I'm not really seeing how ftilt and dtilt are comparable when you look at the distances. But a lot of characters have this as well. Puff's Side B, FSmash, and dtilt all move her forward. But I wouldn't want any of them removed.
I don't know how this is relevant but I strongly disagree on the statement, and that Zelda is in need of major buffs. Jiggs having three moves to displace her makes sense for me because she has no projectiles, compared to Olimar who can toss 6 rapidly and then pluck more, rapidly. Add to this the fact that his projectiles ensnare opponents and launch, I don't think the two characters are comparable in that regard. Yes, they each have multiple moves that move each of them forward, but one having them compensates for a lack of range, where as the other compensates for what? [side note: i know that Lucas' side-b can move him forward along with his ftilt, and Marth's fSmash can do the same as well as his neutral b, and these characters have range, but of these moves only Lucas' ftilt is as easily spammable as any of Olimar's, whereas both of Olimar's forward-moving attacks are easily spammed, and only Jigg's dtilt is easily spammed; Ike used to be able to easily spam his forward moving QD on the ground, but this was removed as well despite not being listed in any changelogs).
This is pretty one sided considering most Zelda's I've seen have switched to Sheik and vise versa.
Don't accidentally transform.
Agreed, but mostly for competitive play. Doubles is heavily hindered because of the terrible mechanic that doesn't benefit any of the players. I'm surprised mechanics like these take this long to get fixed/addressed.
They are comparable simply because they lead to him being moved forward. Comparisons are generally made when qualities are shared between the two objects/subjects being compared, no?
It's relevant because you claimed that there was "no good reason" for Sheik and Zelda to be separated as characters, thus I gave you one in addition to the others I gave. Granted, because these reasons are being interpreted subjectively, any can be determined as not being "good" or "relevant." Add to that the fact that it being "one-sided" would imply that you too see what I see, or that I see what you see, that is to say that you would see most people playing the character(s) to play them exclusively, or I would be seeing people playing them and purposely switching between them. Saying that the mechanic shouldn't be changed because "don't transform" is like saying that roads shouldn't be cleaned because "don't step on hazards" (that's an analogy and not meant to be taken literally). I myself don't have trouble accidentally transforming, but I've seen that others do. If both our opinions hold any credence, the argument is two-sided at best. Furthermore, removing the transformation from each character wouldn't disable anyone who likes to use both, only make it so that they would need to stick to the character they choose upon selection, until returning to the CSS. To reiterate, reasons to separate the characters are, at least in my perspective (and I try to be as objective as possible if my verbosity and verbal precision haven't implied that already):
1. Sheik and Zelda's transformation's intended use (in Melee in Brawl) was to build up damage with Sheik, who had plenty of combo options but lacked killing power, and kill as Zelda, who lacked combo options but possessed numerous killing options. In Minus neither of these characters possess these issues, as both have ample combo potential as well as killing potential. Granted, Zelda's combos require calculated precision, and Sheik needs to built up damage beyond 100% in many cases, the former simply requires practice and the latter is mitigated by the fact that Sheik can now build damage
much faster.
2. Sheik and Zelda could each be given a unique down-b.
2.5. For those of us who exclusively use a single character of the two, it's like we don' have a down-b to begin with.
2.75. For those who do use the transformation, I would like to know what the logic is in transforming when Sheik's lack of range in comparison to Zelda is compensated for by her speed and overall mobility, whereas Zelda's lack of those things which Sheik possesses is compensated for by her range and zoning capability. "Mind-games" sounds like something people would say in this regard, but any skilled player would be able o adapt to he set of potential mind-games to expect upon witnessing the transformation.
3. The shield cancel is a cop-out for the characters not being separated imo, and likely was added to compensate for accidental transformations (or mind-games but I already address this), which shows that saying something like "don't accidentally transform" isn't actually a sensible thing to say in this regard.
3.5. In the event that you transform prematurely, though you may
want to turn into Sheik or Zelda from either, shielding at the latest possible point in the animation leaves you with the same character you started the transformation with, rather than the one you intended to transform into. So if you expect a punish and shield, you still won't be where you expected to be in terms of being either character if the move is intercepted. Granted, this can be used for potential mind-games as well, he raw quantity and quality of possible mind-games would be higher for each character if each had a down-special exclusive to her.
Even if transform is to be kept, I recommend that it be possible to shield later within the animation (perhaps with some sort of visual cue) so that one could end up being the character intended, and/or the transformation be made so that it requires a held down-b input in order to execute, so that each character could still have a down-b if tapped (the actual variants could be alternated, but moving transform to a "hold" input even if just held for a few frames longer would make accidental inputs less self-punishing).
Finally (in regard to EpicNonBread at least), balancing is always considered with respect to competitive play, I would say. If considered with regards to casual play I wouldn't call it "balancing", but just modding for w/e other sake. I'm glad we see eye-to-eye on this, and I hope you don't see my dissection of logic as hostile, as it is simply a way for me to establish that one argument consists of more consistency than the others.
Player_03 says the transformation can be canceled with an A move, although the friends of mine who have mashed every button on their controller numerous times when attempting to avoid transforming (or just mashing out of frustration) never seem to execute this. This is similar to how, despite being told that Ganondorf's dSmash hits connect, it doesn't appear that way for me. I'm assuming that I may be downloading the patch from the site or loading it on Wii/Dolphin in an inconsistent manner in this case, and hence would like to know how to remedy this.
Furthermore, I don't think GANONDORF needs more combo throws, since he's intended to be a read/bait&punish character. I would say one combo option for each set of his moves (aerials, grounded normals, specials, but obv not smashes even if usmash combos sometimes at low percents) is sensible. Or, if more of his throws are going to lead to combos, they should each be at different percent ranges, with dThrow working at the lowest percents. I could see uThrow working as a later combo starter rather than being a late(r) kill move, esp. since its multihits make it punishable in teams/FFA.
Also ZSS' dThrow should be sped up imo. As much as I like her I don't think she should have a pseudo-taunt in her throw, or maybe the slow-down should be optional upon holding down on the analog stick during the throw.
I rly hope devs will read this and not ignore it despite how long/detailed it is. I'm only writing so much for the sake of being thorough. I would mod the game myself but at this point Minus simply has a bigger (albeit not sure how big because of issues regarding community cohesion/activity) audience. I share in Young Boy Bread's sentiment of wanting actual [constructive] dev inputs including their thoughts on my suggestions and reasonings behind their thoughts, with a willingness to entertain continued discussions as well.
Remove every psuedo wave-dash, redesign Fox: We will not be redesigning Fox this late in the game.
