Brawl Minus 3.Q is all Qued up and ready to go!
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Glyph
Moderator
I'm 90% sure you played Jomo for those games so I take no blame on forgetting that, but regardless that's a hot one yoshi I've seen (okay maybe I take a little blame on forgetting, sometimes I'm dumb and forget stuff).
Then you guys should be testing stuff! That's one of the biggest things the BRoom is supposed to be doing, but the player pool back there is pretty stagnant now, especially when it comes to yoshi and other neglected characters. In these cases you should be reaching out to people who really do know a lot about them, and then testing to see if your results match up to what they say.
Then you guys should be testing stuff! That's one of the biggest things the BRoom is supposed to be doing, but the player pool back there is pretty stagnant now, especially when it comes to yoshi and other neglected characters. In these cases you should be reaching out to people who really do know a lot about them, and then testing to see if your results match up to what they say.
Once again, I don't play Yoshi. You'd have to play Thunda or someone who is actually good with him. I've faced him enough to know that Yoshi isn't the garbage you think. I'm also not sure if you understand the meaning of stacking flower element. I didn't say stacking smashes. If you hit someone with Fsmash before the flower goes away it gets larger and deals damage faster.
So if many people suck with someone does that mean the character sucks? I don't want to hop on the melee train, but I recall Young Link jumping up the tier list after nearly a decade because someone found out what he can do. The fact that you've never fought a good Yoshi simply means you don't know what he's capable of. You can't rightly say "I haven't fought a good one so he sucks." Just as Thor hadn't fought a good Peach, and you hadn't known Peach could do okay against Link. Yet, I got your projectile heavy Link down to 2 stocks with her.
Not taking any sides in this discussion, but that will never happen unless you actually let Yoshi do it.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
I agree that we need more people for testing, but I'm not in charge of recruiting. I play quite a few chars, but I can't use all of them to their fullest potential, so I can only go based off of what I can do. What we need is more people showing interest in joining the team as play testers, but we simply don't have a plethora of high skill players willing to do that.
And PowerUp, I've only played you once since you joined here. I'm sure I haven't seen you play all your guys yet, and I don't recall if you ever used Yoshi against me.
And PowerUp, I've only played you once since you joined here. I'm sure I haven't seen you play all your guys yet, and I don't recall if you ever used Yoshi against me.
mozzery
Member
I agree it is not that simple, and I agree that I oversimplified a much larger point while trying to get the gist of my point across, (my post was a wall of text to begin with) but I fundamentally disagree that sonic has a bad matchup against bowser, or that ganondorf has better than 50/50 matchup against Fox in my opinion from viewing these match ups at a decently high level.
Also, Gold_TSG, what Kienamaru said about Yoshi is what I was looking for from you in the debate over Yoshi, reasoning over why a character should not be buffed that can be debated on its merits. Kien's answer may not have been as complete as I would have liked, (I would have liked the devastating combos to be explained, and how he is better than Link was before the "normalizing" buff to his jab which was important enough to merit a buff) but it at least fosters discussion over the character that can be disagreed with, argued with, etc.
Also, if I ever get better internet, (which might happen in the fairly near future) I'll show you what Ike can do
(I'd say Pit and ROB as well, but I think everyone already knows they're both very good already).
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PowerUp
Well-Known Member
Let's stop beating around the bush. If you have zero intention of rebalancing Yoshi no matter what is said or shown, just say it outright so that we don't waste our time with BS arguments like "our players aren't skilled enough", or "I don't play as or against X character at all, BUT HERES MY OPINION ANYWAY".
Honestly. Falcon knee chains aren't a problem to you guys. Zelda having half the stage covered in totally safe and highly damaging disjointed hitboxes isn't a problem. ROB's sideB cancels have survived how many builds now. Oh, but YOSHI is the one we have to watch out for. One more buff and he's OP. And then while giving us BS about balance, you give Ike how many additional powerful options out of NSM at the request of nobody at all? Laughable.
38 days, boys.
Honestly. Falcon knee chains aren't a problem to you guys. Zelda having half the stage covered in totally safe and highly damaging disjointed hitboxes isn't a problem. ROB's sideB cancels have survived how many builds now. Oh, but YOSHI is the one we have to watch out for. One more buff and he's OP. And then while giving us BS about balance, you give Ike how many additional powerful options out of NSM at the request of nobody at all? Laughable.
38 days, boys.
NEWB
Well-Known Member
What?
Also, the knee and robs sideb are very telegraphed as an approach, which is why they shouldn't be used as an approach a lot. Otherwise, I don't think I have much to say about those moves, except it is pretty hard to get triple knee strings on humans.
I don't like that all of her moves have distant hitboxes either. It really is unnecessary, at least for her bair AND fair. Give one or the other but not both.
Darxmarx
The Learning Star Warrior
Thor
Well-Known Member
Well if no one played Falco, my ideas for buffs might have been taken, and there were some awesome ones in there. And so far, it's really just owo and me (and I may not count) [Gold_TSG picked him up recently, but in our lagfests I don't know if he's strictly better or if I might take some off him. He's Falco champ, but he has solid fundamentals overall - I don't know if his Falco would beat most of the rest of the cast if he cloned himself, and honestly, I doubt it - no offense Gold_TSG, but I think your Samus/DK/Dorf/Marth would beat your Falco.]
