Brawl Minus 3.Q is all Qued up and ready to go!

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Pretty sure you're trying to bait me with the insult, so I'll just play you when I get back.
Yes, I was completely insulting you by saying my Link is better than yours by a longshot. Comparing skill is insulting in competitive play it would seem.

If Link is so great why'd he get a slew of buffs while Ness gets these ridiculously stupid nerfs, and it's established that Link is worse than Ness? If this is your idea of balance, then I'm not going to beat around the bush: You're really damn stupid. Or else reverse these Ness nerfs because they're certainly doing him no favors against Link...
GnW gets none of that and can't make it under - he has arguably the worst recovery in game thanks to that.

EDIT:

If you want me to join the brawl, I will - I'm just saying I think you're both in the wrong here.

Link got buffs because he hadn't received a buff since the beta, he had only been reworked what with hidden skills. Also, I didn't touch Ness at all. I was going to hit his dthrow and call it a day. You should try and fight a Ness with someone who can't spike or gimp safely. He's much more of a problem.

So GnW's OhKO doesn't mean anything, or his falling spike that he can recover from. I guess those can't compensate to the fact that his parachute lets him land on stage anywhere he wants if he gets knocked vertically. Or the fact that he never has to enter special fall. You need to reevaluate some things, that's for sure.
 

SunderStorm

Active Member
Am I the only one that's unsatisfied with the abysmal about of PR that Brawl Minus has? This patch was released and all it got on /r/smashbros was a post that got 10 upvotes. Discussion about this game is basically zilch in the general community. It's pretty silly to see that Super Smash Bros Flash is getting more attention than this game. And this bad, or lack of rep entirely isn't entirely without consequence. I think I've said this before but it took me basically took me an entire year for me to convince people at my university that Brawl Minus isn't just some gimmicky mod for jokes and that it's actually a legitimate game.

I don't really know where to even start on this issue and it might even be too late, but I bet some cool up to date footage to show the community would go a long way. For example this combo video from like 3 years ago:

I don't really have a way to record video (or even a consistent group to play the game with atm) Would any of you be up to the task?

P.S. I'm going to be in Chicago for about half a week sometime mid-August. Anyone there that wants to meet and play some Minus?
 
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Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
Am I the only one that's unsatisfied with the abysmal about of PR that Brawl Minus has? This patch was released and all it got on /r/smashbros was a post that got 10 upvotes. Discussion about this game is basically zilch in the general community. It's pretty silly to see that Super Smash Bros Flash is getting more attention than this game. And this bad, or lack of rep entirely isn't entirely without consequence. I think I've said this before but it took me basically took me an entire year for me to convince people at my university that Brawl Minus isn't just some gimmicky mod for jokes and that it's actually a legitimate game.

I don't really know where to even start on this issue and it might even be too late, but I bet some cool up to date footage to show the community would go a long way. For example this combo video from like 3 years ago:

I don't really have a way to record video (or even a consistent group to play the game with atm) Would any of you be up to the task?

P.S. I'm going to be in Chicago for about half a week sometime mid-August. Anyone there that wants to meet and play some Minus?
I remember seeing that vid and noticing it had one of the highest view counts for a minus vid.

I plugged Minus really hard at Evo and got a couple big names to play it(M2K hated it lol) I also got a couple of my buddies from when I lived in Canada to play it(Kage and Vwins are their tags), doq is working on making professional looking vids for the BDot tourney going on. I started a Power Rankings Back Room. We're trying to get the game out to people and look legit while doing it. We're even looking for people to go back and do commentary over the vids. I think it would be awesome for you to help us out somehow!
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Gold_TSG said:
You know, Thor, Glyph isn't the be all end all player on this forum. I've beaten him my fair share, and I have my own play styles. If I challenge you as someone, it's to face ME, not alternate-Glyph. Stop pretending like he's the best thing on the forum.

