Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

[Pin Clock]

FIX SINGLE PLAYER MODE: We're obviously going to do our best to do this, just like any other bug. I feel this one was in the wrong thread.

: Allow Direction changes on his final smash like Normal Blast Burn. We will research this as much as we can.
: Laser stuff - This is too limiting for Falco as lasers work differently in different match-ups. Sometimes he wants slow lasers in the air and fast lasers on the ground, and denying him that would not be right.
: UpB stuff - This change would not be too useful, as nerfing the long UpB and adding a short UpB would just have Falco pretty much only use his jumps and SideB for recovery, which would become much more optimal if UpB was nerfed.
: Stuff about his bad nAir - We will be revising his nAir and will be considering this.
: Bring back CountEruption - CountEruption lead to a very toxic playstyle that will never return. Meanwhile just bringing back the hitstun would make Counter really annoying, and having the counter with hitstun be cancelable would be just as bad as CountEruption.
: We'll consider making this, we have some ideas rolling around.
: Remove Future Sight - Future Sight is solid, I encourage experimenting more with it. It's very new, so don't dismiss it so soon!

3.3 Norfair: We have never 100% declined this, and have plenty of stage plans for 4.0!

 

[666DAMAGE]

I request that more characters use all of unused/cut dialogue from previous games dialogue. Examples include Marth jump 1, Marth up b, and all of Ike's counter lines.

 

[Dusk]

On ROB reduce the number of frames he has before he can act out of up b with an aerial(?)

 

[Bent 00]

I request that more characters use all of unused/cut dialogue from previous games dialogue. Examples include Marth jump 1, Marth up b, and all of Ike's counter lines.

You mean like how Fox got his Melee "BLIP" SFX in 4.0BC? Sounds good to me, in select cases anyway.

If Ganondorf's alt-model skins end up being Melee/OoT 'Dorf, I would hope those costumes (and only those) would feature his Melee/OoT voice.

Assuming that's possible.

 

[Thor]

FIX SINGLE PLAYER MODE: We're obviously going to do our best to do this, just like any other bug. I feel this one was in the wrong thread.

: Allow Direction changes on his final smash like Normal Blast Burn. We will research this as much as we can.
: Laser stuff - This is too limiting for Falco as lasers work differently in different match-ups. Sometimes he wants slow lasers in the air and fast lasers on the ground, and denying him that would not be right.
: UpB stuff - This change would not be too useful, as nerfing the long UpB and adding a short UpB would just have Falco pretty much only use his jumps and SideB for recovery, which would become much more optimal if UpB was nerfed.
: Stuff about his bad nAir - We will be revising his nAir and will be considering this.
: Bring back CountEruption - CountEruption lead to a very toxic playstyle that will never return. Meanwhile just bringing back the hitstun would make Counter really annoying, and having the counter with hitstun be cancelable would be just as bad as CountEruption.
: We'll consider making this, we have some ideas rolling around.
: Remove Future Sight - Future Sight is solid, I encourage experimenting more with it. It's very new, so don't dismiss it so soon!

3.3 Norfair: We have never 100% declined this, and have plenty of stage plans for 4.0!

Regarding Falco stuff:

If the point of lasers is to make lasers godlike, that's fine. It seemed many on the boards felt they were too strong [slow aerial lasers vs Ike are hilarious], hence my suggested nerf.

I figured the point of an up+b nerf was to make it that *IF* you force him to up+b, or he uses up+b early, it's less difficult to punish. As of right now, the optimal strategy is still definitely to use only jumps and side+b because of their flexibility and safety [unless directly below ledge, which this nerf wouldn't really alter]... up+b being better or worse doesn't change that, it just changes the reward for edgeguarding him enough to force him into an up+b [and also makes his meteor cancels worse if a distance nerf occurred, although I didn't suggest one].

The rest of this sounds quite exciting. I found CounterEruption hilarious, but admittedly somewhat stupid [once OHKO'd King Dedede from the center of Hyrule Castle thanks to countering an fsmash with eruption stored], so I fully respect not restoring the move... perhaps Counter could be made grab cancellable, if people wanted grab combos from it?

 

[Bent 00]

OK, I think I've added everything except these:

all the PM alts that aren't in BM except Dr. Mario (unless they replace the existing BM alts, in that case, no)

I didn't add this Request because, IIRC, the Minus Devs want to avoid Copy & Pasting too much content from Project M. Besides, I'm sure they already have ideas for the rest of the missing new costumes, which they think will be a better fit for Minus. I do wish Mr. L had made it in, though!

