Brawl Minus 3.Q is all Qued up and ready to go!

[Neville]

Beating Link? Lucario can combo him for days and has good movement, ROB can combo too and has a projectile game to match, Falco gives him problems with his own reflectors, better projectile in lasers, great spiking, and flexible recovery, and Olimar can play the walling game since the boomerang hits Pikmin (I believe) and they can act as dummies for the bombs and arrows at the right heights., while tacking damage or forcing the projectiles to stop while he knocks them off

Fox also has a fine time dealing with Link's projectiles, as does Zelda (and she can just kick him!). If you're good with Raptor Boost, Captain Falcon definitely has the combo power and can put in serious work against Link (the projectile immunity on Raptor Boost is why I mention him).

Jiggs can also weave around stuff if you're careful (or just duck) and has the gimping power of other characters on this list as well.

Not sure about the physical side of the MU, but if projectiles are your bane, these characters might just have the tools you need.

Thanks. Sneak gave me some tips to use w/ Peach so I'll experiment a bit.

 

[DIjoe]

peach is a main of mine as well, and someone can beat link with her? am i missing something? GIVE ME TIPS TOO

 

[Thor]

Bowser vs Sonic - Bowser can't touch him at all because Sonic's extreme mobility allows him to keep Bowser in a constant state of hitstun and force him to attack, creating openings.

Unless they nerfed it, Whirling Fortress OoS is a strong option. Of course Sonic is much faster but if he's not careful the RR can probably catch him. This doesn't sound easy, but I'd think that Bowser's ability to KO super early (and Sonic probably not KOing Bowser until at least like 160%) and Bowser's strong OoS play make this less difficult than it otherwise would be. (It may also be why Bowser got some armor back).

Ness vs Marth - Ness doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and can't handle the pressure Marth applies. He also has no off-stage play against one of the better spikers.

Haven't played out this MU, but Ness can do silly things with PK Flash and PK fire to help mitigate pressure fairly well. Fair and Nair OoS are pretty strong options for Ness as well, but I can see that being offstage is very problematic for Ness - he'll always need proper DI and to conserve his second jump in the way a Melee Falco must do so - yeah you've gotta use it to get on stage but it CAN'T be eaten... rising fair helps his problems offstage a lot though. I should see about playing this MU (I can't play Marth offensively enough I don't think so I'll have to try it despite my questionable Ness).

Peach vs Link - Peach's power is nowhere near KO'ing Link at a decent %. She is completely overwhelmed by his powerful projectile game, which shuts down her primary method of movement (hovering).

Sounds just painful, though you said you were cooking up answers...

Who's a bad matchup against Pit?

I don't know who Pit solidly beats honestly... or if you're asking it the other way around [which is what I think you're asking], I don't think anyone hard counters him either - he's got a solid projectile, a reliable (safe on shield) approach, decent KO power, very strong recovery, decent mobility, and a reflector if the opponent is really projectile-heavy. I can't imagine he enjoys fighting Jigglypuff very much but I don't think that the MU would be terribly bad...

 

[The Concept]

Yeah, Bash isn't easy

 

[Bent 00]

Maybe I'm not understanding what slope or incline means. Because I only know what meaning for it.

Please see my post here.

 

[Tybis]

Please see my post here.

Ah, I see. The sparkle effect doesn't tilt with Zelda, but the hitbox does.

peach is a main of mine as well, and someone can beat link with her? am i missing something? GIVE ME TIPS TOO

I don't even play Peach, but I'd think that matchup would be only be doable for Peach if she spammed turnips... and chose one heck of a counterpick. Preferably, one that favors characters with a lot of aerial maneuverability?

 

[Thor]

I don't even play Peach, but I'd think that matchup would be only be doable for Peach if she spammed turnips... and chose one heck of a counterpick. Preferably, one that favors characters with a lot of aerial maneuverability?

LEGALIZE BIG BLUE!!! Is necessity for Peach to be tournament viable. Also still need some matches with The Concept there.

 

[The Concept]

LEGALIZE BIG BLUE!!! Is necessity for Peach to be tournament viable. Also still need some matches with The Concept there.

Indeed we do.

 

[DIjoe]

she gets forced into approaching against link because he has COMPLETELY superior projectile game. and link's tools are built to handle characters with WAY scarier rushdown than peach, so from what i've seen he pretty much dumpsters her. also, peach gets 150% syndrome alot and is only able to kill with forward air or forward smash, while link can kill much sooner.

