Request Thread for Brawl Minus 4.2!

[DatPsychologist]

For Mr. GnW, can we have the first t00t of his Uair have a reverse windbox instead? With the way it is now, its almost impossible to ever second the second t00t due to the first ones windbox. If it sucked the enemy into the second t00t (probably a small reverse windbox, for balancing reasons), his Uair would actually be usable.

 

[player_03]

If you let go of A fast enough, there won't be any windbox at all. If you're having trouble pulling this off, use the c-stick. (The c-stick is equivalent to pressing A for one frame.)

Also, if you land the first hitbox, you'll automatically land the second. Even with a windbox, you'll land the second. I don't know why you're so worried about landing only the second.

Also also, the windbox is useful for keeping your opponent away. For instance, if Falco is going for an offstage dair, you don't want to trade, you just want to keep him from reaching you.

 

[Switch/Suichi]

I like Eruption where it is. It really doesn't take that long to charge; I can usually charge it whenever I get a kill, and sometimes when I just send an opponent flying.

You know that you have to charge it all at once, right? If you cancel it, you don't keep any of the charge.

Yes, I know this. I might be new on the scene, but I've played Ike enough to know that. At least make so you can store it after canceling it though.

Ike needs some kind of helping hand, and Eruption is a good place to start.

 

[player_03]

While I won't complain about any buffs Ike receives, I don't think Eruption is what needs to be buffed. Sure you can't always charge it without a star KO, but the payoff is worth it. Also, charging it can force opponents to approach, and then you can mix up whether you shield, dodge, grab, or just hit them with Eruption.

If anything I'd want his uair to cancel into Aether and for him to be able to cancel Quick Draw into airdodge without losing speed. The uair buff will make it a bit easier to recover, and Quick Draw -> airdodge will help him approach through projectiles.

Spoiler: Slightly off-topic

If people are saying your Ike is too slow, you may not be using Quick Draw -> nair enough. If you fastfall after canceling into nair, you'll keep most of your speed when you land. Since nair has such little landing lag, you can then do anything, including shield, grab, or jump and start another Quick Draw. Mix up your fastfall timing to keep your opponent guessing, and add B-reversals to confuse them even further. (Just don't try to use B-reversals online. Even a small amount of lag can cause you to use Eruption offstage, killing you.)

I realize they may be talking about the speed of his moves, not how fast he can get from point A to point B. Quick Draw -> nair is still the answer in that case. The difference is that you want Quick Draw to hit them. Then keep tapping A to use nair and then jab. If they don't shield, you'll only get the combo at low percents, but it eats shields at any percent.

 

[Quarantine_Zone]

Would it be possible to give Falcon a Moonwalk? It would make his movement more ridiculous and allow for sweet combos.

 

[player_03]

I'm thinking that the benefits for everyone else probably outweigh the negatives for those three.

Maybe.

Ike certainly appreciates the buff.

we could make their sword moves reflect projectiles?

That seems like a little much, considering Toon Link's jab and that he can move with up-B.

Or give them Mirror Shields?

Heh, I suggested exactly that for MAX mode. But yeah, if reflectors are going to be this common, I don't see the harm in mirror shields. They still couldn't reflect while attacking, but at least they wouldn't have to worry so much about timing.

As for Samus... Maybe make her Dash Attack reflect projectiles too?

Seems fair enough to me. It'll give her some way to approach and avoid the risk of a reflected missile, while still being punishable. (And more predictable, since she only has one reflective approach option.)

My only concern is whether it matches any Metroid lore. Samus's dash attack resembles Speed Booster, which didn't reflect anything but did make her invincible. Invincibility on a dash attack would be way too much, but maybe it could have super armor? Or just enough heavy armor to get through a reflected Super Missile? That would be closer to the original game, while still solving the reflected projectile problem.

Or perhaps we could simply make the Power Shield / Reflect window more narrow.

I doubt it, based on how powershielding works. Your entire shield can powershield on the first frame it appears, which means any projectile in that space is reflected. The more empty air your shield covers, the easier it is to catch a projectile on frame 1.

Most characters have shields that are just big enough to cover them head to toe. For tall characters, this means the shield covers more distance to the left and right, making powershielding easier. And since the shields have to be circular, there's no way to reduce the powershield window without exposing their head and/or feet. (Jigglypuff's shield could be reduced, but it's more fun the way it is.)

Not unless we want to go with Project M's version, that is.

