Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bent 00, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. MelonKeepR

    MelonKeepR Active Member

    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It would also allow for more infinites, though.
     
  2. EpicNonBread

    EpicNonBread Malfunctioning Machinery Playtester Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Main:
    Pretty sure situations like these are exactly what they are trying to avoid, and I agree with it. I think there should always be an opportunity for the person being combo'd to escape, and techable footstools does just that.
     
  3. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Messages:
    262
    Main:
    So Doq just posted a copy of Minus 2.X.6, and it reminded me how much more fun Ike was back then. And the reason he was so fun was because he had so much more mobility.



    In 4.0BC, uair is worth using for recovery, but only barely. Ike gains a little extra height, but by the time the endlag is over, he's barely any higher than he would have been if he'd just jumped.

    I understand why this is, of course. Being able to chase enemies off the top of the screen is powerful, even with a weaker move. Ike's uair hits hard! It's way stronger than Luigi and Waluigi's up specials, with the added benefit that Ike doesn't become helpless afterwards. The 2.X.6 version just wasn't balanced.

    Broadly speaking, the dev team had two options for nerfing the move:
    1. Nerf how high the move goes.
    2. Nerf the move's power.
    The dev team chose option 1, and I strongly disagree with that choice. The move was fun because of how high it went, and how fast. It was fun to have that extra movement option, even though (or perhaps because) it was a fairly big commitment. On the other hand, the move's power didn't make it especially fun. And yet they removed the fun part of the move in order to keep the boring part.

    That's why I'd like to propose a few ways to make the move fun again, that I think would improve Ike's recovery and make him more fun to play, without giving him super-easy off-the-top kills.

    Request: Buff the height Ike gains from uair, but remove most of the knockback. (Don't remove the knockback from the non-rising version.)

    This way, Ike can use the rising version for mobility, and the regular one for kill power. That way, he'd have a reason to use the regular version. Also, it would let him do a form of pillaring: use uair to put the opponent in hitstun and get above them, then dair to send them down and create a tech chase situation.​

    Request: If Ike is moving downwards, make uair halt his fall.

    This was previously dismissed on account of being impossible, but it clearly isn't.​

    Request: Allow Ike to cancel uair into Aether.

    The worst thing about the current version of uair is that Ike starts to fall during the endlag, and you just have to sit there and watch as the stage gets farther and farther away. Canceling into Aether wouldn't affect the move's kill power (much), but it would give Ike a better chance of recovery.​

    I'd prefer the first option here, but if the dev team wants to keep re-balancing to a minimum, then the other two will suffice.
     
    Bent 00, EpicNonBread and Dusk like this.
  4. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    My House
    B- FC:
    3957-3720-8220
    Main:
    Small request.
    When Mario/Luigi does footstool, have the goomba stomp SFX.
    It might already be there and I don't hear it, but this would give the game a bit more personality.
     
  5. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Messages:
    262
    Main:
    Wolf says the full quote during his entrance animation. And yes, they could easily fix this by editing the sound file, but then Wolf couldn't say the full quote under any circumstances.

    It would be nice if he included "Star Fox" when facing Fox or Falco, but my guess is that that's too hard to implement.
     
  6. fantasyDinosaur

    fantasyDinosaur only human Playtester

    Messages:
    39
    Main:
    why is ganon's bury on side b techable but bowser's isn't?

    could we make them both techable/untechable?
     
    Thor and Dusk like this.
  7. EpicNonBread

    EpicNonBread Malfunctioning Machinery Playtester Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Main:
    I believe the reason this was done was because it seemed like Bowser needs the confirm from the grab more than Ganon does. But I do agree that both should be techable.
     
    Mimsy and Dusk like this.
  8. Neville

    Neville GG M8s Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    1,064
    Location:
    Highland Village, Texas
    Main:
    Because we don't want infinites in the game.
     
  9. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,803
    Location:
    Minnesota (for summer), UIUC (for school year)
    B- FC:
    4986-6645-6355
    My only input on footstools:

    People have kind of cool suggestions [I think], but these all sound like huge changes that would be difficult to code. I think they're all incredibly minor relative to what I'll call core gameplay [how the characters fight neutral, frame data that can make or break a character, etc.], which is why I'd suggest leaving footstools alone unless the suggestions aren't that difficult to implement [I know there have been cool ideas for tethers in the past, but they're stupidly difficult to code... *glares at Samus*]
     
  10. Rejnka

    Rejnka Certified All-Natural Pinkan Berry Saleschu

    Messages:
    26
    Main:
    So, as a way to merge both the old Inhale grab cancel and allowing Abilities to be used more often, what if a copied opponent went into Kirby's standard grab afterwards (if used on the ground)?
     
  11. MelonKeepR

    MelonKeepR Active Member

    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I don't see why Kirby should get a free throw alongside the copy ability.
     
  12. coolanybody

    coolanybody The player worse than a CPU

    Messages:
    5
    Main:
    Kirby: Give a larger, disjointed hitbox for UTilt (ala SSB64) because disjoints are always fun
     
  13. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Messages:
    262
    Main:
    I like this one. Minus includes references to previous games, and that hitbox was amazing enough to be worth referencing.



    Kirby_Up_Tilt_Hitbox_Smash_64.gif
     
    Rejnka likes this.
  14. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    My House
    B- FC:
    3957-3720-8220
    Main:
    Pit:
    Basically all of his muti-hit moves (except Side-B), have a ton of hits that don't link into each other well. Decrease the amount of hits they do and make them link together better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  15. _DX_

    _DX_ Technical Wolf Main

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Final Destination
    Main:
    :link::skywardlink:- Faster aerial movement, Bombs paralyzes player for combos
     
  16. ThePwnzr

    ThePwnzr THE Frame Data Guy Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Main:
    :pikachu: - Have the hits of f-air link more reliably into the final hit. I don't mind the combo shenanigans that comes with the current f-air, but there's times when I'd like to use the final hit instead of "combo-ability". In fact, it could potentially open more options for combos, since it'd probably be a strong Autolink (361) angle. Think Falco nair, potentially. Likely much, much weaker, but something like it.
     
  17. EpicNonBread

    EpicNonBread Malfunctioning Machinery Playtester Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Main:
    This isn't necessary. Pikachu has the aerial mobility to be able to follow their SDI (in most cases) until the final hit.
     
  18. Mimsy

    Mimsy Netplayer Playtester

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    North Caarolina
    Main:
    Here you go
     

    Attached Files:

  19. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Messages:
    262
    Main:
    Charizard's Fly only sweetspots early on in the move. After about halfway through, it becomes impossible to sweetspot. (Fun fact: it used to sweetspot towards the end but not at the start.)
     
    Mimsy likes this.
  20. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

    Messages:
    236
    B- FC:
    3570-8243-0813
    Main:
    some of those changes are already accepted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  21. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

    Messages:
    236
    B- FC:
    3570-8243-0813
    Main:
    That's my suggestion, I want credit :mad:
     
  22. Mimsy

    Mimsy Netplayer Playtester

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    North Caarolina
    Main:
    i know
     
    Kymaera K1ng, Dusk and EpicNonBread like this.
  23. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

    Messages:
    236
    B- FC:
    3570-8243-0813
    Main:
    ok
     
    Dusk and Ludacario like this.
  24. EpicNonBread

    EpicNonBread Malfunctioning Machinery Playtester Minus Backroom

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Main:
  25. Rejnka

    Rejnka Certified All-Natural Pinkan Berry Saleschu

    Messages:
    26
    Main:
    Well, why not? It just compensates for a trick that was removed while ending the reason that trick was removed in the first place. Kirby could use a buff anyways.
     

Share This Page