Dr. Mario

Unless the Devs tell me they would actually consider making new characters just because they were Requested by our community, I'm going to Ignore all Requests for new characters -- even for clones, like Dr. Mario. This is because making new characters (even clones) specifically for Minus is very hard, time-consuming work, and I suspect that, this close to the end of Minus, the devs already know who is getting in and who isn't. Any Requests made by our community most likely will not make a difference at his point.

Also, everyone: If you see a Request that you would like me to add a POLL for, just ask. POLLs allow you to voice your approval or disapproval of existing Requests, without cluttering up the post with anti-Requests.

If the point of lasers is to make lasers godlike, that's fine. It seemed many on the boards felt they were too strong [slow aerial lasers vs Ike are hilarious], hence my suggested nerf.

Personally, I still think slow lasers should be cut entirely. The words "slow" and "laser" should not be mixed. Plus, they're obnoxious IMO.

Yes, fast lasers lead to Laser Locks, but at least they make sense from a design perspective. "Slow" lasers... Pff...

 

[666DAMAGE]

You mean like how Fox got his Melee "BLIP" SFX in 4.0BC? Sounds good to me, in select cases anyway.

If Ganondorf's alt-model skins end up being Melee/OoT 'Dorf, I would hope those costumes (and only those) would feature his Melee/OoT voice.

Assuming that's possible.

Nah, its more like using every part of the buffalo. Like using all the unused character voice clips and ones cut from 64/melee to brawl.

 

[Bent 00]

Nah, its more like using every part of the buffalo. Like using all the unused character voice clips and ones cut from 64/melee to brawl.

So a better example of what you're Requesting would be finding a use for Captain Falcon's quiet "Yess"? You want to find unused Brawl SFX and find a use for them? ...Are there a bunch of unused SFX in the Brawl SFX library? I haven't looked into it much myself.

 

[Darxmarx]

If Ganondorf's alt-model skins end up being Melee/OoT 'Dorf, I would hope those costumes (and only those) would feature his Melee/OoT voice.

Assuming that's possible.

Fairly certain that is in fact possible via both sfx and PSA editing. You use the PSA to assign certain sfx files to specific costumes. I might be wrong on that, though.

 

[Bent 00]

Just want to say Thanks to the Minus Devs for addressing the current Community Requests in the Dev Chat yesterday.

I hope this thread is useful to both the Devs and all Minus fans, keeping requests archived and organized into one easy-to-read place.

I'll update the second post as we go, when I can. Devs, you're free to update it too, of course! Just keep the same format. If any of you do edit the second post, I suggest using the "BB Code Editor" (the little "wrench over a page" icon on the top-right of the text window) to make your changes, because the Rich Text mode seems to add a lot of unnecessary COLOR tags.

Good responses from Pin... Only one I'll comment on is this one:

: Stuff about his bad nAir - We will be revising his nAir and will be considering this.

I agree that 'Dorf is currently has too many powerful moves that hit 1-3 times and don't lead into anything else. He could certainly benefit from some added combo ability. Giving him back the Energy Ball Gandouken helped in that department -- although the hitbox is too small now -- and a few more quick, combo-oriented moves would be welcome too. That said, I actually like 'Dorf's current N-Air... I hope you'll find some way to keep it in. Perhaps as the "hold" part of a tap/hold setup?

 

[666DAMAGE]

So a better example of what you're Requesting would be finding a use for Captain Falcon's quiet "Yess"? You want to find unused Brawl SFX and find a use for them? ...Are there a bunch of unused SFX in the Brawl SFX library? I haven't looked into it much myself.

Exactly this + if they reused a voice from melee (example: Marth) to get the lines they cut (examples: jump 1 vocalization and up b vocalization)

Fox getting Melee's reflector sound was a special edge case because he's supposed to be Melee Fox.

 

[Bent 00]

Here are a couple of Requests from my first two posts in the 4.0BC Ganondorf Feedback Thread:

I'm glad "Energy Ball" Gandouken is getting another chance, but two problems:

First, the orb's hitbox is too small. It has a much harder time "catching" opponents now, and foes with low damage can slip out of it easily (towards 'Dorf). Check these pictures.

