Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

Pin Clock

Project Leader
Minus Backroom
I still don't think I fully understand how this thread works as far as if you're reading through all the suggestions or if Bent is? Not sure, but there's still a good amount of requests and ideas that have been left unaddressed.
Bent goes through the thread putting requests on a list and every time he updates it I give it another run through and shave off some. Problem is this is like a hydra and the more I shave off the more come in, so it feels like it will never get done but hey it's Minus I guess
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
I still don't think I fully understand how this thread works as far as if you're reading through all the suggestions or if Bent is? Not sure, but there's still a good amount of requests and ideas that have been left unaddressed.
The way it works is I read through everything posted in this thread, and add anything that sounds like a reasonable Request to the list.

To be clear, I'm not a Dev. I started doing this to help organize community suggestions for Minus into one place.

The Devs check the Request list from time to time and send Requests to "Approved", "Under Consideration", or "Rejected". Generally, only unreasonable or exceedingly silly / useless / inappropriate Requests end up in "Ignored".

There's "still a good amount of Requests and ideas that have been left unaddressed"? I've got the Request list up to date as of post #601 in this thread. Pretty sure I haven't missed any up to that point, and I (probably) won't miss any as I continue updating the list. I can't keep this list updated in real time because I work so much, so I typically run up to a week or two behind.

If anyone knows of a Request that I've missed BEFORE a point where I say "Request list updated up to this point", let me know, and I'll add it.

The best way to make sure the Devs See a Request, Remember it, and eventually Address it is to post it in this thread.

Please be patient with me adding your Requests to the list, and with the Devs responding to them.

EDIT: Gah, Pin beat me to it.

Anyway, I'm working on updating the Request list. There's a lot to read lately.
 
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Spitzy

New Member
I would like to see Jigglypuff's shield be cancelable into rest.

Jiggs does not have a good out of shield game. Yes, she has jump-nair, and yes she has a grab, and yes she has jump-rest. However, letting shield immediately cancel into rest would give attackers something to think about when attacking jiggs' enormous shield. Imo, jump rest is too slow, and jump nair is very predictable.
 

memahalo

Member
Character: Ivysuar
Request: Make side b's sweetspot a little easier to hit
Reason: It is EXTREMELY hard to hit the sweet spot, maybe add 1 or 2 extra frames to the sweetspot?

Character: Ivysuar again
Request: Have Up-b sweet spot be a little more rewarding? Maybe more knockback or damage?
Reason: If I remember correctly, the sweet spot does around 7% more damage? Also, its knockback is only increased a little. I think that one of those should be brought up a little just so its viable as an attack instead of only a recovery.

Character: Squirtle
Request: Decrease neutral-b startup time
Reason: It makes the freeze part of it if you use watergun without charging more useful, currently if takes a very long time to be able to use it and the reward if you hit them isn't big enough to warrant its current start-up time. Regular water gun would be fine with the current startup lag but because the non-charged variant is short ranged, I think think it needs to be a little faster.
TL;DR non-charged water gun = takes long time to use, short ranged, and little damage

Character: Squirtle
Request: Decrease side-b endlag
Reason: Sure it does a good amount of damage if it hits, but if it doesn't so its just a little bit safer? Or another reason is so if you side-b off the stage, your more likely to recover. I kinda think that the endlag should still be there to a certain extent so if you stop by your opponent, you're still punished, but short enough that if you stop it far enough away (1/3 of final destination seems like a good length) your safe unless the opponent is pretty fast

Also, buff waluigi's grounded down-b -> (charged) b. Its pretty weak (IMO) and take a long time

Sorry, not sure how to use the spoiler thing
 
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If I remember correctly, the sweet spot does around 7% more damage?

In the air - which is where this move is meant to be used - the sourspot deals 11% and the sweetspot deals 12%. On the ground, the sourspot deals 7-10% depending on which part of the vine hits. The sweetspot still deals 12%.

Also, its knockback is only increased a little.

Actually, this is enough to make a difference. Vine Whip is one of those moves that's meant to push opponents "just a little farther" into the side blastzone. It's like Squirtle's up-B in that respect, except harder to land and safer on a whiff. A small amount of knockback translates to a significant amount of killing power.

