [Kymaera K1ng]
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Make Wolf's Up special harder to SDI/ASDI. Holding down at lower percents will make the last hit not connect, and it is (and should be) easy to SDI at all percents. [Kymaera K1ng]
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Remove Super Armor on Wolf's Up-Special. Trying to gimp Wolf is not interactive. Spacies should be gimpable. It's just not fun. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Did I miss anything?
Didn't include this one since you said it might be a bug. Those go in the Bug Report thread.
Wolf:---
Give Knockback to Wolf's aerial Shine. Currently, it only forces foes into Flinch state, which is impossible to combo off of. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Revert Air-Dodge to Melee version AND/OR make Shine Wolf Flash cancellable. Either change would allow Wolf to WaveShine, essential for his ground neutral, pressure, and combo game. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Make Wolf’s turn-around animation flip him for the whole animation. It's too hard to Reverse Aerial Rush as Wolf, while it's not for everyone else. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Make Wolf's Up special harder to SDI/ASDI. Holding down at lower percents will make the last hit not connect, and it is (and should be) easy to SDI at all percents. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Remove Super Armor on Wolf's Up-Special. Trying to gimp Wolf is not interactive. Spacies should be gimpable. It's just not fun. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Did I miss anything?
Didn't include this one since you said it might be a bug. Those go in the Bug Report thread.
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Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
Trying to shorten up these Wolf Requests... Kymaera K1ng, are these shortened forms of your Requests OK with you?
---
Give Knockback to Wolf's aerial Shine. Currently, it only forces foes into Flinch state, which is impossible to combo off of. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Revert Air-Dodge to Melee version AND/OR make Shine Wolf Flash cancellable. Either change would allow Wolf to WaveShine, essential for his ground neutral, pressure, and combo game. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Make Wolf’s turn-around animation flip him for the whole animation. It's too hard to Reverse Aerial Rush as Wolf, while it's not for everyone else. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Make Wolf's Up special harder to SDI/ASDI. Holding down at lower percents will make the last hit not connect, and it is (and should be) easy to SDI at all percents. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Remove Super Armor on Wolf's Up-Special. Trying to gimp Wolf is not interactive. Spacies should be gimpable. It's just not fun. [Kymaera K1ng]
---
Did I miss anything?
Didn't include this one since you said it might be a bug. Those go in the Bug Report thread.
Yeah thats perfect, but im trying to find some middle ground for the whole shine argument.
I just really like the way his shine works currently because it leads into sick combos. Also you asked something along the lines of wouldn't it be better to land a raw aerial instead of shine + aerial. The way I see it is that the shine allows you to put a safer hitbox out, which also gives you a guaranteed aerial. This leads into some sick looking combos imo. Sure you could just aerial but it doesn't feel as good as compared to s+a. You probably play more wolf then me so w/e if the devs like your changes thats cool if they don't then at least you gave it a shot.
player_03
P3
Right. Which is more likely to land: frame 1 shine or frame 10 bair? (I made those numbers up and I know they're probably wrong, please don't hurt me.) Besides, it's free damage.
---
Now let's talk about G&W's dash attack.
For most of the animation, G&W stays perfectly still. There are only three frames when he jumps forwards, which is what gives the move G&W's usual jerkiness.
Problem is, you can cancel the move on the third "jump" frame. If you do, G&W keeps the speed of that third "jump," letting him slide a good distance while performing almost any move (smashes, tilts, jabs, specials, and grabs). This is a powerful and safe technique, with similar utility to Ike's quick draw.
If only it wasn't frame-perfect. I might be able to get good at the timing in training mode, but as soon as I go on netplay, the lag is going to ruin it. It's basically up to chance at that point.
My request is one of the following:
- Make this easier to do. (For instance, you could make this the first cancelable frame, allowing players to buffer it.)
- Remove it and give G&W something else.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
I'm gonna try to find a way where everything works. I kinda need frame data though, so it's taking a while. I'm gonna record Wolf's frame data while I'm at it. I just need more time.
EDIT: Okay, I'm just going to upload my ideas with variables instead of actual numbers under the assumption that the Dev Team has the frame data. My new suggestion is this: Have Wolf's aerial Shine paralyze the opponent for X frames (where X is the frame his slowest aerial hits), and then launch the opponent as his grounded shine would while keeping the current cancel-ability. This allows Wolf to keep all of his current combos while gaining more PM'ish combos that would be very interesting in Brawl Minus. The window for chaining a Shine into an aerial wouldn't even be that tight when you take into account the hitlag buffer from the Shine. I don't think this would lead to anything inherently broken, but tell me what you guys think.
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Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
At first, I didn't think I would like this change, but I went ahead and tried it out... and it actually fits pretty well IMO.
It's like Falcon is hyping himself up with the power of "Yes".
If we add Falcon's quiet "Yess" to his Secret Taunt, then I think we should add one instance of it to the regular Up Taunt, too.
666DAMAGE
"SIX SIX SIX DAMAAAAGE!!"
I just think him charging while hyping himself up is more fitting.At first, I didn't think I would like this change, but I went ahead and tried it out... and it actually fits pretty well IMO.
It's like Falcon is hyping himself up with the power of "Yes".
If we add Falcon's quiet "Yess" to his Secret Taunt, then I think we should add one instance of it to the regular Up Taunt, too.
Regular taunt = No Yes
Charging = Yes