Because Falco needed buffs clearly. owo sitting in grand finals is proof of that. As did Peach, as did Toon Link [we didn't have any uber TLs, did we?], as did Ike, who nobody actually repped well in here [was Ike even played in the tournament???].
...
Oh wait.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
I'd have to agree. Knowing how to play as him gives you an idea on how to beat him. I've faced enough Falcos as well to get a pretty good idea on his strengths and weaknesses.
In my opinion, the only thing about Falco I don't like is his reflector poke. Poke range, speed, cancel, etc.
Thor
Well-Known Member
It's Falco's only good forward-facing aerial - bair has no range, nair has little range, and fair has some range but massively extends his hitboxes, so you will end up getting hit by something that otherwise wouldn't hit you if you don't hit them way too often [as compared to a lot of fairs like Marth's or Pikachu's where you can be safe or fade away rather easily]. Fair KOs well, but it's a KO move that's ONLY for KOing or silly and usually risky strings - it's like an inferior and situational version of the knee I guess.
On the ground, reflector is rarely not better than ftilt - but just doubling or tripling the base knockback on ftilt [and lowering KGB if necessary] would probably fix that.
I forsee reflector nerfs, regardless of what I say, and not because I think they are needed, but because reflector seems to piss off a lot of people. If it was nerfed to 1 or 2% on the way out, with a slight BKB boost to make it act more or less the same KB-wise, I think it would be perfectly fine, instead of good as is, but that's just me [then getting hit by it 5 times is like getting hit by one dair, except you can't combo off of the reflector unlike dair]. (I think right now it does like 4% or something).
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
I play a "B" Grade Yoshi, and I think he would benefit from 1-3 very small buffs, like
- Being able to stay inside Egg Roll long enough to go the length of FD 1.5-2 times, instead of just 1.
- Getting 1-4% armor on Egg Roll, so it can power through 1-2 weak projectiles.
- Having his B-Air and maybe D-Air link and combo better.
If anyone wants to play my Yoshi, or any of my other mains, just say so.
- Being able to stay inside Egg Roll long enough to go the length of FD 1.5-2 times, instead of just 1.
- Getting 1-4% armor on Egg Roll, so it can power through 1-2 weak projectiles.
- Having his B-Air and maybe D-Air link and combo better.
If anyone wants to play my Yoshi, or any of my other mains, just say so.
No one said we had no intention of rebalancing Yoshi. The problem here is that nothing you said warrants any action to be taken on him. You haven't played a troublesome Yoshi as you've clearly stated. Everything that has been said have been pointless random suggestions that can't even be taken into consideration as they are possibly some of the most foolish suggestions to be mentioned in history since I joined the BR and heard about "Composite Link." You aren't an amazing player from what I've seen Power, I am yet to be convinced that you're on my level of play from what I've seen when I went against you. I'm not calling you bad, but it takes more than a few people who don't play as or against someone to say that they need improvements. Giving someone something such as a mobility tool or approach option is by far the most delicate of all additions, as they are completely game changing. Look at 3.5 Roy and 3.Q Roy. The difference is pretty clear with his survivability and options all around being better once he received the air dash, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know who told you that falcon knee chains weren't a problem, I didn't even know the knee could chain into itself until recently because I have a surprising lack of Falcon experience and he's also one of my worst to play characters. I don't think Falcon's knee chain is on the list of high priority toxins to Minus though. Nor is Zelda being able to use her ranged hitboxes to teleport. Zelda's ranged hitboxes aren't nearly as powerful as attacks from the other mid to heavy hitters in damage or knockback. She may have too much pressure, and possibly too much safety, but you and I both know that her tilts are very laggy and punishable. Zelda's ability to function at range isn't an issue. It's the fact that she does close to equally well when the opponent gets in. We have much bigger issues, whether things are too good or too bad. That is what we want to hear. Not the consistent bitching and moaning about how no one ever even tries to consider your feedback because we do things that the community doesn't expect. No one is saying one buff will break Yoshi, we're saying that one of the wrong buffs will break him. How is that hard to see? You could say that one buff wouldn't break Link, but I guarantee it that if we gave Link 10 frames of endlag on every attack, and buffed his arrow charge and draw speed to 5x faster he would be broken. Do you understand what I'm getting at here or is there some lack of comprehension due to me using an example that isn't the exact same as what you were implying?