The thing that bugs me is, Vine Whip is so good at gaining height that Ivysaur can chase you from onstage to the top blastzone. But... Vine Whip sends opponents almost directly sideways, so you aren't going to get kills that way.

Even the sweetspot sends opponents sideways. Why? If Ivysaur manages to chase someone up to the top blastzone and land the sweetspot, I feel like they deserve the kill.

I know Ivysaur can jump -> Vine Whip -> midair jump -> uair. However, that's a bit on the slow side, and it'll usually require a read. Personally, I'd like to have both options, to cover different situations depending on the opponent's DI. If your opponent DIs sideways, go for the sweetspot. If your opponent goes straight up, you aren't going to land the sweetspot, but you have a better chance of landing uair.

tl;dr: allow the sweet spot of Vine Whip to kill off the top.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Why isn't lavaville legal?

I could go on and on about this, but... I don't think Gold_TSG needs the revival of "Thor posts" [when Lucis has me covered anyway :^)].

tl;dr - it's a completely redundant layout to Smashville [if you want to ban FD + moving platform, you have to ban BOTH], and it has a hazard that isn't exactly random, but can induce some wins people might call unearned [or combos that might make for great montages but can be extremely stupid to deal with].

And more to the point, when we have so many great hazardless stages, adding ones with hazards feels goofy, and if you're trying to introduce the game to other smashers, having that stage in particular legal (along with Final Frustration being another huge offender) makes us all look batcrap crazy [as if some of the changes to certain characters didn't do a fine and dandy job of that anyway].
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
memahalo: To Spoiler tag a selection of text, simply add [ SPOILER ] to the start and [ /SPOILER ] (without the spaces) at the end.

BTW, thanks for posting your Requests in that format. If everyone would do that, it would be easier for me to update the list.
 

Kboomers1918

Mayor of Capetown, Rhode Island
Minus Backroom
I could go on and on about this, but

Please don't ever take anything i say seriously, nothing important comes from me, so you can save your keyboard typing for a more deserving person. Thank you and good day
 

Lucis Perficio

Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
My main request is that the changelist include ALL changes between the previous version and the next.

(Still peeved Ike lost stuff between 3.Q and 4.0b that weren't included in the change log, or lost as a result of the removal of NSM, in combination with the fact that I've addressed this countless times without anyone actually responding to the crux of the issue, but the symptoms of it.)
 

EpicNonBread

Malfunctioning Machinery
Minus Backroom
Playtester
My main request is that the changelist include ALL changes between the previous version and the next.

A regulated and up to date source for data for all versions in regards to changelogs and character attributes of those versions would be nice to have. They're already working on revamping the entire Minus website, maybe a proper place for all of that information would be there?
 

Ludacario

Resident of the blastzone
Playtester
Alright boys and other boys, here's my doc on things I personally think should be changed. Before you read, keep in mind I'm pretty damn trash at this game, and can't play most chars for crap. I'm just a scrub who wants all my friends characters to get nerfed. I tried to include buffs and nerfs for chars, so it isn't just "make bad."

Also Bent, you don't have to put anything on here as an "official" request. There's a lot. If the devs read it and want to respond, then that's on them. You do enough for this massive thread. Thanks for all the work man.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKCLUB5FK92XzHToQePcpBvLbDEqxXxB0wIFBI5HmQc/edit?usp=sharing

Hopefully I did the link thing right.
If you can somehow edit it please don't D:
 

Dusk

Equals Trash
Playtester
Alright boys and other boys, here's my doc on things I personally think should be changed. Before you read, keep in mind I'm pretty damn trash at this game, and can't play most chars for crap. I'm just a scrub who wants all my friends characters to get nerfed. I tried to include buffs and nerfs for chars, so it isn't just "make bad."

Also Bent, you don't have to put anything on here as an "official" request. There's a lot. If the devs read it and want to respond, then that's on them. You do enough for this massive thread. Thanks for all the work man.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKCLUB5FK92XzHToQePcpBvLbDEqxXxB0wIFBI5HmQc/edit?usp=sharing

Hopefully I did the link thing right.
If you can somehow edit it please don't D:
yay good for you luda! you said words!
 
