Brawl Minus 4.0 Changelog Preview!

[Gold_TSG]

Yeah, but even in Smash 4...it's hardly useful.

You would be surprised.

 

[Thor]

I don't know where to get it, but a while back in a Facebook Smash 4 group, someone posted a gfycat where Ganondorf armored all of Limit Break Cross Slash to Warlock Punch Cloud to win a game.

Not saying the move is useful [it's still not really], but hard reads on a move with armor can lead to interesting results.

 

[Gold_TSG]

It's especially great to use a reverse to return from high, since you have aerial control. There are a lot of people out there that are either impatient, or wind up charging a smash, only for me to move slightly out of range as I land and break their soul.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

It's especially great to use a reverse to return from high, since you have aerial control. There are a lot of people out there that are either impatient, or wind up charging a smash, only for me to move slightly out of range as I land and break their soul.

Only on FG though. in a real match, it's so impractical. PMDT had the right idea tbh.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Only on FG though. in a real match, it's so impractical. PMDT had the right idea tbh.

False. I have landed this against people outside of FG, including fellow Dorf players from smashboards that are highly skilled. It depends on how far ahead you read your opponent, and their typical reactions to attacks.

 

[Mariosonicman1]

really tho. every move in smash can be useful. it all just depends when you use it. and the key point is when.
except for a majority of down tilts. no one ever uses thoes.

 

[Destructo]

really tho. every move in smash can be useful. it all just depends when you use it. and the key point is when.
except for a majority of down tilts. no one ever uses thoes.

No way man. Down tilts are the best moves in the game.

 

[Mariosonicman1]

No way man. Down tilts are the best moves in the game.

id like to ask you for some good examples if i may. at least 3 downtilts.

 

[Destructo]

id like to ask you for some good examples if i may. at least 3 downtilts.

Falcon, Link, Marth... And I think Falco and Lucas have good ones too.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Not mentioning Dorf's is blasphemous

 

[Pin Clock]

Peach, Ike, and Ice Climbers, among others, have dTilts that meteor foes.

 

[Neville]

Peach, Ike, and Ice Climbers, among others, have dTilts that meteor foes.

Minus Peach actually has the Melee combo of dtilt>reverse bair>fair. And she can cancel a dash attack into it. Zelda's dtilts also combos into itself multiple times.

 

[Thor]

Dtilts are actually usually amazing - low lag, decent speed, good range, and/or a combo starter.

Pikachu, Meta Knight, Ganondorf, Diddy Kong, Falco, Fox, Ike, Kirby, Marth, and more all have great dtilts [and I can go on if you want].

 

[Turk Injaydii]

To help get us back on the rails here, lol, I'd like to ask if Ivysaur is going to get some love in 4.0f? She/he is currently VERY weak in comparison to a lot of the cast (I went in depth about this in the character's feedback thread). Additionally, Lucario is so good its cancerous. He definitely needs some nerfing.

Lastly, who are some characters you're all hoping get some nerfs or buffs to better the game's balance?

 

[Neville]

To help get us back on the rails here, lol, I'd like to ask if Ivysaur is going to get some love in 4.0f? She/he is currently VERY weak in comparison to a lot of the cast (I went in depth about the character's feedback thread). Additionally, Lucario is so good its cancerous. He definitely needs some nerfing.

Lastly, who are some characters you're all hoping get some nerfs or buffs to better the game's balance?

Ivysaur actually has some of the best kill power in the entire game, has combo loops with her usmash stun hitboxes into sleep powder. Her utilt is also possibly the easiest move to combo out of in the entire game.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Ivysaur actually has some of the best kill power in the entire game, has combo loops with her usmash stun hitboxes into sleep powder. Her utilt is also possibly the easiest move to combo out of in the entire game.

This is Minus. You could name good things about any character. That doesn't change that some are far from being on even footing with the rest of the cast.

 

[Thor]

Ivysaur actually has some of the best kill power in the entire game, has combo loops with her usmash stun hitboxes into sleep powder. Her utilt is also possibly the easiest move to combo out of in the entire game.

This is super duper annoying, especially with how freaking strong the actual usmash is.

This is Minus. You could name good things about any character. That doesn't change that some are far from being on even footing with the rest of the cast.

*and remark about Lucario*

She literally precludes other characters from grabbing ledge with her aerial down+b, basically ever lol. And it very high damage output, so you get a ton of reward every time you do a down+B at the ledge.

What specifically makes you think Ivysaur is bad? You have given literally no arguments whatsoever that Ivysaur is actually a mediocre character, you just said she's bad, when she's a middle weight with a nigh-unstoppable recovery move and great disjoints on a lot of moves. I know BC has a formidable Ivysaur, so unless you can tell what exactly makes her bad, I don't think you'll gain much traction.

