Brawl Minus 4.0 Changelog Preview!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Pin Clock, Feb 14, 2016.

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  1. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    [​IMG]

    It's been a while since we've seen this version of the logo, hasn't it?

    Before I begin, I would like to note that this marks 2 years since the release of MAX 1.01 (Minus 3.01), the first version I directed. It makes me happy to know that I could have the privilege As the days go by, we are getting closer and closer to getting Brawl Minus 4.0 out of beta. While I hope you're all enjoying the beta so far, I feel that Minus 4.0 will be an even greater game, and the definitive Minus experience. We still have a long ways to go before it's finally ready, but we would like to give you a little sneak peak at some of the changes that will be coming!

    Global
    Physics changes:
    Fall speed 1.1 -> 1.05
    Fast fall speed 1.1 -> 1.0
    Hop v velocity 1.0 -> 1.05
    Jump v velocity 1.0 -> 1.05

    Dashes can now be buffered

    Shield stun:
    Calculation accuracy increased. This results in shield stun being 0-3 frames higher depending on the damage percent.

    Respawn invincibility:
    Reverted to vBrawl
    While the beta codeset was good to keep invuln from being abused, it also forced players trying to get back on their feet right back into their opponent's pressure, so we didn't find this change to be a good fit.

    Ledge invincibility:
    16 -> 20 (vBrawl's is 23)

    cBliss added. More details to come at a future date.

    Minus artwork for everyone improved. This will be shown off at a future date.

    Subspace Emissary
    -Fixed a freeze that would occur when two playable characters fought each other
    -Made character attributes in Subspace match those they have in VS Mode (EX: 4 Jumps)
    -Galleom and Duon's sounds are their own again

    Characters
    King Dedede

    Standing grab
    Active frames changed from 4-6 -> 6-8

    Diddy Kong
    Rocketbarrel Jetpack
    -No longer goes into Special Fall, can only be used once per airtime
    -End animation changed to reflect this.

    Fox
    Wavedashing
    sliding off ledges is allowed in more subactions, making it behave more proper and less clunky

    Up-b
    Can now grab edge during charge animation.
    Can now grab the edge during the "moving" animation, instead of just the end

    Reflector
    Knockback reduced
    This kills two birds with one stone, reducing offstage kill power and making waveshines more consistant.

    Mr. Game and Watch
    Up-B
    Landing lag reduced when landing perfectly on a platform

    Dash Attack
    No longer stage spikes opponents grabbing the ledge

    Judge
    Endlag 8 -> 15
    Cooldown 25 -> 20

    Fire!
    Added a hitbox on the bottom of the parachute that will drag foes down with Mr. Game and Watch.

    Ganondorf
    Dash Attack
    Now gets armor on Frame 7

    Gerudo Dragon
    Fixed this move having Super Armor

    Kirby
    Burning
    No longer stage spikes opponents

    Lucario
    Double Team
    -Changed grab cancel to grounded attack cancel.
    -Air reappear is now cancelable to mach grounded version.
    -slowed reapper a bit.(fsm=.9)

    dair
    -4 frames endlag added before cancel
    -6 frames landing lag added

    uair
    -increased endlag (fsm=.8)

    Aura:
    Fixed a bug that made Aura not work properly
    Stock scaling removed
    Aura scaling changed to 1.0 min, 2.0 baseline at 200%, 3,0 at 999%

    ULTRATAUNT
    Now goes to 999% instead of 300%.

    Luigi
    Green missile:
    - Nerfed first hitbox knockback
    - Added 2 secondary hitboxes to the move. Now has 3 total, descending in power. While the first hitbox is really strong, the second and third are incrementally weaker. the second hitbox comes out frame 24, and the last comes out on frame 36. there is only ever 1 hitbox active, the others are removed before the others come out
    - Now loses most of his momentum if he connects with a shielding opponent.

    Super Jump Punch
    -nerfed sourspot hitbox a bit
    killing off the top at anything about 60 was a bit much for luigi's damage output and air to ground transition.

    Lucas
    uAir
    Now only freezes foes when you hold down A while using this move.