  • I approve of decreased shieldstun, especially on a perfect shield.
  • They already said no more wavedashes or pseudo-wavedashes.
  • They already confirmed that Yoshi will be able to jump out of shield.
  • I approve of fixing Toon Link's jab.
  • I approve of nerfing Mewtwo's uair.
  • They already confirmed that Pichu's size will be increased.
  • Ivysaur isn't terrible, but as I mentioned in my previous post, I wouldn't mind a buff here.
  • They already have plans for Double Team.
  • I strongly approve of any and all Drill Rush nerfs.
  • I think they confirmed that they're doing something about Fox's dash attack.
  • They confirmed that they're nerfing Falco's fair and recovery.
  • They confirmed that they're removing the armor on Fire Wolf.
  • They confirmed that Ice Block will be nerfed.
 

Ludacario

Resident of the blastzone
Playtester
  • I approve of decreased shieldstun, especially on a perfect shield.
  • They already said no more wavedashes or pseudo-wavedashes.
  • They already confirmed that Yoshi will be able to jump out of shield.
  • I approve of fixing Toon Link's jab.
  • I approve of nerfing Mewtwo's uair.
  • They already confirmed that Pichu's size will be increased.
  • Ivysaur isn't terrible, but as I mentioned in my previous post, I wouldn't mind a buff here.
  • They already have plans for Double Team.
  • I strongly approve of any and all Drill Rush nerfs.
  • I think they confirmed that they're doing something about Fox's dash attack.
  • They confirmed that they're nerfing Falco's fair and recovery.
  • They confirmed that they're removing the armor on Fire Wolf.
  • They confirmed that Ice Block will be nerfed.

I know some are on the list already, but it was just my opinions on what I wanted changed. I realize that several requests are already under consideration.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Powershielding reflecting things takes away most of the value of actually using a reflector. it also can take away the value of actually catching items.

You can shield DI firebrand to avoid the grab. His air game is also stronger because of firebrand mixups. FLUDD is fine as is.

Luigi would be overall buffed a ton with higher airspeed. I don't think fireballs need to be nerfed, but increased airspeed would be quite scary.

If you reduce shieldstun, this fixes the Peach fair thing anyway. Do you want her fair to be totally unsafe on block or something??? Up+B glitch is already getting fixed.

The jump recovery thing is only out of hitstun in Smash 4 for Diddy (and I believe Brawl as well). I'm not sure if it works in Brawl Minus, but it's not really needed in this game. Having to stand still for tilts is part of why a lot of Minus tilts are safer, because many characters are extremely fast. Turnaround being faster doesn't affect his pivots at all [a pivot is a 1-frame input] and his RAR is then less lenient.

Sounds like Wario salt. Not really concerned with the character myself lol.

Unless you mean autocancel in between hits of Link's fair, or a faster autocancel window, I don't see this actually doing anything. And he can already throw stuff pretty well (not that the move couldn't stand to be a bit safer). I have no idea what the dev team wants from his bair though lol.

The Zelda side+b traction thing sounds useful, not sure why it'd be removed...

Sheik's needles are whacky. No opinion here.

>Not mentioning aerial Warlock Punch >: (

I use Tink's jab as an anti-air... but if it was nerfed in some patch that's pretty funny [since I seem to recall it being perfectly serviceable in the past]. Someone else already mentioned it.

Samus dtilt hits a rather small space and a lot of characters try to approach her with aerials anyway. The move is fine [it used to be a better move lol]. Not sure what the second part is actually referring to [an autocancel window or what?]

Apparently Pika can already tail spike? I'm not sure though, and his uair juggles into other aerials are already good options.

Sing is like, kind of bad. It's an okay tech chase sometimes, but Jigglypuff has slow ground speed so her tech chase game is less solid, and most of the time you should be trying to air-to-air with her attempt to land to avoid this in the first place. I think they're adjusting it anyway.

I don't see the problem with Mewtwo's meteor cancel window, seems like it's similar to what Falco's was for a long time. No opinion on the rest, don't play the character well myself and haven't faced one either.

No Pichu or Squirtle opinions here.

Ivysaur isn't that bad unless [in not paying attention to patch notes] she was nerfed super hard. Her usamsh chains are actually super obnoxious if you ever get the stun going...

Charizard is good now? If not, not sure why you'd nerf one of his good moves lol.

I think Kirby could have been buffed some but whatever. I assume the DDD nerfs were enough as well then.