I will ignore what you compared Lucario to and just state that he's a very potent character, and there are some changes I'd personally like to see, but I don't think Lucario is the best in the game, since he supposedly has losing MUs [I'd have to look really carefully and see if anyone doesn't, it's hard for me to tell frankly from just quickly glancing over the cast]. I'm also curious if you have anything to propose? I have my own ideas but I won't share them here just yet.

 

[BC]

If you think Ivy is that bad of a character, you either haven't seen or played my Ivy before, or you have no idea how to play as her. SHe has some of the best pokes in the game(Utilt, Jabs cancelled into Dsmash, short hop Bair, Ftilt), an amazing grab game(Dthrow combos, Uthrow and Bthrow are kill throws), One of the most spammable projectiles in the game(Razor Leaf), and some of the most powerful kill options in Minus(Usmash, Uair, Fair, Vine Whip), which barely have any endlag. Her recovery is decent if you know how to use the momentum variant of Vine Whip, and cancel Bullet Seed into Vine Whip to save your jump. The list just goes on and on... she's an amazing character.

Okay... angry rant over. Seriously, Ivy's amazing, and you people should actually learn how to play her. LB's learned, and he's doing pretty well with her in friendlies with me.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

If you think Ivy is that bad of a character, you either haven't seen or played my Ivy before, or you have no idea how to play as her. SHe has some of the best pokes in the game(Utilt, Jabs cancelled into Dsmash, short hop Bair, Ftilt), an amazing grab game(Dthrow combos, Uthrow and Bthrow are kill throws), One of the most spammable projectiles in the game(Razor Leaf), and some of the most powerful kill options in Minus(Usmash, Uair, Fair, Vine Whip), which barely have any endlag. Her recovery is decent if you know how to use the momentum variant of Vine Whip, and cancel Bullet Seed into Vine Whip to save your jump. The list just goes on and on... she's an amazing character.

Okay... angry rant over. Seriously, Ivy's amazing, and you people should actually learn how to play her. LB's learned, and he's doing pretty well with her in friendlies with me.

If she's better than I think, that's a good thing. I don't know why you felt the need to present your case in this manner. There's far to few of us for us to be hostile toward one another.

This is super duper annoying, especially with how freaking strong the actual usmash is.
She literally precludes other characters from grabbing ledge with her aerial down+b, basically ever lol. And it very high damage output, so you get a ton of reward every time you do a down+B at the ledge.

What specifically makes you think Ivysaur is bad? You have given literally no arguments whatsoever that Ivysaur is actually a mediocre character, you just said she's bad, when she's a middle weight with a nigh-unstoppable recovery move and great disjoints on a lot of moves. I know BC has a formidable Ivysaur, so unless you can tell what exactly makes her bad, I don't think you'll gain much traction.

I will ignore what you compared Lucario to and just state that he's a very potent character, and there are some changes I'd personally like to see, but I don't think Lucario is the best in the game, since he supposedly has losing MUs [I'd have to look really carefully and see if anyone doesn't, it's hard for me to tell frankly from just quickly glancing over the cast]. I'm also curious if you have anything to propose? I have my own ideas but I won't share them here just yet.

I don't wish to go into detail about 4.0b Ivysaur in a thread focusing on 4.0f and what's to come. If you'd like to continue this discussion, we may do so in the Ivysaur feedback thread that I mentioned in a previous comment...

...I went in depth about this in the character's feedback thread...

In closing, I'd like to apologize for getting the thread off topic and hope it does not continue to be derailed so much. The intent of my previous post was to get this thread focusing on 4.0f again by encouraging others to discuss changes they are hoping to see.

 

[Neville]

Turk Injaydii it's fine to discuss characters in the current build since that's how we determine what to do with them in the futurę. Ivy doesn't really need a buff imo except maybe her bullet seed not falling due to the high gravity.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Turk Injaydii it's fine to discuss characters in the current build since that's how we determine what to do with them in the futurę. Ivy doesn't really need a buff imo except maybe her bullet seed not falling due to the high gravity.

The most appropriate place to have a character specific discussion is on the characters thread. That way players interested in that character can easily find those discussions. There's an Ivy feedback thread already. Just put that content there.

 

[Gold_TSG]

If she's better than I think, that's a good thing. I don't know why you felt the need to present your case in this manner. There's far to few of us for us to be hostile toward one another.

He wasn't really being hostile whatsoever. He was explaining facts to you, with a bit of passion. Just cause someone stands behind their character doesn't necessarily mean they are being hostile. No need to throw around accusations.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

The phrase "you people" has never been seen in a positive light. But if I misread him, I apologize.

At any rate, I'd love to see this thread move on to something productive.

 

[Destructo]

So, is this going to be updated, or...

 

[Lucis Perficio]

Give us back Hyrule Temple, please. I figured it was removed because some characters have crazy mobility, but that's what the random stage select option is for.