 

[The Big Cheese]

Or give them Mirror Shields?

This sounds like a great idea. Maybe even (possibly) an option to switch between shields with a taunt(?). There could be two different shields for different functions. One shield could reflect projectiles but nothing else, and the other one could stop weaker, close range moves.
On second thought, I'm not really sure if this is possible, but I think it'd be cool. I guess it wouldn't necessarily be better, but two different shields would make the character more interesting.

As for Samus, I don't really know enough about the character to know what would be a good idea. Dash attack with armor sounds promising though.

 

[fftank127]

I made these requests on discord and I was directed to here.

Would it be possible to implement jump canceled grabs? It's an easy tech to use that increases the speed of gameplay slightly as well as making them safer to use, increasing aggressive gameplay.

Would it also be possible to make most moves edge cancelable as well? I find that I often try to edge cancel moves instinctually but find that they don't, which I then get punished for. Simple ones like samus' screw attack out of shield. It's a good get off me move when I'm shield but the endlag of the move makes it less useful at lower percents. So if you could edge cancel the special fall animation, it would become a more reasonable option. Another example I find is captain falcon's aerial side special. I often find myself trying to recover high and I try to edge cancel the end lag of the move on a platform but I'm stuck in a laggy animation on the platform which is easily punishable. This is especially annoying when characters like wolf who can cancel the lag of their up special on a platform or edge.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

I made these requests on discord and I was directed to here.

Would it be possible to implement jump canceled grabs? It's an easy tech to use that increases the speed of gameplay slightly as well as making them safer to use, increasing aggressive gameplay.

Would it also be possible to make most moves edge cancelable as well? I find that I often try to edge cancel moves instinctually but find that they don't, which I then get punished for. Simple ones like samus' screw attack out of shield. It's a good get off me move when I'm shield but the endlag of the move makes it less useful at lower percents. So if you could edge cancel the special fall animation, it would become a more reasonable option. Another example I find is captain falcon's aerial side special. I often find myself trying to recover high and I try to edge cancel the end lag of the move on a platform but I'm stuck in a laggy animation on the platform which is easily punishable. This is especially annoying when characters like wolf who can cancel the lag of their up special on a platform or edge.

100% agree, and welcome to the fourums

 

[eaglgenes101]

Jump Cancelled grabs are a rather contrived tech to those not well versed in Melee mechanics. I'd rather have some other cancel, say the runstop animation to a standing grab.

I like edge-cancelling, though. Move it forward.

 

[MelonKeepR]

On the topic of grabs and suchlike, I'll just throw this suggestion out. With most characters (though I don't think all) in Zeus, it's possible to cancel running into a taunt, which is also cancelable. This effectively allows you to do instant turnarounds (run left>taunt>run right) and it makes it much easier to run into up-tilts (interestingly, though, Sonic can do this with side-taunt, but whenever I attempt to up-tilt I up-smash :/ ).

This could also be used to run>standing grab.

The thing I don't like about jump-cancel grabs being universal isn't the fact that you can run into standing grab (you could do that by crouching>grab). It's moreso that some characters with jump-cancelable moves, say, Sheik and her down tilt, would be able to grab out of whatever move. While not necessarily a problem by itself, it means that some characters get more mileage from the jump-cancel grab than others. (still think it'd be sick if Popo could jump-cancel grab, though).

 

[player_03]

I'd rather have some other cancel, say the runstop animation to a standing grab.

As MelonKeepR said, you can already run -> crouch -> standing grab.


If you want to stop moving while you grab (not sure why you would), you can always run -> shield -> standing grab.

it makes it much easier to run into up-tilts

This is already easy if you use the tilt stick. Just run -> crouch -> utilt!

 

[MelonKeepR]

This is already easy if you use the tilt stick. Just run -> crouch -> utilt!

smash stick pride

 

[Pin Clock]

Gonna respond to some requests from the old thread that were made since the final time that thread was updated. I'll be ignoring things that were addressed between BC and 4.1.

