It can't really be "fixed" because this is the intended behavior. You shouldn't be trying to trade with a Falcon Punch. Stop him before or punish after.
Brawl Minus 4.0b Bug Report Thread
- Thread starter Pin Clock
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Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
My main concern is with the fact that Marth can safely protect himself from a Falcon Punch by countering the first hit and Ike can do all but avoid the final hit. I haven't tested it with Roy, though.
Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
err... i was replying to the toon link arrow one... not the falcon punch.
Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
There's this glitch that I've always encountered with Roy since he was added to Minus, and it's that at some point, his sword trail will become pure white. Many times it happens mid-match and doesn't change until I restart Minus.
Also I think it's been mentioned before, but Pit has a glitch where if he cancels his up-b repeatedly below FD, he'll get stuck in the startup animation of the move infinitely until he drops to his death for some reason.
Furthermore, ik this is not a glitch, but I cannot stress how silly the AI is. As Ganondorf, I can literally uTilt most characters to death and not get touched at all.
Also I think it's been mentioned before, but Pit has a glitch where if he cancels his up-b repeatedly below FD, he'll get stuck in the startup animation of the move infinitely until he drops to his death for some reason.
Furthermore, ik this is not a glitch, but I cannot stress how silly the AI is. As Ganondorf, I can literally uTilt most characters to death and not get touched at all.
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Cancelling Fox's side B by holding R before he moves creates a strange effect. He will slide for a longer time (about 0.75 seconds) with no animation and no phantasms following him. There is still a hitbox but it acts very differently. It will, inconsistently, carry the opponent with the hitboxes. I did actually find this useful. I could input the, tech, and once I got past my opponent I could back air them, more consistently than just randomly guessing the timing normally, and my momentum slow not to a complete halt, but not as much as normal. This all does not apply to Falco because he cannot cancel his phantasm.
Valravn
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's been in the game for a few versions. You can grab out of it, which is pretty crazy. You can cancel illusion into anything, and that's basically just cancelling illusion into an airdodge. It looks like a bug because it looks jank as hell, but I think it's more of a feature at this point.
I didn't see it on the bug list, but if there isn't any sort of animation while he's moving, that's not really an intentional decision (Not that I'm saying that you are implying that it is). I actually can't cancel it into a wavedash, but I think that's the only thing.
But what if they gave him Pit's aerial side b as a second move for Fox in the air?
But what if they gave him Pit's aerial side b as a second move for Fox in the air?
Valravn
Well-Known Member
I thought you were still talking about the air-slide out of side B. You can't jump out of the slide, so you can't wavedash out of it, but I'm not sure what would prevent wavedashing out of illusion normally.
EDIT: I haven't been able to do it either after some testing, though I'm not sure if that's because I'm bad at Fox or whether it's impossible. Might be something to double check for any other Fox players around.
EDIT: I haven't been able to do it either after some testing, though I'm not sure if that's because I'm bad at Fox or whether it's impossible. Might be something to double check for any other Fox players around.
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Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
Fox has another mechanic I noticed back in 3.Q, where he could avoid helplessness after the Melee dodge by inputting a Reflector well before Fox begins falling after the dodge. With uncanny precision it allows him to Melee dodge indinitely into reflectors as it seems to refresh his dodges.
Although, I've never seen this be implemented in competitive use, it's pretty funny. I personally don't think it need be removed, as all it could do is assist Fox in recovering from below, and even then the frames in which one would perform the reflector are super-precise.
Oh, and on another unrelated note, I feel like the power of Luigi's Green Missile and his Fire Jump Punch should be swapped. It seems uncanny for Luigi to kill at ~80% by safely spamming side-b against many characters. His strongest kill move is now overshadowed by one of his more inconsistent ones. Both moves were initially created to be inconsistent unless used with absolute precision, which is what made Luigi who he was. I think that the misfire should be controllable to some degree, perhaps charging it overtime and storing a charge at a time by dodging out of the move. As for the Fire Jump Punch, it should be restored to its original power, however with slightly larger hitboxes on its sweetspot, and with its sourspot dealing negligible knockback, but reasonable damage.
Although, I've never seen this be implemented in competitive use, it's pretty funny. I personally don't think it need be removed, as all it could do is assist Fox in recovering from below, and even then the frames in which one would perform the reflector are super-precise.
Oh, and on another unrelated note, I feel like the power of Luigi's Green Missile and his Fire Jump Punch should be swapped. It seems uncanny for Luigi to kill at ~80% by safely spamming side-b against many characters. His strongest kill move is now overshadowed by one of his more inconsistent ones. Both moves were initially created to be inconsistent unless used with absolute precision, which is what made Luigi who he was. I think that the misfire should be controllable to some degree, perhaps charging it overtime and storing a charge at a time by dodging out of the move. As for the Fire Jump Punch, it should be restored to its original power, however with slightly larger hitboxes on its sweetspot, and with its sourspot dealing negligible knockback, but reasonable damage.