I'll play your Ness. Didn't say I wouldn't.

Kienamaru said:
Link got buffs because he hadn't received a buff since the beta, he had only been reworked what with hidden skills. Also, I didn't touch Ness at all. I was going to hit his dthrow and call it a day. You should try and fight a Ness with someone who can't spike or gimp safely. He's much more of a problem.
So GnW's OhKO doesn't mean anything, or his falling spike that he can recover from. I guess those can't compensate to the fact that his parachute lets him land on stage anywhere he wants if he gets knocked vertically. Or the fact that he never has to enter special fall. You need to reevaluate some things, that's for sure.

Who in this game can't gimp or spike Ness safely??? Lucas? Ness? ICs? Dedede? Wolf? MK can (unless his damage is so pitful he armors through it all), Olimar can, Diddy Kong can, Marth can, Snake can, [Falco can,] Pikachu can, ZSS can (sort of), Wario can, Lucario can, Toon Link can, Fox can, GnW can, Pit can, Peach can, Kirby definitely can, Ike can, Sheik can, Yoshi can, Luigi can, PT can, Mario can, Samus... well, ok, skip that one, Bowser can, Captain Falcon can, Link should (nair him to death), Jiggs can, Zelda can, and Ganondorf can.

GnW's OHKO is his wild card (that's his comeback factor, but it's not exactly reliable), his falling spike is unimpressive (tons of characters can do that and do it better), that's why you smack GnW horizontally when you edgeguard him, force the DI and fewer options, and whoopdedoo Snake and Lucario never enters it either and they're better characters. He's still outclassed by like everyone. The thing he has going for him is his annoying movement speed, but I think Sonic and Wario are worse in that regard.

And yes Gold_TSG I'll play your GnW too.

@MegaSaturn99 lol Kage played it? What did he think?

EDIT: Also, Sunderstorm, I agree - I think stopping the use of MS paint would be a decent starting point, personally... though of course that's far from insufficient. And people like SSBF more? That's just... disappointing...
 

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
@MegaSaturn99 lol Kage played it? What did he think?
He was pretty lukewarm. vwins really liked it though, and said he was bringing it back to his playgroup in Canada. Which includes Kage. So hopefully we'll get a larger Canadian playerbase soon cause as far as I can tell I'm the only Canadian here, even though I live in TX :p
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
Am I the only one that's unsatisfied with the abysmal about of PR that Brawl Minus has? This patch was released and all it got on /r/smashbros was a post that got 10 upvotes. Discussion about this game is basically zilch in the general community. It's pretty silly to see that Super Smash Bros Flash is getting more attention than this game. And this bad, or lack of rep entirely isn't entirely without consequence. I think I've said this before but it took me basically took me an entire year for me to convince people at my university that Brawl Minus isn't just some gimmicky mod for jokes and that it's actually a legitimate game.

I don't really know where to even start on this issue and it might even be too late, but I bet some cool up to date footage to show the community would go a long way. For example this combo video from like 3 years ago:

I don't really have a way to record video (or even a consistent group to play the game with atm) Would any of you be up to the task?

P.S. I'm going to be in Chicago for about half a week sometime mid-August. Anyone there that wants to meet and play some Minus?
^^^^^^^^^^^this my gosh
this game needs more exposure. i know im going to start a scene in my state or something.
 

PowerUp

Well-Known Member
For starters, this is just a mod for a Wii game, and the real sequel is coming out in a few months. Brawl- will never become a household name, so get your expectations in order.

It IS a fun and fresh alternative to Brawl, and most people enjoy the craziness and generally more accurate character representation (*Samus*). I actually ran a 64 man team tournament this January (had to turn away 30+ on the waiting list). It was huge, but it had the same problem every Smash tournament does - 90% of the teams were just fodder for the handful of elite players who showed up. I think most of the players who simply got handled and combo'd into oblivion lost interest in the game right there. You should probably stop giving every other move a cancel.