    Mario
    Side Taunt
    -Animation reverted back to Brawl animation to fix animation issues.
    -0.4* Frame Speed Modifier added on Frame 41 until Frame 61 (making the wait between the two Frame points about 50 Frames).
    -Metal is activated on Frame 72 (technically Frame 132).
    -Can interrupt on Frame 81 (technically Frame 141)
    -Total length increased to about 160 Frames from 150 Frames.

    Meta Knight
    Dimensional Cape:
    Slash sweetspot damage 15 -> 13, same direction slash (horizontal knockback) kbg 101 -> 96, bkb 37 -> 40

    Ness
    PK Flash
    No longer goes into Special Fall

    Peach
    Turnip Pull:
    Can no longer be performed out of special tumble states (shield break fall, star ko, etc)
    Fixed an RNG related glitch where Peach would not pluck items with the intended frequencies (specifically Peach should now be able to pull green shells)

    Pichu
    Model slightly touched up, textures vastly improved
    Improved his vBrawl Render

    Dthrow
    BKB 53 -> 57, KBG 22 -> 25, Angle 138 -> 133
    Pichu will no longer have a long lasting chaingrab against the entire cast.

    Fsmash
    Charged self-damage 10 -> 8

    Dsmash
    Charged self-damage 8 -> 6
    Charged shield damage 48 -> 32 (total damage to shields, 56.4 -> 40.4)

    Usmash
    Charged self-damage 10 -> 6

    Pikachu
    Skull Bash
    Wall jump cancel added

    Ivysaur
    Alt costume Textures improved

    Bullet seed:
    Velocity gain increased to adjust for gravity changes

    Ice Climbers
    Nana
    Can now only die when in hitstun

    Belay
    Solo upwards initial velocity 1.9 -> 2.8

    Squall Hammer
    Nana snap distance 30 -> (basically) infinite
    Initial solo grounded velocity reduction 25%/10% -> 0%
    Gravity .1 -> .065
    Max downwards velocity 2.8 -> 1.8
    Mash window 6 -> 8
    Mash boost .6/.8 -> .8/.9
    Aerial solo initial vertical velocity boost .6 -> 1.2
    Grounded acceleration .09 -> .1
    Grounded max horizontal velocity 1.1 -> 1.3
    Aerial acceleration .08 -> .09
    Aerial max horizontal velocity 1.3 -> 1.5
    Synced wall bounce momentum conservation .75 -> .5
    Can grab ledge after frame 12/13
    tl;dr version: Nana will teleport to Popo at the start of squall hammer similarly to belay and Squall Hammer generally moves slightly faster and is more responsive

    Roy
    vBrawl render improved

    Up Smash
    Reworked, is now a single sweeping hit

    Sheik
    Dash Attack
    Added intangibility so to prevent her from being hit while invisible.

    Up B
    Intangibility restored to prevent her from being hit while invisible. 0.8 FSM added after hitbox terminates to add endlag making it more punishable.

    Sonic

    dAir
    Can now only be cancelled into other moves if it hits
    Can be cancelled into Boost on the ground if this move hits.

    Toon Link

    nAir, bAir
    Kill power reduced.

    dAir
    Jump Cancel moved frame 15->19

    Boomerang
    Kill power reduced, KB Angle changed to be less vertical

    Zelda
    Up B
    Growth drastically increased, making it into a KO move.

    Stages
    Stage Expansion Pack Restored

    The following stages will be readded:
    Mario Bros. 2.x.6
    Norfair 3.3
    Literally Frozen Stadium 2
    Yoshi's Island (Melee) 3.3
    Get the Trophy!
    Planet Zebes
    Fourside
    Big Blue
    Hanenbow
    Bridge of Eldin
    Rainbow Cruise
    Distant Planet

    Peach's Castle 64

    Bowser's Castle alt. restored.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    All changes are not final and subject to change.

    I hope you liked this sneak peak in the changes to come, and we can't wait until we can show more, but until then, keep on Breaking the Limits!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
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  2. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    What does "Nana can only die while not in hitstun" mean? Is that a typo (can only die while in hitstun), or does that mean Nana can no longer be spiked for a KO (and will also now only die off the side once she is out of hitstun, aka she'll take forever to die if Warlock Punched), or what? I'm curious what this change actually does.
     