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Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
That sounds like something that should be looked into regardless of how precise it is. Being able to stall infinitely is godawful game design.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Luigi Shoryuken needs a power buff, and I think his misfires could stand to use some knockback reduction. I agree with Lucis Perficio that misfires killing before up+b is silly.
[Note that this may need to be done carefully, as Luigi sort of has dthrow misfire at some percents, but I know he also has uthrow up+b at some percentages, and I think the range for it is wider.]
[Note that this may need to be done carefully, as Luigi sort of has dthrow misfire at some percents, but I know he also has uthrow up+b at some percentages, and I think the range for it is wider.]
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Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
My point is that it's hardly useful at all without TAS-level precision. My friend who discovered it fails consistently in using it to recover from failed waveshine-spike attempts. I agree it should be looked into, but there's yet to be any reason to remove it, whereas everything else that was removed thus far was at least seen to have some sort of application.
Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
Yeah I think the base power of a Green Missile could be upped. Or hell, maybe the misfire could retain all its knockback and just deal less damage?
Thor
Well-Known Member
No no no I mistyped pretty badly.
Sweetspot green missile [hitting with the early part] kills pretty reliably at around 70% [earlier on lightweights... I usually net KOs on people at 60% from onstage because a lot of the people I play with (or played with) used lightweights a lot]. The late part of the move is not very strong, but the early part is STUPIDLY powerful.
I think the sweetspot should be toned down and the sweetspot of Shoryuken buffed. I do not think the rest of green missile needs to be nerfed either, but I WILL state that strong green missile doing as much damage as it does now in conjunction with an up+b buff would give Luigi far more KO power than he needs [and frankly he's already a character with no shortage of KO moves, see 4 of his 5 aerials (not uair), all of his smash attacks, 3 of his 5 b-moves (counting thunderhand and fireball separately, we have green missile, up+b [an option but a lackluster one given the precision required and potential punishment on whiff from fastfallers], and thunderhand), and bthrow].
Valravn
Well-Known Member
It's a long stall, but it's not infinite because people can't move their fingers that fast. He'll fall eventually, and meanwhile he's a sitting duck. (Sorta.)
I'd like to note that the Pichu on my Wii doesn't seem to be experiencing the same Rayman Leg bug that I've seen on here. I have admittedly only used the Minun texture; I wonder if it's a texture-specific bug? I launch through Configurable USB Loader and have my hook type set to AXNextFrame.
Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
Wolf's up-B doesn't seem to sweetspot sometimes. Occasionally, he'll deal all the hits but the last one and slide past the opponent. I do this often against CPUs and they seldom escape the move despite me catching them in it directly. I'm sure it's due to Wolf's new aerial mobility, but I was wondering if this could be fixed.
Mawootad
Minus Backroom
For anyone interested in GW's judge becoming unavailable during matches for some reason, the cause of the glitch is filling the last charge of your bucket by absorbing a projectile. After that the next time you use judge, judge will become unavailable (or immediately if you used judge less than 25 frames ago). Your bucket will also stop flashing when filled if any of the charges are from taunts. Respawning should not affect this. If anyone experiences this glitch and it does not meet one or more of these aspects I would really love to get a replay file for that game.
Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
When starting a match next to Zelda, it's essentially impossible to escape an instant combo. This is most apparent when playing others i nstages where you might spawn close together, or in FFA. Her jab's ranged hitbox appears much too quickly for anyone to escape once the game begins, even Captain Falcon with a jump or his dash. And if you perfect block, she's instantly ready to release another ranged jab, or teleport to you with the first one (or any of the ones she decides to fake you out with) and start a combo.
Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
It's the follow-ups that give me trouble. I can powershield the first hit easily, but as I've said, doing this doesn't save you from Zelda teleporting toward you and doing something else, or simply repeatedly attacking you with the same hit-box, forcing you to constantly power shield until the moment she decided to teleport toward you and grab you.
Lucis Perficio
Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
Yeah you'd think one of those things would work absolutely, but when you need to think whether to grab, jump, or roll, it makes things difficult. Esp. if Zelda teleports BEHIND you. If I opt for the grab, she might go for more jabs. If I go for the roll, she could wait for me with a dsmash (if rolled to her side) or an fsmash (if I roll away). Go for the jump, and I may easily catch a lightning kick.
I don't think things should demand specific formulaic responses for them to be considered 'balanced' but that's just me.