MelonKeepR
Well-Known Member
It would also allow for more infinites, though.
Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC
- Thread starter Bent 00
- Start date
It would also allow for more infinites, though.
Pretty sure situations like these are exactly what they are trying to avoid, and I agree with it. I think there should always be an opportunity for the person being combo'd to escape, and techable footstools does just that.
player_03
P3
So Doq just posted a copy of Minus 2.X.6, and it reminded me how much more fun Ike was back then. And the reason he was so fun was because he had so much more mobility.
In 4.0BC, uair is worth using for recovery, but only barely. Ike gains a little extra height, but by the time the endlag is over, he's barely any higher than he would have been if he'd just jumped.
I understand why this is, of course. Being able to chase enemies off the top of the screen is powerful, even with a weaker move. Ike's uair hits hard! It's way stronger than Luigi and Waluigi's up specials, with the added benefit that Ike doesn't become helpless afterwards. The 2.X.6 version just wasn't balanced.
Broadly speaking, the dev team had two options for nerfing the move:
That's why I'd like to propose a few ways to make the move fun again, that I think would improve Ike's recovery and make him more fun to play, without giving him super-easy off-the-top kills.
In 4.0BC, uair is worth using for recovery, but only barely. Ike gains a little extra height, but by the time the endlag is over, he's barely any higher than he would have been if he'd just jumped.
I understand why this is, of course. Being able to chase enemies off the top of the screen is powerful, even with a weaker move. Ike's uair hits hard! It's way stronger than Luigi and Waluigi's up specials, with the added benefit that Ike doesn't become helpless afterwards. The 2.X.6 version just wasn't balanced.
Broadly speaking, the dev team had two options for nerfing the move:
- Nerf how high the move goes.
- Nerf the move's power.
That's why I'd like to propose a few ways to make the move fun again, that I think would improve Ike's recovery and make him more fun to play, without giving him super-easy off-the-top kills.
Request: Buff the height Ike gains from uair, but remove most of the knockback. (Don't remove the knockback from the non-rising version.)
Request: If Ike is moving downwards, make uair halt his fall.
Request: Allow Ike to cancel uair into Aether.
I'd prefer the first option here, but if the dev team wants to keep re-balancing to a minimum, then the other two will suffice.
This way, Ike can use the rising version for mobility, and the regular one for kill power. That way, he'd have a reason to use the regular version. Also, it would let him do a form of pillaring: use uair to put the opponent in hitstun and get above them, then dair to send them down and create a tech chase situation.
Request: If Ike is moving downwards, make uair halt his fall.
This was previously dismissed on account of being impossible, but it clearly isn't.
Request: Allow Ike to cancel uair into Aether.
The worst thing about the current version of uair is that Ike starts to fall during the endlag, and you just have to sit there and watch as the stage gets farther and farther away. Canceling into Aether wouldn't affect the move's kill power (much), but it would give Ike a better chance of recovery.
I'd prefer the first option here, but if the dev team wants to keep re-balancing to a minimum, then the other two will suffice.
player_03
P3
Wolf says the full quote during his entrance animation. And yes, they could easily fix this by editing the sound file, but then Wolf couldn't say the full quote under any circumstances.
It would be nice if he included "Star Fox" when facing Fox or Falco, but my guess is that that's too hard to implement.
why is ganon's bury on side b techable but bowser's isn't?
could we make them both techable/untechable?
could we make them both techable/untechable?
I believe the reason this was done was because it seemed like Bowser needs the confirm from the grab more than Ganon does. But I do agree that both should be techable.
Because we don't want infinites in the game.
Thor
Well-Known Member
My only input on footstools:
People have kind of cool suggestions [I think], but these all sound like huge changes that would be difficult to code. I think they're all incredibly minor relative to what I'll call core gameplay [how the characters fight neutral, frame data that can make or break a character, etc.], which is why I'd suggest leaving footstools alone unless the suggestions aren't that difficult to implement [I know there have been cool ideas for tethers in the past, but they're stupidly difficult to code... *glares at Samus*]
People have kind of cool suggestions [I think], but these all sound like huge changes that would be difficult to code. I think they're all incredibly minor relative to what I'll call core gameplay [how the characters fight neutral, frame data that can make or break a character, etc.], which is why I'd suggest leaving footstools alone unless the suggestions aren't that difficult to implement [I know there have been cool ideas for tethers in the past, but they're stupidly difficult to code... *glares at Samus*]
MelonKeepR
Well-Known Member
I don't see why Kirby should get a free throw alongside the copy ability.
coolanybody
The player worse than a CPU
Kirby: Give a larger, disjointed hitbox for UTilt (ala SSB64) because disjoints are always fun
player_03
P3
I like this one. Minus includes references to previous games, and that hitbox was amazing enough to be worth referencing.
- Faster aerial movement, Bombs paralyzes player for combos
- Have the hits of f-air link more reliably into the final hit. I don't mind the combo shenanigans that comes with the current f-air, but there's times when I'd like to use the final hit instead of "combo-ability". In fact, it could potentially open more options for combos, since it'd probably be a strong Autolink (361) angle. Think Falco nair, potentially. Likely much, much weaker, but something like it.
This isn't necessary. Pikachu has the aerial mobility to be able to follow their SDI (in most cases) until the final hit.
player_03
P3
Charizard's Fly only sweetspots early on in the move. After about halfway through, it becomes impossible to sweetspot. (Fun fact: it used to sweetspot towards the end but not at the start.)
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
some of those changes are already accepted.
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Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
That's my suggestion, I want credit
i know
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
ok
Rejnka
Certified All-Natural Pinkan Berry Saleschu
Well, why not? It just compensates for a trick that was removed while ending the reason that trick was removed in the first place. Kirby could use a buff anyways.