I miss vBrawl drill rush (minus helplessness)... that would fix it I think?

Fox could chaingrab with JC grab due to jump cancel on uthrow [and I don't think the dev team wants shinegrabs? I'd rather like them but that's neither here nor there, they might be a true blockstring though (barring shield DI) so that could be an issue...)]. SDI the dash attacks or DI them offstage lol.

Shorten command would give people one option of several, and putting it on R could make teching very difficult. Please do NOT do this. The other changes are discussed, and usmash is useful because you can SHDL side+B JC usmash people from afar as an anti-air [or just do side+b JC usmash cuz why not].

I guess FE is good?

Falcon's raptor boost used to be the easy zero-death starter of choice, which is why it was altered. I think it's getting buffed KB instead to make it KO better. Reverse knee is being reimplemented but it requires spacing, not holding buttons.

GnW is fine..? SoPo code exists in PM, IDK if they'd let us use it [it's a really small thing that I'd think they're fine with to be honest].

ROB and Pit seem fine [recovery glitches are being fixed]. Pikmin throw is the point of Olimar, so of course it's dumb, it's Minus lol.

Snake and Sonic are imo fine too [as fine as Sonic can be with some of his goofy stuff]. Snake not walljumping out of Cypher mid-Cypher would be nice lol.

Jeez that's a lot...
 

Kymaera K1ng

A PMCC player
JIGGLYPUFF: Since Sing can be blocked and dodged, why is it still counterable? Seems unfair that any character with a counter can counter...sleepboxes?
Yeah, this makes no real sense to me

I recall that the phenomenon where characters being launched could hit other characters is being removed, but I think this should be looked at all around.
I think we should bring this up again, as we never got a real answer from Pin Clock. What is the team's stance on this?

This is a weird suggestion but is it possible if you guys can add Pivot Tilt attacks like Smash 4?
This seems like a great idea, don't see why they couldn't do it.

Also petition to make tink's jab combo be safe on hit.
P L E A S E

I would like to see Jigglypuff's shield be cancelable into rest.

Jiggs does not have a good out of shield game. Yes, she has jump-nair, and yes she has a grab, and yes she has jump-rest. However, letting shield immediately cancel into rest would give attackers something to think about when attacking jiggs' enormous shield. Imo, jump rest is too slow, and jump nair is very predictable.
Jump -> Rest is already 6 frames (same speed as Shine OOS), NAir OOS is 7 frames and very safe, and grab is also 7 frames. Why does she a 1 frame, invincible, shield option (which is also one of the best kill moves in the game), something that no other character has?

Also, I'd like to request that Yoshi's "DJC" input be changed from imputing the aerial with Z, to a tap/hold input. It would be easier for everyone, especially for the people who claw.
 
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ThePwnzr

THE Frame Data Guy
Minus Backroom
Personally, Fox's walljump cancel window on UpB needs to be changed from 1 frame to something longer. I'd say 10, so maybe it could be buffered? 1 frame is ridiculously short, especially for Minus.
 

AGentleStar

Video Editor
IIRC, the grab cancel on inhale was removed and copy abilities buffed in a previous version of Minus as an attempt for people to actually use copy abilities - what Kirby's known for in his own games. I'm all for making Kirby's abilities better than the originals, but if people find that unbalanced, then I'm okay with it.

It was re-implemented into the King Dedede Copy ability. Not only does the inhale do chip damage, it can be grab cancelled just like in version 3.Q. But yeah. People did find it unbalanced for exactly the reasons you mentioned. :nesmk:
 

Lucis Perficio

Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
Reposting in a more organized fashion since there were complaints about my original post containing more than just requests. Wish I knew how to code for character icons to increase legibility.

IKE:

Ability to perform grounded specials out of QD. These were removed along with NSM despite not being in a changelog. When I first indicated this, Pin said that these things were still possible, though they aren't. Even if QD ou of QD isn't possible I"m fine with that since it prevents him from being rushdown.

Heftier/more consistent windboxes. They're pretty much useless since ledge-snapping is so consistent and recoveries are so good. The windboxes on usmash and dsmash in particular are generally unnoticeable.

Grant aether at least 10% armor, since most aerials deal more than that anyway. What's the point in Ike having a ledge-grab limit if his recovery is going to be gimpable regardless? If not 10% armor, then restore the super armor and perhaps limit its frames to specifically when he's kneeling over just before jumping to reach his sword, instead of having it start the moment he raises Ragnell above his head.

