Thoughts on the roster as of 3.Q

[Kien]

Those wolf lasers seem really useful now. My friend was using him yesterday and they keep you stunned for awhile. Especially if there are multiple coming at you.

 

[Bent 00]

Sonic is made for recovery and combos, if you expect any kind of spike to kill him at 0 well... You're spiking the wrong person.

My point was that Mario's Footstool is easily survivable at edge-level or below on FD, while Sonic's D-Air is impossible to survive at that height, even at 0% damage.

I bet that other characters can survive Mario's Footstool too; Sonic was just a direct example, since it's his move I'm calling "broken".

You're being pretty stubborn about not acknowledging an obviously overpowered move, Kien. Do you really think that it's fair for the fastestest character in the game to have a move that...

1.) is fast, safe, easy to use,
2.) a O.H.K.O. on all characters at edge-level or below on FD, even at 0% damage, and
3.) cancellable into a second Spike (Spring) and leads into a Footstool

I don't call out many moves as broken, but this one definitely is.

 

[Kien]

Oh I never said it was fair, I'm just saying that there is not one reason for you to be offstage at a low percent against Sonic.

 

[Thor]

Now do you see why I haven't been giving Sonic major ko buffs?

However, Mario's dair to footstool is just as bad, he can even pull you offstage to set it up. If you aren't so thirsty for kills you can live a lot longer against offstage monsters. That's like chasing Kirby vertically and being upset that he block smashed you.

You can SDI Mario dair. You can barely, if at all, SDI Sonic dair enough to avoid the footstool. There is a difference.

And I don't think he should KO off the bottom so well. I think his fsmash should be better but bthrow should be slightly worse, to reward his more risky option better and make his grabs a little less good, since he already has decent combo folowups, bu that's me.

Those wolf lasers seem really useful now. My friend was using him yesterday and they keep you stunned for awhile. Especially if there are multiple coming at you.

Wolf lasers are stupid. Knock DK offstage, go to opposite side, shoot massive wall of lasers - he practically can't get onstage [they hit him off the ledge and he runs into a laser wall - pretty sure he can't even ledge hop to get onstage]. Old lasers were more fair and more awesome and more generally useful.

Oh I never said it was fair, I'm just saying that there is not one reason for you to be offstage at a low percent against Sonic.

So now Sonic gets a free fsmash to dair zero-death because you shouldn't have been offstage. That's just silly.

 

[Bent 00]

I liked Wolf's fast lasers better, too. Three shots per use may have been a bit much, though.

What were the reasons Falco's and Wolf's lasers were changed, again?

 

[NEWB]

I actually like wolf lasers as slow. It's the fast ones that were relatively useless.

Sonics fsmash is hard to hit with. If you let him hit you with fsmash, you deserve to die for being outplayed. That move has too much startup and doesn't deal enough relative damage on its own anyway. This especially true since I'm certain you can di the fsmash to not let that happen.

That is unless his fsmash is a true combo finisher that is easily pulled off after something at lower cents. And if it can't be DIed to safety. Is this the case?

 

[Kien]

I'm just trying to think of what other characters can do while you're offstage. If you're at a low percent and you got fsmashed off the stage you were literally against the edge when you were smashed. Why? What happens if (insert character here) fsmashes you off the stage and follows up with aerials? Everyone who can spike, or stage spike, or gimp, are you in trouble then? Can they KO off of one guaranteed setup on a bad opponent who can't DI properly?

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

On edge, Marth's up-smash can stage spike. I took one of LB's stocks this way in BDOT.

 

[Thor]

I'm just trying to think of what other characters can do while you're offstage. If you're at a low percent and you got fsmashed off the stage you were literally against the edge when you were smashed. Why? What happens if (insert character here) fsmashes you off the stage and follows up with aerials? Everyone who can spike, or stage spike, or gimp, are you in trouble then? Can they KO off of one guaranteed setup on a bad opponent who can't DI properly?

Not with a single move. Even with Captain Falcon's predictable, gimpable recovery as Falco, I have to land multiple dairs to gimp him [sometimes 3].

And bthrow -> dair is a thing, and Sonic moves backward during his bthrow if I remember correctly. You could bthrow -> hit once -> dair for more or less auto-KOs. And if you stand on the edge and taunt, non-projectile characters like Falcon HAVE to approach you - you just have to grab armor them out of their attack, or jump and fair/bair them out, and boom, chance for a dair and a stock.

Ganondorf's dair is a less efficient meteor smash than Sonic dair. That's silly. Sonic is fast, but he shouldn't be KOing off the bottom with it that early.

And if you really don't want to adjust his dair, please try it, but also go ahead and add a jump/up+b cancel. Sonic being able to try to double dair, but with a meteor that doesn't zero-death, is much better than Sonic who will zero death you because you got hit with a single combo.

On edge, Marth's up-smash can stage spike. I took one of LB's stocks this way in BDOT.

Stage spike, not a meteor like Sonic dair. But I know this - Bash did it to me once while I was at 19% on PS1.

I actually like wolf lasers as slow. It's the fast ones that were relatively useless.
Sonics fsmash is hard to hit with. If you let him hit you with fsmash, you deserve to die for being outplayed. That move has too much startup and doesn't deal enough relative damage on its own anyway. This especially true since I'm certain you can di the fsmash to not let that happen.
That is unless his fsmash is a true combo finisher that is easily pulled off after something at lower cents. And if it can't be DIed to safety. Is this the case?

Fast ones controlled space well with a press, alleviated pressure, and did a nice amount of damage, but were not able to be used copiously.

How do you use Wolf's current lasers?

 

[Bashdemears]

I use his current lasers in a sonic boom type of fashion. Follow behind, punish response.

 

[Darxmarx]

I was going to suggest to tap B for slow lasers and hold B for fast, triple lasers, but then I realized the window for attack is kinda small. Would this still be able to work?

 

[NEWB]

Use slow lasers like you did with falco.

 

[knives]

Wolf's new lasers seem useless against a certain portion of the cast, and excessive against the rest. You're going to want to be very mobile and/or flexibly ranged against a good Wolf. May he have mercy on your DK if autocancels are implemented.