Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
Also Kongo Jungle is very counterpicky
Tha Spark monthlies
- Thread starter Baby_Sneak
- Start date
Baby_Sneak
Well-Known Member
Frigate Orpheon- if you die because of the transformation, that's your fault. The stage even gives the warming siren before it flips as well. Just jump and you'll be fine. About castle siege that stage Is counter pick in vbrawl and even though it Is w/o a main platform, you can just wait til the next transformation and stall on the ledge or close to it. Most chars wont be able to touch you there, and even if they could, you could just ban it and never play there.
About the m3 list, I like to think for myself and want to include as much stages as possible, I'm not a minimalizer when it comes to stages.
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
It doeant matter how many stages you want or dont. You're trying to call this an official tournament. So you shoulld use the most official rules we have. If you honestly feel that way about those stages then you might as well make every stage legal because "Its your fault for getting killed by a stage hazard you have no control over." You need to eliminate all distractions and random factors so that the players can focus on each other and not on avoiding Palkia. This has nothing to do with "being original." This is to remove as much luck as possible.
On a side note things like stalling for long times in tournaments is usually banned. Otherwise I can just pull one stock off of my opponent the drain the clock by quadruple-scrooging with jiggs. Infinites need to end at 300%. Though this is minus so 150% seems more reasonable. Your rules dont say anything about things like that.
On a side note things like stalling for long times in tournaments is usually banned. Otherwise I can just pull one stock off of my opponent the drain the clock by quadruple-scrooging with jiggs. Infinites need to end at 300%. Though this is minus so 150% seems more reasonable. Your rules dont say anything about things like that.
Last edited by a moderator:
NEWB
Well-Known Member
Bash, if you put me to sleep on the platform that pulls me to death, I'd be busting up. My words would be "very well played."
Also, hazards are waaay different then transformations. Hazards are random and usually are a variable, while simple stage transformations are always set and very easy to react to. If someone forces you into an unfavorable position, you are at fault because these stages are otherwise nuetral.
Whether or not vbrawl or even project m bans a stage does not directly effect minus either. The difference between minus and the rest of the smash world is that minus gifts each player with more power, but most importantly, more TOOLS. That is more range, more mobility, and better recovery, as well faster movements that allow both players to react more swiftly. This also opens the door to allow more stages to be CP in minus but not in other smash games. Even by minus standards, hazards and constant walls should probably be a no, the only partially accepted exception being lavaville, which is probably legal since it is so hazardous that anyone is able to use the stage to their advantage.
There is also the fact that there is nothing wrong with a larger list as long as you get more strikes. Some of us don't even care where we fight, so there is that to.
Edit: you make a great point about such things as stalling being unspecified. This is hopefully the first of many tourneys, so the rules will be more refined in the future. As far as other shifty things going on in a match, that's why we have a panel to review such cases.
Also, hazards are waaay different then transformations. Hazards are random and usually are a variable, while simple stage transformations are always set and very easy to react to. If someone forces you into an unfavorable position, you are at fault because these stages are otherwise nuetral.
Whether or not vbrawl or even project m bans a stage does not directly effect minus either. The difference between minus and the rest of the smash world is that minus gifts each player with more power, but most importantly, more TOOLS. That is more range, more mobility, and better recovery, as well faster movements that allow both players to react more swiftly. This also opens the door to allow more stages to be CP in minus but not in other smash games. Even by minus standards, hazards and constant walls should probably be a no, the only partially accepted exception being lavaville, which is probably legal since it is so hazardous that anyone is able to use the stage to their advantage.
There is also the fact that there is nothing wrong with a larger list as long as you get more strikes. Some of us don't even care where we fight, so there is that to.
Edit: you make a great point about such things as stalling being unspecified. This is hopefully the first of many tourneys, so the rules will be more refined in the future. As far as other shifty things going on in a match, that's why we have a panel to review such cases.
Baby_Sneak
Well-Known Member
i already understand this and there really is no such thing as official rules around here when it comes to stage list with a meta like this. in the early stages, brawl had cornia as a counter pick, now look at it. these things take time to solidify and become official. and about dying to stage hazards, melee players play on yoshi's story and they live sometimes by the help of randall, ssb64 players sometimes die to the blowing tree, brawl players die to others things as well, and they all try to minimize luck. if you tell me i should just make all stages legal because i want to include as much as possible, thats just plain ignorance. Also, im not trying to be original, its more like me not having blind faith in a list that isn't solidified in a meta, and is subject to change throughout the mod's lifespan.
i was lack of a better word than stalling, and i already dealt with this problem, check the stage list again.
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
The stagelist says nothing about infinites or stalling.
Baby_Sneak
Well-Known Member
MegaSaturn99 said:
please guys read more carefully, not only did i list stalling is banned, the stage hyrule 64 is banned as well.
I am annoyed that my name is spelled wrong.
Baby_Sneak
Well-Known Member
there, you big baby
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
you allow delfino, then ban h64..
Baby_Sneak
Well-Known Member
no, i didn't look again.
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
Delfino has everything that makes h64 ban worthy. sometimes all at once.
there, you big baby
PowerUp
Well-Known Member
Is there a thread that explains why so many of the stages are banned? I wouldn't mind a little more variety, especially the option to play on stages with hazards such as Cress Spear Pillar. I feel that being able to deal with them is as much of a skill as managing spacing. Also, in the spirit of high-level play, isn't it enough to exercise the honor system on "no stalling/hiding/infinites"?
NEWB
Well-Known Member
I'd personaly say yes to the latter, but the former is something else. That's more opinionated then you would think. I personaly don't have much of a problem with hazards, so I'm not the guy to talk to about banning them. I'm sure you could find a thread somewhere else explaining why these stages are banned as this is something that is debates over for all smash titles.
PowerUp
Well-Known Member
I know it's controversial, but I'm not proposing to change the entire competitive scene. I just think it's a nice opportunity to experiment a little since we're a very small group (9 at the time of writing). I'm sure the people who changed the stages in the mod would also like to see their work played.
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
You want to focus on the opponent not trying to move while the stage flips upside down and bombs and stuff.
Edit: Sneak, H64 is less ban worthy than delfino. No walk-offs or water. What is your thinking man?
Edit: Sneak, H64 is less ban worthy than delfino. No walk-offs or water. What is your thinking man?
NEWB
Well-Known Member
It's not that simple. Experimenting is good, but in terms of the competitive scene, we really need to start making one. You are right that we have wiggle room because we are still kicking this off, but we also want to look good at the same time. Minus isn't seen as being a competitive mod because of the Movesets themselves. It'd be best if the stages weren't up for debate at the same time. That's just me though.
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
^ you dont really need to experiment to know whats ban-worthy or not. You can look at SSB4 and know what stages are gone. For the same reason similar stages are banned in melee, brawl, P:M, and should be banned in minus.
This is speaking for competitive play
This is speaking for competitive play
NEWB
Well-Known Member
I would like to again point out that minus gives all characters more tools and more mobility. Dealing with stages in general are not as difficult so there stages that are normaly banned for minor reasons that minus can overlook. I'm talking about CP's though. It should be obvious which stages are or aren't nuetral, though I guess some CP's could now be considered nuetral.
PowerUp
Well-Known Member
I hate to be the guy to say this, but if you are motivated by the desire to see this mod becoming super popular and getting picked up for tournaments everywhere, you might as well forget about it. That ship sailed with P:M, and there's no way you're tearing the competitive crowd away from it. You've got something else going on here (something better IMO). You'll get more people in the long run by playing to the strengths of Brawl- rather than trying to be something else. Why bother modding stages in the first place if they aren't supposed to be played?