Let's talk about Ike for a second, because you weren't even here long enough to start talking shit about him. Ike was being worked on for a very long time, trying to find ways to complete NSM. This was actually requested, and if you checked the Ike threads you would know that, but you don't seem like the type to go out of your way for information what with your arrogant disposition and know-it-all mentality. Originally Ike only had a counter for NS mode that changed. Eventually I tweaked him to have a more noticeable amount of changes when in NS mode so that he would be more fun to fight as and harder to shut down. As you know, Ike is dominated by projectiles, speedsters, and people with a good enough air game. If anything should warrant complaints, it would be the wind on his fair and side smash, as those can score KO's far below kill percents. So I kept working to complete him in a way that would be fun, and minusy. Whether or not it fits in is decided by the players which for people who like Ike I've heard no complaints. Others have only stated that it doesn't fit. So tell me this, Razing Eruption... How can you abuse it? You dash across the stage and blow things up for what.. 40ish percent? How is that different from a PK fire to down throw combo with Ness? Because it KOs around 60ish? How is that different than a wall of pain or gimp with Kirby? Everyone already knows that Flourish is nothing too broken. It's much more punishable than slow counter eruption. So that leaves Aetherial Eruption. It doesn't KO til nearly 100, and it hurts Ike enough to the point where his 4% heal does nothing for him. I took into account the safety and likelihood of landing the move when making it function. If you get caught by Aether all the time I guess it's a problem, but the outcome of you getting caught in it and combod on landing is no different than the outcome of you getting caught in it and Ike erupting. Except Ike takes damage and if you try to block the final hit with a weak shield he might destroy it.
The only thing that's laughable here is how much you think you know and how insulting you treat people who should be regarded as your peers. Let's see you make the judgement calls. Make a thread dedicated to your infallible opinion on a perfect vision of the roster. If it's good enough I'll even PSA it for you so you can test it out yourself.
LOL me
I was never accepted into the BMBR. sry
I was never accepted into the BMBR. sry
NEWB
Well-Known Member
To be fair, I like Ike but I don't like razing eruption. It feels kinda random and doesn't seem tricky to pull off. Is it easy to avoid?
I'm also pretty sure it isn't canon but then again apparently he never had red flames and he's earth type or something. And it's not like wario has ever used rocket farts to get around everywhere.... So I guess fire plus Ike is just brawls fault and we are sticking to it.
I'm also pretty sure it isn't canon but then again apparently he never had red flames and he's earth type or something. And it's not like wario has ever used rocket farts to get around everywhere.... So I guess fire plus Ike is just brawls fault and we are sticking to it.
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
BTW, when I started a new file on a second Wii, none of the unlockable stages were unlocked automati
Were they supposed to be? Random Stage Select was 100% unlocked, and all characters were too.
Guess I'll have to unlock them normally. -.-
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/928518-super-smash-bros-brawl/cheats
Were they supposed to be? Random Stage Select was 100% unlocked, and all characters were too.
Guess I'll have to unlock them normally. -.-
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/928518-super-smash-bros-brawl/cheats
Darxmarx
The Learning Star Warrior
Wait, really? That's odd...
you could always store a Brawl 100% file on your SD card and put it on your Wii everytime you want to switch the wifi server. you would get a new friend code each time, though...
PowerUp
Well-Known Member
Haha wow, Kien. Maybe your gigantic rant and endless theorycrafting would carry some actual weight if you had the skill to back it up. Sorry, testing out the power of moves against standing CPUs on FD isn't good enough.
You're always whining about Glyph not understanding balance, or Glyph wanting to play favorites with ROB, or whatever. Talk about projection. Buffing Link? You're overloading my BS detector. It's emitting smoke, and little springs are popping out. You are so jealous of him it's nauseating, and frankly, you should be. He's on another level, both competitively, and understanding character design. Are you going to hate on me behind my back too if start playing too well or disagreeing too much?
You claim to want to work with and help the community, but in reality, you only seek vindication for your self-serving designs. That's all there is to it.
You're always whining about Glyph not understanding balance, or Glyph wanting to play favorites with ROB, or whatever. Talk about projection. Buffing Link? You're overloading my BS detector. It's emitting smoke, and little springs are popping out. You are so jealous of him it's nauseating, and frankly, you should be. He's on another level, both competitively, and understanding character design. Are you going to hate on me behind my back too if start playing too well or disagreeing too much?
You claim to want to work with and help the community, but in reality, you only seek vindication for your self-serving designs. That's all there is to it.
NEWB
Well-Known Member
lol
Who is the one theory crafting here? Your post there wasn't any less baseless then kien. It was literally off base. You don't look like you know more than kien when you abandon the discussion and start insulting him.
And THAT goes for kien too. He actually ruined his point by putting jabs in there.
And glyph is just one guy. He is an asset but not a LOT more useful then the rest of us since maybe one or two other people here are at his level. We need more people at glyphs level before things he specifically says becomes more meaningful than what everyone else says. His opinions hold as much weight regarding his mains as it does someone else regarding their main.
Who is the one theory crafting here? Your post there wasn't any less baseless then kien. It was literally off base. You don't look like you know more than kien when you abandon the discussion and start insulting him.
And THAT goes for kien too. He actually ruined his point by putting jabs in there.
And glyph is just one guy. He is an asset but not a LOT more useful then the rest of us since maybe one or two other people here are at his level. We need more people at glyphs level before things he specifically says becomes more meaningful than what everyone else says. His opinions hold as much weight regarding his mains as it does someone else regarding their main.