  3. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Typo. Nana can now only die when in hitstun.
     
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  4. Mario3785

    Mario3785 Enjoyer of Ironic Memes

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    Improved vBrawl art? Awesome! No offense, but I'm not too much of a fan of the Minus art. It's not really good for use with texture hacks and the like. Anyways, this update will be awesome, with my favorite new feature being cBliss.
     
  5. Destructo

    Destructo Failure Incarnate

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    Hey Pin, I don't want to sound like I'm shamelessly advertising, but I made Roy look very Smash 3-esque by increasing the saturation on almost all textures by 30% and editing the hue of his hair. Is it in the realm of possibility that they could become his new default textures?
    Here they are:
    http://www.mediafire.com/download/kl0pndh0hqxbmsz/B-+S3Roy.zip
    P.S. Those new vBrawl renders look sexy af.
    P.S.S. I agree with Mario3785. However, I do like the idea of putting a drawing in the game as a CSP. I tried tracing a drawing of mine in MS Paint once. I realized 3 seconds in that I can't trace with a mouse to save my life.
     
  6. Destructo

    Destructo Failure Incarnate

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    Time to critically analyze this.
    I like the changes you made to gravity and jump height. Now everyone wins.
    CBLISS FINALLY YES
    Minus artwork, in my opinion, is a neat idea. Make CSPs specific to Minus in a style that no one has ever done before. However, I don't exactly like how it looked before. I hope these new CSPs will make Minus look much better aesthectically.
    I never found Fox's wavedash clunky. I applaud you for making wavedashing easier than in any other game.
    DOH I HOPED THEY WOULDN'T NOTICE THE ARMOR ON GERUDO DRAGON
    Lucas's uair change is welcome.
    Not sure what exactly is going on with Mario's Side Taunt.
    Hooray, Pichu was fixed. His feet look really weird on his neutral costume. I like that the textures are getting a facelift.
    Ivysaur getting better alt textures is nice.
    Roy's Upsmash change is great. I find his current one a bit unwieldy. This should fix almost all of the problems I have with Roy.
    I don't really have a comment of any worth about the new stages, since I started with 3.Q. All I can really say is, the more the merrier.
    A stage alt? Is that accomplished through ASL, or is it more akin to how Lavaville works, where it's a seperate stage?
    The new Pichu render looks very Melee-esque. Gotta love that shiny, oversaturated look.
    Roy's render is nothing short of amazing.
    That's my two cents.
    Also, will we have to wait till April 4th, 4444 for release?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  7. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Interesting. Would you go ahead and share the 4.0 forms of the following codes? (Mawootad)?

    Global Attribute Modification
    * C2857658 00000008
    * C023D134 2C050BCF
    * 41820014 2C050BD0
    * 4182000C 2C050BD7
    * 40A20020 7C0802A6
    * 48000009 3f8ccccd
    * 7C6802A6 7C0803A6
    * C0030000 FC210032
    * 60000000 00000000
    Gravity*=1.1
    Fallspeed*=1.1
    Max Fallspeed*=1.1

    Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
    * 02B88F48 00030001
    * 04B87AA8 3F000000
    Current Setting: .50 Hitstun

    If fall speed is changed, I'll need to update some of my tweaked content. It would be nice if I could go ahead and get on that.

    Also, do these fall speed changes fix Snake's N-Air? The fourth kick doesn't have enough time to come out as-is.

    Really hoping to see Snake get some positive attention in 4.0. It's still set to be the final update, yeah?

    Other thoughts:
    - Are those two Ganondorf changes straight nerfs? :/ Got anything good in store for him?
    - You were supposed to nerf Sonic's D-Air, not buff it. o_o
    - I've been waiting on Zelda's Farore's Wind Up-B to get that KO power. Sounds good!
    - Can you give Pichu its Melee idle animation and fix its idle stance? It looks hunched over.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  8. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    It is a nerf. Sonic can only cancel dAir if he hits with it now.
     
