Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

[666DAMAGE]

Charge Shot: We would do this if non-fully charged shots didn't have a use in Minus. in the air is an easy way to single tap launch those.

I was told that the ideal charge shot is right before full charge because it also stuns but I never got an answer as to why that is.

Why not just make the full shot also stun and add the air charge as well?

 

[Darxmarx]

Here's what I've got right now, help me update it anyone?

Here are the 4.0BC costumes you missed.

Spoiler: 4.0BC Costumes

Alternate Models:

Pichu (Some costumes are recolors, Melee costumes and Ukulele have model changes)

Mostly Recolors:

Charizard
Ivysaur
Kirby
Lucario
Mr. Game and Watch
Squirtle
Yoshi

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

Charge Shot: We would do this if non-fully charged shots didn't have a use in Minus. in the air is an easy way to single tap launch those.

Imma have to challenge you on this one pin. Minus players are competent enough to press the damn button twice.

Also, what it Roy's Arial side special had a hitbox in it? Then you could map marths basic special on to roy and work from there. Anyway, more changes:

Roy: More IASA on jab, since it doesn't combo well, but I'll test with it more.

IC's: give them a way to true combo when Na Na gets a grab. Freezing ain't cutting it.

ZSS: give UAir more horizontal reach.

Jiggly puff: PLEASE try to figure out how to get her 8 or so jumps.

Shiek: less kbg on F/Dtilt. And please give her a reverse hitbox on BAir.

CF: reverse knee???

Waluigi/mew2: Fix AI recovery. It sucks balls.

Pikachu: UAir tail spike and give him the ability to JC the end lag of QA, sorry of like in brawl. Not really nessicary, but it would be nice.

Ike: JC QD. I think a lot of people want this really badly.

I tried to keep this short, key meet know what you think!

 

[Bent 00]

Pin Clock:
Would you take a look at this list and tell us which fighters under "Status Unknown" do not have plans for their new costumes already finalized?

Spoiler: Which Costumes Are/Are Not Finalized

==============
Finalized Costumes (do not Request costumes for these)
==============

----------------------------------
Already included in 4.0BC:
----------------------------------

Alternate Models:

Ike
Link
Lucas
Luigi
Marth
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Ness
Pichu
Pit
Roy
Sheik
Snake
Sonic
Waluigi
Wario
Zelda

Mostly Recolors:

Bowser
Charizard
Ivysaur
Kirby
Lucario
Mr. Game and Watch
Squirtle
Yoshi

-------------------------------------
Finalized for a future release:
-------------------------------------

Alternate Models:

None confirmed yet...

Mostly Recolors:

None confirmed yet...

=============
Nothing Finalized (Request away)
=============

None confirmed yet...

============
Status Unknown
============

Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Mario
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Samus
Toon Link
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus

Thanks to Darxmarx for updated list info.

To all Costume Requesters:

Costume Requests now have their own section.

Past this post, any Requests for new costumes that are for characters whose new costumes have already been finalized will be listed as IGNORED. Costume Requests for fighters whose new costumes have not been finalized will be listed as PENDING until a Minus Dev comments on them -- then they may be marked as APPROVED, UNDER CONSIDERATION, or REJECTED. Costume Requests for characters under "Status Unknown" will stay under PENDING until a Minus Dev comments on them.

 

[Pin Clock]

Pichu is finalized, he has 10 costumes in BC.

 

[Bent 00]

Updated, except for...

Waluigi/mew2: Fix AI recovery. It sucks balls.

Those are bugs, which will be fixed. Please report bugs in the Bug Report thread.

Pichu is finalized, he has 10 costumes in BC.

Noted. List updated.

 

[Neville]

One thing I'd like to see is the first laser when Fox pulls his blaster out having hitstun like Falco's and the remaining one's having the no hitstun they usually have. Tbh I don't think it'd be good because shorthop double laser has been nerfed and even though you can cancel the blaster shots on the ground it will still take a while to pull out the gun again even if you cancel it with like a jab or something. I'll make a PSA of it tomorrow night so people can test but I honestly don't think it would be OP like Pin and Sammi suggested it'd be when I brought it up.