That's really all there is to it. Project M is the competitive smash of choice, and nothing is going to change that, not even Smash 4. You'll never become popular with the super competitive crowd; don't even try. Instead, design minus to be more crazy and fun the way non-tournament players like. You can still build a large community through them.
 

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
For starters, this is just a mod for a Wii game, and the real sequel is coming out in a few months. Brawl- will never become a household name, so get your expectations in order.

It IS a fun and fresh alternative to Brawl, and most people enjoy the craziness and generally more accurate character representation (*Samus*). I actually ran a 64 man team tournament this January (had to turn away 30+ on the waiting list). It was huge, but it had the same problem every Smash tournament does - 90% of the teams were just fodder for the handful of elite players who showed up. I think most of the players who simply got handled and combo'd into oblivion lost interest in the game right there. You should probably stop giving every other move a cancel.

That's really all there is to it. Project M is the competitive smash of choice, and nothing is going to change that, not even Smash 4. You'll never become popular with the super competitive crowd; don't even try. Instead, design minus to be more crazy and fun the way non-tournament players like. You can still build a large community through them.
^This

I honestly think Smash 4 will get a much more warm welcome than Brawl, except for the people who complain about every game because it's "not like Melee". But seriously fuck those people.

I hosted a 102 man tourney during Spring Break. Never been anywhere close as it was then and I run weeklies.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
There are definitely some people who strongly dislike Project M and prefer Melee and some are even hoping for Smash 4. I just wish people would give new games a chance before quitting on them - maybe Sakurai saw that coming and gave up on trying to please people back in 2007...
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
For starters, this is just a mod for a Wii game, and the real sequel is coming out in a few months. Brawl- will never become a household name, so get your expectations in order.
first off, just because the sequel is coming doesn't mean i can't grow anything. people have different taste and the sequel might not appeal to them. Brawl minus, not only being free, has truely a unique gameplay experience that not other mod has.

It IS a fun and fresh alternative to Brawl, and most people enjoy the craziness and generally more accurate character representation (*Samus*). I actually ran a 64 man team tournament this January (had to turn away 30+ on the waiting list). It was huge, but it had the same problem every Smash tournament does - 90% of the teams were just fodder for the handful of elite players who showed up. I think most of the players who simply got handled and combo'd into oblivion lost interest in the game right there. You should probably stop giving every other move a cancel.
that was team. you ran a team tournament. big diff from singles where you'll most likely get around 7 hit combos, with 15 being at the max iirc.
EDIT: i also wanted to add that idk what you're trying to say here. if this is a problem with all smash tournaments, then its not a strike against us.

That's really all there is to it. Project M is the competitive smash of choice, and nothing is going to change that, not even Smash 4. You'll never become popular with the super competitive crowd; don't even try. Instead, design minus to be more crazy and fun the way non-tournament players like. You can still build a large community through them.
contradiction. first you said because brawl minus is a mod, it will never truly grow since the sequel is coming. now, you say, project m, another mod, cant be stopped by a true sequel. Whats even worse is you first imply that brawl minus can't truly grow because of the true sequel, but now you're saying it will grow if it becomes nothing but a party game for non-tournament players. Do you realize no casual will pass up the new smash game in favor of a mod of a older game that none of them probably don't know how to set up?

Lastly, you like to imply that we're trying to compete against project m for competitive players. What you're ignoring is that we can live along project m, we're not big companies, we're just dudes who love games. What we offer is somethig that cant be replicated, we're unique. As long as we keep that uniqueness, we have a chance is grab players. Heck, i remember we had a guy/girl from spain in chatroom sometime who said that he/she didnt like project m that much and liked B- for its gameplay. I really want to put emphasis on this, we can live along side with project m because we're not companies, we're not trying to control a market (it would be an infringement in copyright laws to do so, since it's still sakurai's game; we as players just modded to suit our needs), we're just trying to share something we love. . In fact, we could possibly get some big names in the community to give Brawl minus a try if we get a scene going on.
 