Second, I said that if we reverted Gandouken back to 3.Q, 'Dorf should be able to reflect the projectile -- since that ability was not added, Energy Ball is a major step down against characters who can reflect (Dark Wave 'Douken could not be reflected back at 'Dorf). If we keep the Energy Ball Gandouken, 'Dorf should be able to reflect it with something... Maybe Jab, or a Neutral B windup cancel into Cape? A+B could be the input. I'm working on a unique solution of my own, but it's not quite ready yet. It'll show up as a separate request later.

---

This next part is not officially Request-material (yet), only me thinking out loud:

On a related note: I'm happy that Energy Ball Gandouken is still safe to use offstage, thanks to the midair momentum stall and partial endlag cancel. Meanwhile, however, Warlock Punch is still suicidal offstage unless you land it. It's good to see at least half of 'Dorf's Neutral B is usable offstage again... but this makes me wish the whole move was safe.

Did I ever suggest that we simply make AERIAL Warlock Punch have the same midair "stall" that Gandouken has, at the price of reducing the damage from 666% to 66% or even vBrawl's 32%? That would make the move non-suicidal offstage, at least, and it would still KO except at low percents. Personally, I'm thinking that both WP and 'Douken should have a bit of "pop-up" and "momentum stall" similar to the way Ryu's aerial Hadouken pops him up and stalls him in Smash 4. The current amount of momentum stall on 'Douken is much better than it was in 4.0b, but it feels... floaty. Like Ganondorf just threw a punch while sinking in some water. I'd prefer to have the momentum stall work together with the pop-up to emphasize the power of the punch, while disregarding gravity. Sticky Friction!

 

[Thor]

I know we're not supposed to do anti-requests, but I *really* disagree that Falcon and Fox should be slowed down [it's called ducking mid-run and dash-dancing if it's "too committal", as well as walking]. Should that be put to a poll or something?

[Note: If they were only slowed to Melee runspeeds that would probably be okay, but definitely not beyond that, and imo they should still be faster than that (Assuming they already are, it certainly seems that way...).]

 

[Bent 00]

I know we're not supposed to do anti-requests, but I *really* disagree that Falcon and Fox should be slowed down [it's called ducking mid-run and dash-dancing if it's "too committal", as well as walking]. Should that be put to a poll or something?

[Note: If they were only slowed to Melee runspeeds that would probably be okay, but definitely not beyond that, and imo they should still be faster than that (Assuming they already are, it certainly seems that way...).]

I'll put a POLL up for that one. Falcon doesn't feel too fast to me, but I haven't spent much time playing 4.0BC at full speed yet.

I agree that it's too early to call for a speed reduction for the Captain. Won't comment on Fox right now, since I don't play him.

Also, it's OK to post about Requests you don't like. Feel free to explain why you don't like a given Request, and I can post a POLL for it. If we encounter a particularly divisive Request that the Devs are neutral to, and the community is split on, we can have a more in-depth discussion of it.

POLLs added for Falcon's and Fox's "Speed Nerf" Requests:

 

[ALLCAPS]

Things for Samus I want from importance to non importance
Samus should be able to charge in midair honestly the fact this isn't even in the mod yet baffles me.
Actually make Samus utilt meteor grounded opponents like it does in melee and sm4sh the fact it doesn't is weird and kinda hurts her
Samus fair doesn't really connect that well most foes usually just fall out of it leaving you open for no reason if there's a way to make it connect better please do make connect better.
Samus should be able to super wavedash, she should also be able to crawl.

 

[Brawl Minus VS]

Not sure if anyone else is with me on this, but it's just a slight change. Any chance we could get the Ike-copter to go a little bit higher, or at least give you a bit of elevation once you're falling? When used after jumping, it's fine. It'll give a moderate boost upward. However, currently, when falling and using an Up-air, he'll simply slow his falling speed, not give himself a slight boost. If this is possible, it'd be handy to have.

 

[Bent 00]

Samus should be able to [...] crawl.

Spoiler

Because Project M did it first, and Minus doesn't want to copy it too much.

Updating the list of Requests now...

 

[Neville]

Spoiler

Because Project M did it first, and Minus doesn't want to copy it too much.

Updating the list of Requests now...

