Turk Injaydii
Brawl Zeus Bandwagon-Rider
...then we need a new mascot. I love me some Dorf...but not so big on the heavy association of the game with a Satanic reference...ah well.
Brawl Minus 4.0 Changelog Preview!
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Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
I'll continue that conversation in the Custom Warlock Punch thread. It's unfortunately taboo to talk about WP much outside of there.
You know who I think should be the new Minus Mascot?
Wario. He's one of the better characters now, and he reeks of that LOL SO SILLY AND FUN vibe which the Minus devs love so much.
Waluigi would also be a good candidate, once he comes out in 4.0f. He and Wario could be great mascots together.
To me, Ganondorf represents the more serious side of Minus, where there's much less room for silliness.
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Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
that is a slightly good point, with waluigi being an official new character to minus, that can be a good mascot as of now.
i guess i assumed ganondorf was the mascot due to his many thumbnail appearances during the tourney videos on youtube.
speaking of wario i still look foward to being able to fly all over the subspace emissary on my flying motor bike. once the update comes out and it no longer freezes on character fights.
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
Player_03 over on /r/Minusery had this to say about Sonic's D-Air:
"Having done some testing, it looks like this is a spike rather than a meteor. It's probably just barely outside the range of angles that count as meteors, so you have to wait out the hitstun before you can cancel it.
I tested on ZSS because she's tied for the quickest meteor cancel, and she still had to wait ~30 frames rather than 15. She could survive and recover at 10%, but couldn't do either at 17%.
I tested a few other characters (G&W, Zelda, and Ganondorf) while I was at it. Ganondorf's down-b turned out to be a meteor rather than a spike, as did his dair (of course), but that dair is still surprisingly dangerous at 0%.
Zelda's dair may not be as strong as Ganon's, but it's up there, and it covers such a big area below Zelda that it almost guarantees a kill if you manage to line it up.
Sonic's spike is stronger than any of these options, purely because it's a spike. I'd suggest changing the angle just enough that players can cancel it, and then increasing its damage to make up for it. Either that or give it a slower startup so people can see it coming." (Source)
"Having done some testing, it looks like this is a spike rather than a meteor. It's probably just barely outside the range of angles that count as meteors, so you have to wait out the hitstun before you can cancel it.
I tested on ZSS because she's tied for the quickest meteor cancel, and she still had to wait ~30 frames rather than 15. She could survive and recover at 10%, but couldn't do either at 17%.
I tested a few other characters (G&W, Zelda, and Ganondorf) while I was at it. Ganondorf's down-b turned out to be a meteor rather than a spike, as did his dair (of course), but that dair is still surprisingly dangerous at 0%.
Zelda's dair may not be as strong as Ganon's, but it's up there, and it covers such a big area below Zelda that it almost guarantees a kill if you manage to line it up.
Sonic's spike is stronger than any of these options, purely because it's a spike. I'd suggest changing the angle just enough that players can cancel it, and then increasing its damage to make up for it. Either that or give it a slower startup so people can see it coming." (Source)
Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
will waluigi also start appearing more often once hes in? :3
Turk Injaydii
Brawl Zeus Bandwagon-Rider
What they need to do is add Ridley to the game and make him the mascot. That big purple people eater would exemplify the slogan "Breaking Limits!" better than any other character!
...and, as mentioned, he's PURPLE! I mean COME ON, isn't this a no brainer?!?!?!? Lol
Thor
Well-Known Member
What they need to do is add Ridley to the game and make him the mascot. That big purple people eater would exemplify the slogan "Breaking Limits!" better than any other character!
Please never.
Ganondorf as a mascot is primarily because it's well-known that Ganondorf is widely considered the worst character in Brawl [a few may argue Zelda or something but it's a near-consensus], and so having Brawl- Ganondorf come in and do massive damage with a useless move looks cool [even though the move itself is useless outside of hoping someone messes up due to lag or messes up in more than one way offline].
Pichu as a mascot is because Pichu is among the worst in Melee [I believe Pichu is second-worst behind Bowser in Melee, although most hold that Pichu is third-worst, ahead of Bowser and ahead of (last-place) Kirby].
Wario and Waluigi as mascots would be amazing, especially with Pichu around as well [and Mewtwo or Raichu if we get either of them - I'd prefer Mewtwo but that's me].
Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
you can never go wrong with 4 mascots.
Destructo
Failure Incarnate
I dunno, man. One time, a friend and I were playing Ganon dittoes. Remember that this guy is better than me. For some reason, I always started a match with Warlock punch, without moving from the spawn point, and somehow, he'd always run into it. We were laughing our heads off.