Edit: also Kymaera K1ng double tapping doesn't shoot the uncharge shot as fast as firing it with just B like in the air so this would be a nerf to uncharge chargeshot.

 

[666DAMAGE]

Edit: also Kymaera K1ng double tapping doesn't shoot the uncharge shot as fast as firing it with just B like in the air so this would be a nerf to uncharge chargeshot.

I was told that the ideal charge shot is right before full charge because it also stuns but I never got an answer as to why that is.

Why not just make the full shot also stun and add the air charge as well?

Then the goal would go back to ABC (always be charging) rather than the charge being something you can screw up.

 

[Thor]

One thing I'd like to see is the first laser when Fox pulls his blaster out having hitstun like Falco's and the remaining one's having the no hitstun they usually have. Tbh I don't think it'd be good because shorthop double laser has been nerfed and even though you can cancel the blaster shots on the ground it will still take a while to pull out the gun again even if you cancel it with like a jab or something. I'll make a PSA of it tomorrow night so people can test but I honestly don't think it would be OP like Pin and Sammi suggested it'd be when I brought it up.

Edit: also Kymaera K1ng double tapping doesn't shoot the uncharge shot as fast as firing it with just B like in the air so this would be a nerf to uncharge chargeshot.

This idea is both potentially genius and potentially terrifying.

How was SHDL nerfed again? Longer jumpsquat or what? [I miss 3 frame jumpsquat >_>].

As a suggestion... is there any way we could make Fox shine last a bit longer before it enters the endlag of shine? Unless the endlag of current shine is jump-cancellable already, it would do several things:

- Nerf shine stalling in air slightly [mashing down+b to stall yourself, not amazingly useful in singles but in teams it can be done offstage to wait for a teammate if high up].
- Make it easier to jump cancel shine [you have more time to jump out of it, which could make some things slightly easier (while not slowing down those who already can do it really fast)]
- Matches Melee better [aka if someone is trying the game from Melee it'll feel more like Melee]
- Makes missing a jump-cancelled shine more punishable [even if shine isn't cancelled, holding shield after a shine is still extremely fast... altering it would slow it down and make the failed jump-cancels more noticeable, and thus somewhat more punishable].

It may also make mutlishining easier, but I'm not sure if the dev team would count that as a plus [I KNOW I WOULD!!! : D ].

I'll also suggest one more thing I suggested a while ago... could the dev team make a secret taunt for ZSS that results in her getting and immediately using a final smash? This would allow a player to switch between ZSS and Samus as long as they have sufficient space [a lot more than is required for transform], and it would probably work well if there was a way to disable the hitbox on the final smash when used this way.

 

[Pin Clock]

ZSS and Samus cannot transform into each other in Minus for memory reasons

 

[Bent 00]

Updated. BTW, if anyone sees any good Requests in the Minus Discord, feel free to cross-post them here.

It's easy for good ideas to get lost in the river of comments that is Discord...

 

[freezus]

it'd be nice if footstools were bound to taunt buttons like in PM
it makes footstooling feel much more intentional
also g&w having melee dtilt would be neat

 

[Bent 00]

it'd be nice if footstools were bound to taunt buttons like in PM
it makes footstooling feel much more intentional

Huh, how did I forget that one?! I was the one really pushing for the Taunts = Footstool codes by Magus & ds22 to be included.

Never did hear a solid answer as to why they didn't make it into 4.0BC... There should have been enough time to test them online. I tested them personally, they work fine. If you go to Options and configure your controls, the Taunts even show up as "____ Taunt / Footstool", so they must have been planned, at least?

 

[Neville]

Huh, how did I forget that one?! I was the one really pushing for the Taunts = Footstool codes by Magus & ds22 to be included.