Tethers bugging out: The issue is how the game calculates how these moves work. We're doing our best to improve the other options of those involved, but this issue is sadly much easier said than fixed.
Royal Rampage to SideB, Fire Breath comes back (lose Slam) - Slam is way more useful than Fire Breath my man. Fire Breath was always...situational at best.
Cape - Perfect Shield can reflect and Warlock Punch is staying B, so declining this one.
Gandouken revert - We are not reverting Gandouken to the 4.0b variant. We will however improve the one that is there now.
Grabs should kill later - Nah their power is fine. Getting a grab as Ganon is earned.
fTilts angleable - fTilt already sends foes at optimal angles, and we don't have the animatinos, so we will have to decline.
Tap/Hold uTilt - we don't want to add more tap/holds into the game, and there are other means of starting combos now. Declined.
Improve windboxes - Windboxes are jank and we don't want to make them glaring on anyone's moreset, at least not more than they already are.
Cancellable Quick Draw into Specials - I do apologize for not mentioning it/letting it slip past the log. We can bring this back, but excluding Quick Draw due to the next reqeust
Make Aerial Quick Draw hitbox optional - The issue isn't really the hit but that Ike loses his momentum when he gets the hit. We're going to get rid of the momentum loss instead.
Sing shouldn't be counterable - As it is considered a hitbox, this is impossible.
Final Smash buffs - I see no problems with this
64 uTilt - Kirby's uTilt is already rather powerful in Minus, giving it 64 disjoint would be overkill
Get rid of abilities in the air - With Taunt to Footstool now existing, finding a good input for this is a little tricky. We want to do this, just need to know how.
/ Hitbox when they eat an explosive - I don't know why this ISN'T there already
/ Goomba Stomp SFX on Footstool - Frankly I'm surprised Elliot didn't do this. Good thing we're gonna.
Fully Charged Skull Bash Breaking Shields - Ignoring the shield altogether sounds more fitting for a move you'd never normally use of this magnitude.

I'll update the OP and respond to requests from this thread soon!

 

[player_03]

Make Aerial Quick Draw hitbox optional - The issue isn't really the hit but that Ike loses his momentum when he gets the hit. We're going to get rid of the momentum loss instead.

This removes some of Ike's shield pressure: Quick Draw -> nair -> land -> jab -> jab -> jab can almost break a full shield. On the other hand, he'll get a new shield pressure option: Quick Draw -> bair -> slide past. Less damage, but also less punishable.

Given that it'll also help him not be gimped, I approve.

Sing shouldn't be counterable - As it is considered a hitbox, this is impossible.

And if it was one of those hitboxes that ignores shields, it would be broken.

64 uTilt - Kirby's uTilt is already rather powerful in Minus, giving it 64 disjoint would be overkill

/me opens up the MAX mode thread in another tab...

Get rid of abilities in the air - With Taunt to Footstool now existing, finding a good input for this is a little tricky. We want to do this, just need to know how.

Hmm...

• Hold taunt for a quarter second? Then just tapping taunt will still do the footstool, but holding it will activate a taunt.
  
• Airdodge and then taunt? Being able to taunt out of airdodge would be kind of funny.
  
• Airdodge and then B? Being able to inhale out of airdodge (in addition to tossing any existing ability) would be somewhat useful.

 

[The Big Cheese]

Is it possible to make Group Records not crash the game? I don't really know why it does in the first place. (obviously something to do with the new characters but i don't know exactly what it is)

Also, could Yoshi's egg lay be a little bit harder to break out of? I find it hard to get follow-ups with that move most of the time. I think it's a hard enough move to land to earn a basically guaranteed string after it.

 

[Pin Clock]

Hey guys me again, this time I'm addressing the requests in "Pending", which is leftover from the BC thread as well. I'll get to this thread's requests soon, I'm just cleaning up shop.