Make the original QD hit optional or cancellable on-hit. Ike is still easily gimped should he be lacking a jump if an opponent intercepts his QD low enough on the stage.

Please include all of Ike's voice clips (and to that affect, everyone's)!

GANONDORF: anglable ftilts to make him feel less stiff; they could be made to launch in the direction of the kick, or to simply deal flinching damage with no knockback for the sake of follow-ups, which would also lead to him having a better mix-up game.

Much like how Pichu can hold the attack button on his tilts for additional effects, dTilt's quake-box should work in much the same way, with the tap version being an electric stomp that knocks opponents up; this would make it so that Ganondorf has more than one way to start an air combo that doesn't require a grab or that he be moving. In this case normal fTilt could be made a held input and tap inputs anglable, so that Ganondorf will have a quicker get-off-me move w/ range that isn't his jab.

do away with the mostly useless gandouken (i preferred the one that looked like an extended warlock punch and served to kill, but overall I don't think they're particularly applicable); not sure why Minus devs are against a reflector for him; the window is relatively short for his cape in PM compared to Mario's cape

dSmash is easily over shadowed by other options unless the first hit is made to connect into the second as well, apparently this is already a thing, but I've yet to see it work in my most recent Minus updates.

Grabs shouldn't kill as early as most of the rest of his moveset. I think they should be some of his latest killing options. dThrow combo starter makes sense to me. I think each throw should combo at specific percent ranges, w/ bthrow being his clinch kill move for when his target is at high percent and he grabs @ ledge; uthrow multihits make the move slow and relatively useless in doubles and FFA since it can be intercepted (fixed if given armor while performing throws)

FIX TETHERS: on ZSS and Ivysaur (as they are the only characters I play with tethers), oftentimes the tether will extend to the ledge only to be like "lol jk" and retract; it's usually when very far offstage when this would happen, but I would say that instead of this, make it so that the tether doesn't extend to the ledge at all to avoid players feeling trolled by their own character, or make it so that the tethers extend MUCH faster so that the characters don't drift further while it extends to the ledge. I understand this happens because by the time the tether reaches the ledge, they are out of its detection range; if the detection range could be adjusted, this problem would be fixed

BOWSER: What will be added to him according to the approved requests seems like it'll help him. But his easy-bake combos should be removed. side-b burial into down-b three times in a row, or mixed with side-b burial-> wait for escape-> galactic crusher combos take care of the majority of the cast.

ROY: Fix sweetspots! Marth's is his tipper! Ike pretty much has uniform hitboxes on the sword. Roy's sweetspot should be on the hilt, no further than the middle of his sword. He feels much like side-b->dair the character as it is relatively safe and reliable both on and offstage from what I can tell. If the sweetspot could be kept between the hilt and the middle of his sword that would make a lot more sense for him, with the literal tip of the sword being the sourspot on all his moves.

JIGGLYPUFF: Since Sing can be blocked and dodged, why is it still counterable? Seems unfair that any character with a counter can counter...sleepboxes?

OLIMAR: Still can't help but feel like he needs reworking. Seems to spam happy with certain moves in particular MUs.


WARIO: Extended fthrow should kill at reasonable percents. The hitboxes on others while he performs the move is useless in singles, and barely applicable in doubles since you can also hit your opponent (assuming ppl aren't babies and play w/ team attack on). This could be fixed if the move retains its strength but has a more horizontal angle.

CAPTAIN YES: Fix weird landing lag when landing with Instant Falcon Punch

Please consider FFA and team battles in terms of balancing. It seems that you are since I recall that the phenomenon where characters being launched could hit other characters is being removed, but I think this should be looked at all around.

Add a debug mode in-game so that newbies can learn their characters' hitboxes nuances more easily rather than needing to use a computer program and get their hands on a bunch of other stuff just to do so.
 

EpicNonBread

Malfunctioning Machinery
Minus Backroom
Playtester
Lucis. For future reference your posts do kind of take up a good portion of the thread pages. Please condense using spoilers. The character faces can be found under the emoji tab under Minus. The Spoiler option can be found the Insert tab and is rather self-explanatory to use.
 
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