Thor
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why he forgot SHAD, stand still, dtaunt, and shield exist, but I suppose if you just all agree those options don't exist, it's useful once in a while?
But if we're balancing around that, we clearly have to nerf Falcon Punch, because it's a significantly faster move. And we might as well remove Sonic's dair from the game entirely.
You can't shield the Warlock Punch. If your best reaction to a move with about two seconds of wind-up is a shield, you kind of deserve to get hit.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
It's meant to hard read laggy moves anyway. You should seriously see how many kills I get with it in Smash 4, and that's shieldable.
Thor
Well-Known Member
You can shield the projectile, unless that was removed. What I was responding to was someone opening up a match a long distance from Ganondorf and getting hit. In that situation, your options from afar for dealing with the move in a defensive manner are SHAD through the shockwave/handbox, shield the shockwave, dtaunt the punch/shockwave, or stand still out of range - never mind that you can still grab or attack him because the move has zero armor or threatening hitboxes until about 1.5 seconds pass.
And you mention that you deserve to get hit, but you've still never addressed the fact that people can powershield all four hits of Falcon Punch in a row and punish the move, or at least MegaSaturn99 says he has done so.
If you can do that you legit deserve it and mad props to you for it.
A person
Member
I opened it up in Brawlbox .67b, because I noticed that the angle that Sonic's dair sends at is definitely not outside the meteor angle range. The range in brawl is really wide.
I found this:
363 is one of the the autolink angles.
And you can only meteor cancel a move if the move's actual trajectory is within the meteor range. If you set a move to have an angle of -90 you won't be able to meteor cancel it.
Simple solution:
change the angle to 290.
tested it in vbrawl and the angle seems good.
so, yeah.
Then, everything should be fine. And we can stop this Sonic dair flame war that seems to have been going on for years.
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I practiced it specifically so I can pull off Evo moment 37 levels of sillyness. If I get the first powershield I can hit the remaining ones 99% of the time, the instances of me missing it being simple human error. Also, can't you powershield Warlock Punch?
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
You've gotta show us video of that! Please.
Before WP lost the Cancel in 3.3, you could. I don't think you can shield it at all now, perfect or not.
Shielding it pre-3.3 would send Ganondorf flying backwards extremely fast. He would suicide if he didn't sidestep dodge or roll to halt his momentum before losing contact with a floor. That ended up being easy as long as he had more than a little floor behind him, so it went...
WP > Shielded > Shield Break > Sidestep Dodge / Roll to save himself > WP helpless foe
WP > Perfect Shielded > Foe Stuck in Shield > Sidestep Dodge / Roll to save himself > WP helpless foe > Shield Break > Sidestep Dodge / Roll to save himself > WP helpless foe
Making WP just ignore shields removed those shenanigans.
More like "make the process quicker and simpler for everyone since each scenario ends up in "WP helpless foe" anyways", and allowing the WP Cancel to exist just turned WP into a crutch move.
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
We essentially said the same thing there. I wasn't speaking of the old WP shenanigans fondly, they needed to go... It's just too bad that the Cancel getting cut took WP from "worth using often" to "almost never worth using". In retrospect, I agree that the Cancel needed to go, for the move to remain a OHKO. However, I think a different approach would have ended up leaving 'Dorf's Neutral B a better, more useful move in the end. For example, making it no longer a OHKO, but useful for movement, or even just making it function like it does in Smash 4 (that armor is great).
But that ship has sailed, so... :/
Thor
Well-Known Member
I mean it's a crutch against really really bad players, maybe? As you said above [paraphrased slightly], if you can't punish a move with nearly two seconds of startup, you don't deserve to XD. All the cancel really did is make sure that if you accidentally warlock punch offstage while trying to SH down+B someone, you didn't instantly die for an input error [which is why I wanted the startup to have an air dodge cancel, as I've mentioned before - maybe we could put an airdodge cancel on Sing too???].
Also, the "warlock punch helpless foe" only applies to 1v1. In FFA and teams you can either be saved by others distracting the Ganondorf player and preventing a greater punished, be grabbed and thrown out of the way, OR [assuming shieldstun is overwritten, not cumulative] someone could jab your shield and free you from the shieldstun.
Mario3785
Enjoyer of Ironic Memes
Yeah, but even in Smash 4...it's hardly useful.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
Honesty sonic is fine. I think what people have been complaining about is the spring after iirc.
Also, isn't ranged WP getting changed back to 3.Q?
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