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PowerUp

Well-Known Member
Improve your reading comprehension, Sneak. It's really not that difficult to understand the meaning of my post. You and others here need to get over your Project M envy. It should be enough to enjoy this game without having other people validate it for you.
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
Improve your reading comprehension, Sneak. It's really not that difficult to understand the meaning of my post. You and others here need to get over your Project M envy. It should be enough to enjoy this game without having other people validate it for you.
you really need to read first, understand second, and post last plz, thnx.
 

Doqtor Kirby

Resident Design Nitpicker
Minus Backroom
Srsly. I don't think the Developers like you guys shitting up the release thread with useless debating.
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
it was merely a couple posts and that wasn't my intent.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Jiggs wasn't even touched... neither was Marth... kinda easy for you to say to Glyph and some others.

But I'll listen if the others do. It's still very well-put together overall, most people here just want things to be perfect. I think most of us would agree over 75% of the cast is doing well in the mod [no steps taken backward or immediate fixes needed], and the stage list did improve compared to 3.5.
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
you ryte.

I haven't really talked about the changes so ima lay out my opinion on this.



Characters note**- i edited out some chars that i dont have an opinion on.

Bowser
Super Armor restored Side Smash, Side Smash Charge, and Dash Attack.
This is really nice against chars like falco, olimar, and the like since he is such a big char

Diddy Kong
fastfall and gravity speeds increased

Fthrow
bkb decreased slightly
If i knew any better, this would increase combo potential of this move.
uair, nair, bair
damage -1%

Monkey flip
invincibility traded for armor
landing lag increased on missed kick.

UP-B
press Shield to launch the jetpack off of diddy, while charging.
This is a new high risk/reward move for Diddy. While he gets a new projectile that carries opponents for 1% per hit, but only explodes on contact with the ground (pulling foes inwards) or when time is up (90 frames), it also comes with the fact that he can't use up-B at ALL while it's out and is punishable when it starts, because of his lag. The flight trajectory is also pretty random.
This is really neat. However, when i firsted messed with this move, it felt unreliable since it hard to hit with the sweetspot iirc.

Ganondorf
Utilt
replaced with a magical uppercut. It multihits and sets up giving Ganon a reliable low percent ground to air attack with good range and low ending lag. Not good for KOing however.
I can just smell the Utlilt ---> Uair strings ---> Side B explosion right now. excellent given his char design

Down Smash
replaced with his old Utilt. Ganon is now able to charge his explosive heel drop and release it when he actually needs to. Though it doesn't cover the entire stage anymore. It also causes a dark geyser that also hits behind him, making for a good surprise on his foes.

Warlock Punch (Neutral B) Aerial
On hit cancel added.
The move being suicidal in the air wasn't a flat-out bad thing, but if Ganon can actually manage to jump off the stage and smack a dude in the face with it, he should be able to recover. If not, he deserves to die for not being able to properly show off, which in that case he should have stuck to a more reliable off-stage kill method.

Wizard's Foot (Down B) Grounded
Invincibility removed from arm and shoulder.
Invincibility moved from startup to frame 6.
Slowed FSMs to normal adding 3 frames of start up to the attack.
Damage reduced by 2%.

Wizard's Foot (Down B) Aerial
Invincibility added to foot and leg after first 6 frames. Terminates with hitboxes.
Sweetspot extended to cover duration of hitboxes.
Landing damage increased by 2%.

Dark Dive
Graphics added to display claw attack afterwards.
Before, a lot of foes would be surprised that this connected. Now this move has accurate visual representation to show where it hits.