Never did hear a solid answer as to why they didn't make it into 4.0BC... There should have been enough time to test them online. I tested them personally, they work fine. If you go to Options and configure your controls, the Taunts even show up as "____ Taunt / Footstool", so they must have been planned, at least?

IIRC Sammi's answer is they forgot lmao. If you look at the BC release video, at the end they even thank you.

 

[Bent 00]

IIRC Sammi's answer is they forgot lmao.

I hope that's the case! I asked about it repeatedly during the last stream, but got no answer. *shrug*

If you look at the BC release video, at the end they even thank you.

Yeah, Elliot pointed that out to me. That Special Thanks made me happy. Thanks, Elliot!

Spoiler: As an aside...

Although I'm still not sure exactly what I was Thanked for, ha... If it was just for being a dedicated forum poster, Thor should have gotten a mention too. Also, Kienamaru's name was notably absent from the Credits -- while he's no longer a Minus Dev, I think his work is still in Minus, and (IIRC) he doesn't fall under "Original Brawl Minus Staff" (he joined later). It was an accidental omission, but I figured I'd mention it once on the forum. Kien did great work... Have you checked out his "Project Unify" for Smash 4 yet?

 

[Malkasaur]

For now, I'm done with my post before. I'm just gonna make individual posts as I come up with stuff, so that it's easier to update the main post. First 2 things:
1. There's only one thing this game needs from PM, and that's DK's Dash Attack. It's sad that PM had to be the one to give DK his roll attack from the DKC games. It fits him so well. I don't know if you'd be able to make it roll off platforms, but it could be made jump cancellable at least.
2. Speaking of DK, I think he should be able to get more off of his throws. Specifically, Cargo Up Throw. In melee and in Smash 4, he is able to start a lot off of it. In Minus, you can get Cargo Up Throw to UAir only at low percents.

 

[Pin Clock]

Going through more while a dev call is happening:

Reverse fAir: HYESZ
Slow Illusion Hitbox: It does, we'll fix it
Lasers: Fox does not any hitstun on his lasers ever, especially since they're cancelable into anything, AND cancel into jump and then shoot another laser
Shine requests: It's already jump cancelable, so this change isn't really significant enough to seem necessary
Gandouken: Gandouken will be fixed and improved.
Reflect: If it were possible to just reflect the Gandouken, we could, but we can't without making it a general reflector.
Chaingrabs: We're not going to return free infinite handoffs but we'll experiment. No promises however.
Quick Draw JC: That'd make him really overpowered with the momentum conservation into jumping and attacking.
Blue Fire: This has been planned forever, so yeah
8 Jumps: We'll put some research into this
dTilt: Is there a difference between Melee and Minus?
Tap/Hold Window: Most moves have a 6/7 frame window, but uAir is hard unless you're using c Stick. Most moves have a clear window though.
uAir Tail Spike: Sounds good
Quick Attack Jump Cancel: This could be a little cool but it may also be super broken so for now a cautionary no.
Quicker Moves out of UpB: Sounds like a potentially cool tech, we'll look into it
Jab IASA: Sure I suppose
Super Wave Dash: This seems like a lot more trouble than what it's worth if we even knew how to go about it
Metroid can crawl: We'll look into it

 

[Bent 00]

Cool, I'll update the Request list shortly. Two quick questions for Pin...

Gandouken: Gandouken will be fixed and improved.

Good! Can you tell me if the size of the Gandouken's hitbox and the yellow orb's graphics will be increased?

It's safe to assume that the flame corona will be shrunk to match the hitbox -- Dr. has already done this -- but I think that the orb needs to be a bit larger to help stop low-damage foes from slipping out of Gandouken's repeating hitboxes so easily.

Reflect: If it were possible to just reflect the Gandouken, we could, but we can't without making it a general reflector.

Does that mean...
1.) The Devs are against the idea of 'Dorf being able to reflect, or
2.) The Devs aren't against the idea, but haven't been able to get a reflect for 'Dorf working well enough to merit inclusion?

