BRAWL MINUS DEV STREAM! SUNDAY 8PM EST/5PM PST
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Glyph
Moderator
Wow I can't believe how many people have spelled this out and it's still not sinking in.
The problem here is not the punch, its Ganon. You put a move with that much wind up on it on Mario, and he's dead. Peach too, she lacks the vertical recovery. I'd even bet Marth would be boned. A ton of characters would be, so why are you treating it like the move itself is the problem?
Do you not see how hamhanded the 'safe version' is? Why would warlock punch get flub hitboxes and move ganon upwards? You said it yourself, the punch is not a recovery move. Both changes scream 'i can't do this consistently, but the problem isn't me it must be the game.'
(That isn't the problem)
Edit: I'm gunna step up as a mod here and say this is the end of the discussion. You have a thread you can talk about how swell the move is in off topic, feel free to move there and talk to your heart's content. Any more here will be infracted.
The problem here is not the punch, its Ganon. You put a move with that much wind up on it on Mario, and he's dead. Peach too, she lacks the vertical recovery. I'd even bet Marth would be boned. A ton of characters would be, so why are you treating it like the move itself is the problem?
Do you not see how hamhanded the 'safe version' is? Why would warlock punch get flub hitboxes and move ganon upwards? You said it yourself, the punch is not a recovery move. Both changes scream 'i can't do this consistently, but the problem isn't me it must be the game.'
(That isn't the problem)
Edit: I'm gunna step up as a mod here and say this is the end of the discussion. You have a thread you can talk about how swell the move is in off topic, feel free to move there and talk to your heart's content. Any more here will be infracted.
Greatest_Aether
Forum Reg of sorts
Is there any kind of release date in the air? Because saying "before Half Life 3" isn't exactly answering the question.
The reason why a release date hasn't been announced is because we aren't far into development enough to confidently state when we will have a release timeframe. As soon as we are certain of the game being able to come out on X Date, we'll make an announcement regarding that.
But Bowser already has infinite jumps!
provided you keep Koopa hopping anyways
I want to believe that that's a timely pun.
I have no idea what this is.
It's a (really easy) tech Bowser has left over from vBrawl. You basically can jump forever if you Koopa Hop, which is just pressing jump right before you hit the ground while in SideB endlag.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Mario should be able to make it back with his dair and double up+B. Peach is so floaty she'd probably be fine [wallbombing anyone?]. Marth is a floaty with huge vertical recovery. In fact, if Bent doesn't mind, I'd highly advise him to strap the current Warlock Punch [sans cancel] to these characters and test it, because it's Ganondorf's low jump and high fallspeed that are the problem, not the move duration.
I don't think it needs flub hitboxes. I've said that before.
And you've fully ignored the blatant contradiction I've pointed out multiple times, namely that people state how hard the move is to land, then claim that it would be "too good" when they fail to realize it's totally unreliable - the critical flaw is that the calculation must be risk/reward/reliability, not risk/reward, or else Falcon Punch is the most broken offstage move ever [that would be Falco's dair actually]. You can infract and ban me to your heart's content, but that won't excuse your inability to rectify this inherent inconsistency so many arguments here hold, and why I will still refuse to think the arguments presented hold water.
Also I may have to make the text in my sig larger because of this bogus argumentation people think they can use to deny a change that was in Minuse for the longest time when Warlock Punches weren't prevalent offstage anyway - empirically, warlock punch having a cancel didn't result in people all of a sudden landing millions of them, or in Ganondorf being ungimpable - they simply lent the players a bit more freedom to do something silly in an FFA without a guaranteed death [so not only are the arguments presented inconsistent, they are empirically denied, which should be raising huge red flags to everyone]. Removing that freedom not only makes FFAs a lot less fun [that's basically the only time to throw them offstage anyway], but it's just boring and limits a move that could be more useful [either with a cancel or an entirely different aerial version, which I've also suggested in here multiple times and has been 100% ignored]. I'm unclear why people are dedicated to making sure 'Dorf has a move that can't be used in the air when other moves can [sing-stalling, rest up high or combo into rest which is more than the punch can do, Pit's whip got changed to be a cool command glide, RR is the galactic crusher in air, the list goes on], when either reducing endlag, having it pop him up some [no not with a flub hitbox] or changing the functionality of the move in the air would be wholly sufficient to remove this problem [and eliminate all discussion of it].
Like, make it make him helpless in the air, at least so I know the dev team is adamantly opposed to making every move in Minus useful in a situation that isn't "herp derp I broke their shield when that's impossible for dorf to do with any semblance of reliability ever", then at least I'll know one of the [what I thought was] cornerstone goals of Minus "make it better" is a lie. [And also "act like it isn't broken and break it until it becomes at least usable" is no longer believed as well.]