Where did you find this picture? Lmao

 

[Bent 00]

Where did you find this picture? Lmao

http://smaaaash.net/y/

 

[Pin Clock]

I should note, please do not place requests related to future alternate costumes, since our plans for those are already final.

 

[Bent 00]

I should note, please do not place requests related to future alternate costumes, since our plans for those are already final.

Should I file these existing Costume Requests under "APPROVED", "UNDER CONSIDERATION", "REJECTED", or "IGNORED"?

---
I really hope more characters get new costumes, not just recolors. I feel new costumes give a new feel to the character. [Malkasaur]
---
I want Golden Captain Falcon [one was made to look like Smash 4 Golden Falcon] as a skin in the next edition. [Thor]
---
Fox should have a Melee Costume. [Malkasaur]
---
One thing I really want is for SJS's ZSS Rebuild to be put in officially. [Malkasaur]
---

 

[666DAMAGE]

I think every request should get a poll. Also visual examples when possible/applicable.

Also great news "Make Samus' Up-Tilt (the axe kick) meteor grounded opponents like it does in Melee and Smash 4. [ALLCAPS]" was approved. Keep these coming.

 

[Pin Clock]

STAGE LIST: This will be updated next tournament
HOO-HAH: Gonna respect Hungrybox here. (No)
Choosing lasers before match start: This is a very interesting idea, and we'll pursue this.
Side B stuff: We tried fixing this before but it didn't work. We can try it again.
Ike Copter: We will not be buffing Ike Copter because it can already go past the top blast zone, which is extremely dangerous for someone with his sheer power.
Counter grab: Stun would still be OP or annoying from Ike's counter. There isn't really a reason for a grab cancel on this either.
Charge Shot: We would do this if non-fully charged shots didn't have a use in Minus. in the air is an easy way to single tap launch those.
uTilt: Yeah we can do that
fAir: You gotta follow your foe with it, it isn't a free combo.
: Speed: We will not be reducing their speeds

Should I file these existing Costume Requests under "APPROVED", "UNDER CONSIDERATION", "REJECTED", or "IGNORED"?
---

I mean we can still take requests for costumes but we already have plans for most of them.

 

[Sammi-husky]

Basically, you are more than welcome to request costumes still. But don't be surprised if they don't get in, because we do have a lot planned already! Request away~

 

[Bent 00]

I think every request should get a poll. Also visual examples when possible/applicable.

I agree with you regarding the inclusion of visual examples (plus links to more in-depth explanations and info behind Requests), but adding POLLs to every single Request would be a lot of unnecessary work for the list updater (me). I'll continue adding POLLs when asked to, and when I think a Request is controversial enough to need one. You're welcome to add them if you like, assuming you can edit others' posts.

I should note, please do not place requests related to future alternate costumes, since our plans for those are already final.

I mean we can still take requests for costumes but we already have plans for most of them.

Err, that first posts suggests ALL costumes are confirmed, while the second one suggests only most of them are... I'm just going to Ignore costume Requests if you already have plans for the entire roster. How about this: If there are any specific fighters you'll consider costume Requests for, let me know and I'll include those in the list. Might as well prevent fans from wasting their time Requesting new costumes for fighters whose outfits are already finalized.

Here's what I've got right now:

Spoiler: Which Costumes Are/Are Not Finalized

==============
Finalized Costumes (do not Request costumes for these)
==============

----------------------------------
Already included in 4.0BC:
----------------------------------

Alternate Models:

Ike
Link
Lucas
Luigi
Marth
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Ness
Pichu
Pit
Roy
Sheik
Snake
Sonic
Waluigi
Wario
Zelda

Mostly Recolors:

Bowser
Charizard
Ivysaur
Kirby
Lucario
Mr. Game and Watch
Squirtle
Yoshi

-------------------------------------
Finalized for a future release:
-------------------------------------

Alternate Models:

None confirmed yet...

Mostly Recolors:

None confirmed yet...

=============
Nothing Finalized (Request away)
=============

None confirmed yet...

============
Status Unknown
============

Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Mario
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Samus
Toon Link
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus

Thanks to Darxmarx for updated list info.

Thanks for addressing those other requests. Charging Samus' Charge Shot in the air could have worked, though -- perhaps as a tap/hold input. Didn't Project M allow this?

EDIT: Yes, Samus could charge her Charge Shot in the air in Project M, as well as Morph Ball crawl, Super Wavedash, and switch Beam types.