If 1, I'll move the Request to REJECTED, if 2, I'll move the Request to UNDER CONSIDERATION, or leave it in PENDING...

Ganondorf's Cape reflect in PM was awesome. Float was great too.

EDIT: Request list updated.

 

[Neville]

Lasers: Fox does not any hitstun on his lasers ever, especially since they're cancelable into anything, AND cancel into jump and then shoot another laser

Someone forgot 64 was a thing. The first laser doing hitstun would also be a reference to Melee's beta when this was how Fox's lasers work. I honestly don't think Fox would be able to put out lasers fast enough to even get close to rivaling Falco and even if he can he won't be able to place them in a way that are beneficial to him I'm make a PSA so you can test it without making assumptions.

 

[Pin Clock]

1.) The Devs are against the idea of 'Dorf being able to reflect, or
2.) The Devs aren't against the idea, but haven't been able to get a reflect for 'Dorf working well enough to merit inclusion?

We're against Dorf being able to reflect. If it were possible, we would love to have him just be able to reflect Gandoukens as an easter egg, but unfortunately that is not possible.

Someone forgot 64 was a thing. The first laser doing hitstun would also be a reference to Melee's beta when this was how Fox's lasers work. I honestly don't think Fox would be able to put out lasers fast enough to even get close to rivaling Falco and even if he can he won't be able to place them in a way that are beneficial to him I'm make a PSA so you can test it without making assumptions.

64 Lasers are nowhere near as fast as Minus, and Fox wasn't able to cancel them into absolutely everything in 64.

 

[Bent 00]

Since the Request list was getting quite long, I put each category (APPROVED, PENDING, etc.) into spoiler tags. The list takes up less page space all at once now, and it made the text more readable by making the background darker.

We're against Dorf being able to reflect. If it were possible, we would love to have him just be able to reflect Gandoukens as an easter egg, but unfortunately that is not possible.

OK, I disagree, but your call... May I ask why you're against the idea?

Ganondorf and reflecting kinda go together, and he could really use the aid of a reflector against zoners.

 

[Pin Clock]

Ganondorf and reflecting kinda go together, and he could really use the aid of a reflector against zoners.

Because characters should be built around strengths and weaknesses, and having a tough time getting in and handling projectiles is one of his weaknesses.

 

[Thor]

On the record, I'd prefer Fox having silly first-laser-has-slight-hitstun lasers to silly cancel-into-anything lasers [Pin is probably right that both would be broken, but would just one? I definitely don't think so... although I obviously haven't tested it.]

Also, if I read it right, reverse knee coming back!? HYESZ!!!

But whoever suggested buffing ZSS uair... please no q_q. That thing is absurd already.

 

[Neville]

But whoever suggested buffing ZSS uair... please no q_q. That thing is absurd already.

Lmao someone actually asked for this? I think ZSS is fine rn and the devs seem to agree because she was one of the few characters that was not changed for 4.0BC. Does Falcons bair have a reverse hitbox? If not it'd be cool to do N0Ne shenanigans in Minus.

 

[Xaxidoro]

I was playing a little bit last night and I thought of some new suggestions:

Ganondorf:
- Improve the knockback on the main hitbox of his Up-Tilt. I couldn't even kill Falco with it at 60% on Final Destination. Maybe I've been playing too much Melee offhand but it was much more potentially powerful there.
- Improve the hitbox on his Back-Air; I can't hit small crouching enemies with it; again, this is probably because I was playing Melee as well.
- Decrease hitlag on his Down-Air. I'm not too strongly suggesting this because the hitlag may be intentional. If perfect-shielded or even just blocked, Down-Air is punishable.
Ike:
- Improve the hitbox on his Back-Air. I also can't hit small crouching enemies with this, even more so than Ganondorf.
Mewtwo:
- Tweak the hitbox on his Up-Smash. Even CPUs end up escaping from it; Up-Smash is also slow, so it may as well be punishable at low percentages even on hit.