Brawl Minus 3.Q is all Qued up and ready to go!

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Newb, the thing with that is, it's unfair for everyone to be all rounders. The game would be balanced potentially, if we had a full roster of Pits but that wouldn't be fun. It would require huge reworkings of the characters to unspecialize them and remove their focuses.
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
Newb, the thing with that is, it's unfair for everyone to be all rounders. The game would be balanced potentially, if we had a full roster of Pits but that wouldn't be fun. It would require huge reworkings of the characters to unspecialize them and remove their focuses.
You blowing it out of proportion.
My idea was that a character could deviate from their playstyle in order to mix it up. Nobody called for everybody to be mario or something, we just don't want brawl fox and captain falcon who can do one and ply one playstyle. We need to add more options to characters to increase the skill ceiling (always a good thing, also not saying sines here aren't already high), and overall make them more fun.
 

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
Nope! Doesn't work that way. If you talk shit, you get called out.



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Kien...I don't think I even have to make the case that you're an average player here at best. By all means though, let's record a few sets just to set the record straight. By the way, beating me in the matchups I am contending would prove that you that you actually know what you are talking about, and are not a complete keyboard warrior.



Speaking of which!



Oh this oughtta be good.



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Are we talking about the same game, or are you just so lousy at what you do that I can't tell if you're being serious or not here. Do I have to bring up ROB, FALCO, ZELDA, AND FRIENDS yet again, who are all without an exploitable weakness, but you, PUTZ, are buffing your main instead of fixing these guys. Yes, that makes you self-serving. This is why I say you need to prove yourself in-game. You don't know what makes a "weakness" exploitable, or how things like movement options and range affect matchups. You think LINK needs better boxing. So, if you get rid of Link's supposed weakness (his boxing wasn't bad to begin with), what is his "carefully designed" weakness? Do I really have to make the case that you are totally clueless to anyone else here?



Maybe you should watch the Darx vs Glyph from the tournament. You know, the one where you got sent to the losers bracket in the second round, before eventually getting knocked out by Glyph (lol). Dark pretty much dominates his ROB for 2/3 matches, only losing due to a few very bad plays. It's really impressive. His smart variety of combos and strong finishers says more than any of your ridiculous text walls.

ROB isn't "unfightable" (and Lucario is now far from it). You can get your shots in with any character; he'll just pull ahead with a well place nair or laser gimp sooner or later. The reason ROB is unbalanced is the same reason Zelda is unbalanced, which you have demonstrated time and time again that you don't understand - CONTROL. ROB and Zelda completely control the pace of the match. If they want to camp, they will camp successfully. If they want to approach, they will approach with a safe attack. It's not just a matter of being hard to punish, they are also hard to approach, hard to gimp, hard to whatever. Where is the weakness? You tried to balance ROB by getting rid of his second gyro!

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So here's the deal, bronie.

1) I'm taking you up on your "dream build" offer, and I'm going to show you how someone who actually knows a damn thing about game development does balance so that you can learn. I'm busy right now, but keep an eye out for a thread in about two weeks.

2) I'm challenging you to a super set. This is your chance to back your words up and prove that you actually understand how the cast works. Rules:
  • 4 stock
  • All neutral and CP stages are available
  • Each set in the super set is best of 5
  • You may not change characters mid-set
  • There will be 1 set for each character slot. You may not play the same character twice in the super set.
All sets will be posted for the community's viewing pleasure.
Speaking of keyboard warriors...
 

PowerUp

Well-Known Member
Newb, the thing with that is, it's unfair for everyone to be all rounders. The game would be balanced potentially, if we had a full roster of Pits but that wouldn't be fun. It would require huge reworkings of the characters to unspecialize them and remove their focuses.

Clueless, as usual. He means to say that characters like vBrawl Marth (fAir fAir fAir) or minus Sonic are not fun or interesting to play against because they only have one tactic. Fun comes from variety. Variety comes from the balance of risk and rewa-

Oh wait...caught myself there. Almost tried to reason with Kien again.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Sonic has more than one tactic, and I'll show you that when you're FINALLY able to fight. Also, variety and balance aren't directly related... unless you're balancing the amount of options that a character has.
 

PowerUp

Well-Known Member
So, I have to prove the untrue, in that beating someone proves game balance. YES. Are we using 3.Q because I deleted 3.5 after losing the tourney? I didn't say I understand how the cast works. I state to understand the people who I code. Which is somehow hard for you to understand.

Yes, we can use whatever version you want if you accept.

1) Do you accept the challenge?

2) Name all the character who you think you understand. I'm tired of you throwing the rest of the backroom under the bus whenever its convenient.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Link, TL, Pit, Lucario, Sonic, Ike, Zelda. There are others I understand but I don't play. And I accepted the challenge before you issued it. Not like I have anything to lose anyway. At most, you'll be better than me. Not that I think you are. Anyway, 3.Q it is. Let me put some brstms on there and we can go right now unless you're busy.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
righty. Gonna cancel these brstms because they're taking too long.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
@PowerUp and @Kienamaru: I encourage you to fight my Zelda again online if you want more experience against her. She's tough to fight at first, but once you learn how to get past her defenses, she's not that bad at all. Kien's Link adapted quickly against Zelda and won in our BDOT4 matches -- and I think you would too, PowerUp, if you just play against her some more.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
I guess Power and I are even for now. Match wise, no idea how he feels about me as a person. :(

@Bent 00 Sure. I just hope the connection is better than the Bdot
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
PowerUp said:

Falco's air game has two highly situational aerials, one that is bad if your opponent can SDI, and his ground game is okayish (jab and utilt are good, ftilt is not good at all at low percents, dtilt depends, smashes are about average). It's his specials where he really ... shines!

[Ok that was terrible. But seriously, if you look at his entire moveset, only two things MAY stand out as broken, that's lasers and reflector. Lasers are why Falco is not mid-tier or even low tier, and I've already suggested a nerf to reflector I think would largely fix the problem. And I've discussed lasers before.]

Personally, I think Falco is a well-designed character who made the transition to Minus well. Most other well-designed characters... didn't (Diddy Kong may have, I think Pikachu did as well, Kirby made a good transition, Lucario got broken, Fox is ok too - other well-designed characters just fall flat in my opinion or weren't well-made in vBrawl from my perspective).

Also I've played you both a fair number of times. I think you're each about even.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Diddy kong is back in minus with a vengeance! Have you played against diddy kong Thor?

I said I think he may have made the transition well, along with Falco and Pikachu,, but that some characters, like Marth, didn't transition that cleanly [Marth can do cool things but he just... feels lackluster to me - I can do cool swordsplay, but I can do that with everyone - the elements were cool [or hot if you used sideways] but they removed those... also ICs didn't transition well because of their changes and MK transitioned ok but feels much more high-risk high-reward than much of the cast (Who feel moderate risk high reward usually, or low risk low/moderate reward like Falco lasers)].
 
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