  9. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    It's still getting nerfed from "true spike" to "meteor smash", right?
     
  10. Neville

    Neville GG M8s Minus Backroom

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    Fox's wavedash is clunky because rolls and spot dodges are often buffered out of them. This aims to fix that.
     
  11. Destructo

    Destructo Failure Incarnate

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    Alright, time to ask the question on everyone's mind: Will Raichu be in this version?
     
  12. Baby_Sneak

    Baby_Sneak Active Member

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    I see you brought a potential A+ diddy down to a lower A diddy in terms of the tier list.

    Still going to main him (Zard's not weak, just not my style. Too barebones for my taste).
     
  13. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    You know what they say: Two's company. Three's a... electric rat infestation.

    I'd much rather see Mewtwo, or even Young Link, rather than Raichu if we get another fighter in 4.0.

    I'm guessing non-veteran newcomers are out of the question, this late in the game.

    Future Edit: Cool, I was wrong! Waluigi will be in 4.0f. WAA!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  14. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    It is a meteor, it just feels like a spike because you're going to get spring'd immediately after.

    But now Sonic has to put a little more thought into things before he feels like dAiring.
     
  15. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Doesn't matter what you call it. What it is is a OHKO at ledge level or below against the majority of the cast, except at very low percents.

    At least, that's how Sonic's D-Air was the last time I tested it.

    Sonic's D-Air should be just as survivable as any other Meteor Smash, but for some reason it's much stronger, because its victim can't act quickly enough after getting hit by it to save himself.

    By itself, it certainly should not be more deadly than Ganondorf's D-Air.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  16. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    Gonna have to agree with Bent on this one. Regardless of what it is or what it does, it's still basically a 2-hit meteor with spring, which is next to (if not entirely) impossible to survive no matter who you are, so there is no reason to give it that much power while he has the spring as that extra, guaranteed-to-hit finisher. If nothing else, why not nerf dair so the combination of the two results in what a single hit meteor would be?
     
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  17. Destructo

    Destructo Failure Incarnate

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    It was a joke... I guess I'm not gud at teh joking...
    I agree with you, though. Mewtwo could have tons of potential as a fighter in Minus. His Down B could break shields as well as stunning, Side B could work like it does in Sm4sh, Teleport would be quickened up and given a hitbox, and Neutral B could just be generally powered up. There are probably tons of BrawlEx Mewtwos to use as a base as well. We would just need to find a good one. Sorta sad that everything I just said is probably impossible.
     
  18. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    Diddy benefits quite a bit from the current changes. He doesn't randomly get punished for not cancelling up-b and he can once again short hop dair without landing lag.
     
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  19. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Can I get these questions answered, please?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  20. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    The codes as always will be included in a .txt on release.

    We're looking into more changes for Ganondorf.
    Pichu animation changes are unlikely.
     
  21. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

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    The majority of these changes are fine, but it does seem like a pretty bare patch at the moment.

    The one change I can't see the reason for are the changes to Fox's Shine. Even in 4.0b, Shine knockback could be canceled ridiculously early, and now it got worse?

    EDIT: I also agree that Sonic's DAir -> Spring needs to be changed. It's annoying as hell.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  22. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Just one question left unanswered:
     
  23. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Rest assured, there are some major changes coming in the future.

    The fall speed changes do fix Snake's nAir.
     
  24. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    1.) Do the fallspeed changes fix Pikachu's dair? In Brawl that was frame-perfect if I remember, so if his gravity isn't fully reverted, it's possible he still can't SH AC dair, and that's a rather useful part of his toolkit I don't want to see removed from Minus forever...

    2.) Did Sonic's dair receive an angle change? In 3.Q the angle was set so that it couldn't be meteor-cancelled [unlike every other downward sending move in the entire game, bar Ganondorf's up+b grab]. If this angle isn't be tweaked to be meteor-cancellable, it doesn't fix the problem.
     
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  25. Baby_Sneak

    Baby_Sneak Active Member

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    if the diddy player didn't cancel his up-b, that's on him. i don't see the issue imo. and i thought Dair already canceled laglessly.
     
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