King Dedede
fTilt
Has been reverted to MAX 1.0
When his fTilt was originally using the 2.x.6 version, we found it discouraged Waddle-Dee focus and put it back on BnBs, where his heart should really go to his Dees. This should restore his focus on pure Waddle Power.
I dislike this change since it really makes his game one-dimensional, and one-dimensional chars are not only hard to deal with on a balancing level (absolutely crushes some MUs and dies like a heart attack on others), it offers no flexibility for players to manipulate; outside of glitches players find.

Meta Knight


fThrow
no longer gives the foe a beam sword
While a funny nod at first, Meta Knight just began to become discouraged from using fThrow due to it giving them a great projectile in beam sword. We traded honor for consistency, and MK now has his old fThrow back!
This change is really dope since now, i can combo into Up-b, Uair strings, and more from this.


Pichu
New model!
Pichu will no longer grow in size when being thrown!
Heal taunt removed.

Up Tilt
Knockback Values Changed.
29-28
29-2D (+4)
29-2D (+4)

Trajectories changed.
76-60
78-58
5A-58

Side Smash
Self damage increased by 2%.

Down Smash
Now has a proper false "aura" system. As Pichu's percent rises the move deals more damage and more self damage.
Deals 18% / 6% Self after 90.
Deals 15% / 5% Self between 31 & 89.
Deals 12% / 4% Self before 30.

Bair
Interrupt moved ahead 4 frames.

Dair
Base KB increased by 1
Self damage decreased from 3% but added in with looping hits.

Dair landing
Damage increased by 2%.
Base KB decreased.
Self damage decreased by 3%.

Pummel
Damage increased by 2%

Electroball
No longer stuns foes, and instead deals a set knockback.

Wild Charge
Now actually has KBG so it can be used as a kill move again.

Down B Hit
Will now connect with Pichu on the ground and in the air!
Damage Increased by 1%.
Shield Damage increased 15.
Self Damage increased by 4%.

This entire thing really. You guys should really remove the self damage thing, its not a good design choice outside of canon. slowly, all that dmg adds up, and then you're gonna be at 80%, which is kill % for pichu. you should be rewarded for doing dmg, not punished for it.

PT Charizard
No longer has impale on dAir or dSmash
why not? this actually helps me out alot since i get rewards for spacing right (plus, damaging moves like Fsmash can be of use here). Also, zard is really a limited char, since alot of his attacks are slow (Nair, Fair, jab1, jab2, and (which has problems with the tip, since it delievers almost no hitstun, allowing people to punish me for it, also retreating is not an option since i lose space, and zard w/o space=death.) are an exception to this)

PT Squirtle
Midair Jump
Heavy Armor removed

Dash Attack
Super Armor removed

Up Smash
Growth decreased by 10 on two strongest hitboxes.
After finding that dash attack true combos into this move in certain conditions, it proves to be too powerful to be so easy to land.

Hmmm. Nothing, but nerfs even though wario outclasses squirtle in every way...
[/Spoiler]

With that being said, have fun and Break the Limits![/QUOTE]
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
For the record, I liked the beam sword on MK fthrow, because it was awesome and let me use item play to amusing effect. I do understand why it left though, so whatever.
 

Glyph

Moderator
Keep an eye on PowerUp for this. Just played him online for the first time, he is bar none the best I've seen on wifi for minus. He beat my Rob with TL in 3.5, which means he did it without any of the new buffs too

Edit: Well oops, meant to post this in the BDOT thread but I guess it works here too.
 

Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
Makin me feel all loved like always Glyph. I've beaten your Rob with characters that struggle against projectiles, and lag aside, have had pretty even matches with PowerUp myself.
 
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Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Keep an eye on PowerUp for this. Just played him online for the first time, he is bar none the best I've seen on wifi for minus. He beat my Rob with TL in 3.5, which means he did it without any of the new buffs too

Edit: Well oops, meant to post this in the BDOT thread but I guess it works here too.

That's not true at all Glyph. No offense but your ROB has been beaten by more than just his TL. I mean, I beat him with 3.3 Link and 3.5 Lucario.
 
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