 

[NEWB]

Peach can kill much sooner then that, but you have to chase offstage with float shenanigans to do that. Otherwise, I agree that link kills peach 10X over.

 

[Bent 00]

Sounds like Peach needs some buffs to help her against projectile spam.

On a different note, my Charizard-playing friend wants to know if you could make its Down B (Switch Pokemon) cancellable like Zelda's/Sheik's Transform is. He occasionally switches by mistake.

 

[PowerUp]

I think a fair buff to Peach would be to make neutral air invulnerable to projectiles. It looks the part, and would be reminiscent of Zangief's green hand thing. Most importantly, it would allow her to stay in the air, but wouldn't be abusable like so many of the semi-invulnerable rushdown moves (illusion, rotor, etc).

 

[Bent 00]

A couple things I want to mention real quick...

1.) The Character Select Screen looks OK on Standard Definition TVs, but on my 16:9 HDTV there are ugly white and gray bars on both sides of the screen.

2.) The game has frozen on me 4+ times at the first loading screen, when the little sparkle is animating. I think it's because I was tapping A to get through the loading screen faster; after each freeze, I would be sure to not press any buttons until the loading screens went away on their own, and then I had no problems loading 3.Q.

 

[NEWB]

I have the same ugly bars on my tv.

I really like that buff to peach's Nair. Anyone wanna tell me how this would be broken? I know that this may turn many of her mismatches to MUs now in her favor.

 

[PowerUp]

That buff wouldn't break her. Nair has a very short duration, so you would have to time it carefully. It also has no range, so it would not be abusable as an approach. Finally, you can't perform a nair while holding a turnip, so you must choose between waging a projectile war, and attempting to approach through your opponent's projectiles.

 

[Thor]

Sounds interesting... given the mention of broken approaches, it could also just be that Peach Bomber is immune to projectiles - and we already sort of have a precedent for that in Raptor Boost (Admittedly, CF has some issues since he can't float over riff-raff stuff that Peach can, and this may too much like Captain Falcon, or it may just be way too good, I dunno, but it seems like it could be better, since you Peach Bomber through and then nair them after, as an actual approach, much in the way that Captain Falcon charges through and uppercuts them).

Just a thought though.

 

[NEWB]

Peach bomber is a pretty strong move that is actually pretty good. It's duration is long and it's great with tech chases. Gets em offstage so you can finish em off too.

 

[DIjoe]

I dont really like the idea of the peach bomber being the thing to beat out projectiles. because then it becomes like rob sideB, too good at approaching and dealing with projectiles all at the same time. I really do like the idea of the nair doing it though, because it does introduce more choice and depth into the character, giving her the ability to play matchups differently and adapt to different styles.

 

[PowerUp]

I chose nAir over Peach Bomber because fast/semi-invulnerable approaches are the worst and most overused mechanic in Minus. Such moves invariably become the primary if not sole approach for the characters that possess them, and it dumbs the game down. You should have to choose between offense and defense; attacking AND freely passing through your opponent's attack at the same time should not be a reliable option. There must be some kind of risk, otherwise you have no reason not to throw the same move all game.

 

[NEWB]

That makes sense.

Also, peach would be able to do Nair while holding a turnip. If she is floating, she will do her aerials and not throw a throwable item.

 

[Tybis]

IMO, Peach is fighting an uphill battle anyway... I see her as kinda tame, while Link is known to be pretty dangerous. Maybe that's amplified because of the matchup?

 

[Thor]

Peach isn't so tame if she's fighting someone really really bad like Pichu...

Does anyone know how the Wario Peach MU is in this game? Despite Wario being fat and having decent KO moves while Peach lacked them, that MU apparently favored Peach in vBrawl (I've seen a few say it's even, but never in Wario's favor, and most say +1 Peach), apparently because Peach's backside is too good [though I've never read an in-depth explanation of it]... is this still true in Minus?

 

[DIjoe]

not sure, dont have any good wario players in our group

 

[The Concept]

Peach needs buffs. I'm not competitive and even I know that. She can build damage, but SideB, fAir, and fSmash are the only kill moves. I don't play her well personally. The CPU isn't bad though....

 

[NEWB]

She does need need some kind of help. The only way to kill early with her is to chase people offstage with float. It's kinda hard to do that, especially since we haven't seen a good peach in action. I don't really want to change her just so we can play her though.