I guess I shouldn't expect good argumentation skills from people who mod games for fun. Not a setting conducive to nuanced debate. Everyone in here thinks they're making good arguments, but they're mostly empirically denied and sustained off huge internal contradictions [or blatant ideological bias, which means debate simply won't occur]. Proposing multiple solutions and compromises and effective refutation are what constitute "good arguments". I've proposed numerous reasons to change and provided counterexamples, as well as drawn on Minus history to explain why claims made here are illogical. You can try to assume a position where you degrade others when you do the same, not before.
But until someone provides a solid reason why only one character should have a move that can't be combo'd into, onstage or off, that is literal suicide to use offstage, and won't be replaced with something that is not suicide, when in the past this thing existing wasn't broken at all [in fact it was only slightly less useless than now] when other characters can combo into zero-death moves [Link], I will continuously refute the claim that this reversion to a previous state would now be broken when it never was before, or that there shouldn't be a change to the move. Every other move in Minus is useful, so until someone provides a reason why 'Dorf is special and should be worse, I will continue to refute the arguments presented, because they are bad.
P.S: IF the punch was removed entirely, left as only the douken [or a douken always fired, so it was always both moves as one], I'd STILL be happier with the move than I am as it stands.
We project M again.
You cannot wall bomb in Brawl.
AeroIncarnated
The Only Hero
It was a pretty fun stream overall. We had some laughs. Talked about the dreamcast dying out. Y'know minus stuff. The one thing I didn't like was I couldn't get a single person on the skype call to say the word Sprite once. I can get one of you to mention dora the explorer but not Sprite. I call johns. That's not fair to me or the people. I was told there would be sprite and I was lied to. I wanted to be shrekt but all I got was a bunch devs talking about their profile pictures and Pichu actually being a real character. Who cares if pichu is overpowered now. All tthe other characters were already overpowered to begin with. Pichu ain't doing anything new. Why can't the devs just accept Sprite as their one lord and savior. I'm tired of my people being oppressed by the this tyranny.
Alright I can't do it anymore with a straight face. This post is probably the stupidest thing I have ever posted on this site. That or maybe when I was spazing out about the smash 4 demo codes. Overall, good stream. Sad you didn't get it archived. Should definitely do it again as long as no huge arguements get brought up.And that fellas is how you stay on topic.
Alright I can't do it anymore with a straight face. This post is probably the stupidest thing I have ever posted on this site. That or maybe when I was spazing out about the smash 4 demo codes. Overall, good stream. Sad you didn't get it archived. Should definitely do it again as long as no huge arguements get brought up.And that fellas is how you stay on topic.
Greatest_Aether
Forum Reg of sorts
I said Sprite. I said AND I QUOTE: "Oh hey its the Sprite Master" also I apologize for asking about the avatars and what actions the developer team would undertake to obtain a treat known as a Klondike Bar.It was a pretty fun stream overall. We had some laughs. Talked about the dreamcast dying out. Y'know minus stuff. The one thing I didn't like was I couldn't get a single person on the skype call to say the word Sprite once. I can get one of you to mention dora the explorer but not Sprite. I call johns. That's not fair to me or the people. I was told there would be sprite and I was lied to. I wanted to be shrekt but all I got was a bunch devs talking about their profile pictures and Pichu actually being a real character. Who cares if pichu is overpowered now. All tthe other characters were already overpowered to begin with. Pichu ain't doing anything new. Why can't the devs just accept Sprite as their one lord and savior. I'm tired of my people being oppressed by the this tyranny.
Alright I can't do it anymore with a straight face. This post is probably the stupidest thing I have ever posted on this site. That or maybe when I was spazing out about the smash 4 demo codes. Overall, good stream. Sad you didn't get it archived. Should definitely do it again as long as no huge arguements get brought up.And that fellas is how you stay on topic.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Had thought it was re-added to Brawl Minus.
Will not say anything more because I'm pretty sure Glyph would love an excuse to infract me.
I think we suggested MLG Fox, I want MLG Fox vs Sprite Falco. The spacie hype would be so real.
Greatest_Aether
Forum Reg of sorts
Sprite Marth vs. MLG Roy because why not?
AeroIncarnated
The Only Hero
Oh i'm sorry I didn't know you were a dev. I also wasn't aware of you being in the skype call. Maybe just maybe I wasn't talking about you. Maybe.
Greatest_Aether
Forum Reg of sorts
Whoops. Didn't know you meant devs.
AeroIncarnated
The Only Hero
Definitely wasn't talking about the devs. What would give you that idea?
Greatest_Aether
Forum Reg of sorts
TL;DRDefinitely wasn't talking about the devs. What would give you that idea?
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