Universal Movement Option/Crawling for everyone - We'd love to make everyone crawl and therefore Crawldash, but that requires changing the crouch animations and giving crawling animations and functions for every character that cannot already crawl, making this very hard to do. I'll put it in Under Consideration, which is where all the "Too hard to do but would be nice" ideas go.
Change Stats Screen content - Some of these are tied to in-game achievements (off of my head, the Tails Trophy is unlocked by one of these), so I'm going to have to decline this one. In addition I don't think "number of meteor cancels" is something the game actually tracks.
Set it to half circle to glide - There's accidental inputs, and then there's this BS. Yeah we can take care of that.
Attack Stick behave like Smash 4 - Of course we can do this!
Give his Special Get up Back - This can be done. We wanted to address his weakness of getting back on stage, but also took away a useful function in the process. Our bad.
Revert WizFoot to pre-nerf Power - Even now, WizFoot is very strong and a fantastic tech chase option
Make all copy abilities slightly better than originals - Yeah, that's the idea
Disable/Penalize "Extreme Cheese" - Double Extreme Speed is a large part of what makes Lucario Lucario, and we're not taking it out.
PSI Magnet requests - The thing is, Lucas PSI Magnet has different knockback properties, working as a kill move where as Ness' is a combo starter/extender, so we're gonna have to decline these
Slow down PK Freeze Travel Speed - It currently goes too far away for Lucas to really take advantage of, so I can see this as helpful. Approved.
Restore PK Thunder when it collides with something that isn't Lucas - Lucas can use the recovery help
Double Jump Punch be wall-cancellable - Perhaps only on the second jump punch for now.
Sliding Dash Attack Cancel - For now, we'll be leaving it as it is: An Advanced Technique.
Shield Cancellable Fire! - The reasoning for this is confusing and we don't see any benefits to giving him this function, so no.
Rebalance Pikmin - This is too vague a request so I'm gonna toss it into decline. Remember, requests should be specific.
Tap/Hold for Pikacopter bAir - Sounds like mindgames and like it may have application, so yeah approved
Fix him not being able to pick up Gyro sometimes - Bugfixes shouldn't be requests, but yeah this'll be fixed
Make nAir pause on-hit - We're gonna deny this one for the same reason we removed it on Ganon: Makes nAir a glutton for punishment.
First/Second hits of nAir act like the third - Honestly I can only see this being helpful. Approved.
Jump Cancel on Dash Attack - There's no reason for this other than the sake of buffing Snake where he doesn't need it. Denied.
Make C4 Not explode until released - That makes the move too easy to use and the opponent have no cue of when the C4 would actually go off, and he now has the PM Fake-out. Declined.
Snake's CQC should be stronger than weapons - Again declining this because it's too vague.
Speed up Snake fAir and bAir - Increase start-up speed on fAir slightly and slightly decrease endlag on bAir? okay sure I guess.
Fantasy's Snake dTilt request - Approved, his dTilt can be good again
Walking Box Taunt - While what we have now is fun, this makes a lot more sense. Approved.
"GOOD!" Taunt - I'll have to see it in action but I feel it's a shoe in solely because it isn't 3 box taunts.
Make Final Frustration more chaotic - It's too calm for its own good now, needs more FLIPS AND CHAOS
Training Room Stage - It's only appropriate we get one of these things in there!

EDIT: I also updated Pending to include requests (besides those others have answered in this very thread) from every post up until this one.

 

[unrelatedisme123]

I think the reason a jump cancelled grab would be nice is because so many things cancel into jump, so they would be able to grab from those moves, likefalcos side b, or shine on shield grab.

 

[memahalo]

Would like to gripe against the upcoming snake's d-tilt change mostly because I loved to use it to hit people into motion-sensor bombs or offstage (which is really good against characters with no exceptional recovery), but it would probably be for the best

 

[player_03]

Set it to half circle to glide - There's accidental inputs, and then there's this BS. Yeah we can take care of that.

Three lines in and I already liked the post.

Make all copy abilities slightly better than originals - Yeah, that's the idea

Nice!

Sliding Dash Attack Cancel - For now, we'll be leaving it as it is: An Advanced Technique.

Ok, I understand.

I think the reason a jump cancelled grab would be nice is because so many things cancel into jump, so they would be able to grab from those moves, likefalcos side b, or shine on shield grab.

So request grab cancels for those moves.

Also, could Yoshi's egg lay be a little bit harder to break out of? I find it hard to get follow-ups with that move most of the time. I think it's a hard enough move to land to earn a basically guaranteed string after it.

I think they have a few frames of invincibility when they escape, enough to get their shield up. (I should really test that using frame advance...)

They also get to act instantly once the egg breaks, but that isn't unique to Brawl-.

 

[The Big Cheese]

I think they have a few frames of invincibility when they escape, enough to get their shield up. (I should really test that using frame advance...)

I feel like this was more of the problem, all that the move can really do right now is a bit of damage. Your opponent just goes a little bit across the stage and goes right back at you.

 

[Pin Clock]

To the person who requested the Moonwalking code, it has now been moved to rejected for the following reason:
When put into the game, it broke dash dancing, and the only character who got anything out of it was Sonic, so we don't see a reason to make it work.

 

[Bent 00]

Did you ask any coders if they know why the Moonwalking code breaks Dash Dancing?

How exactly does it break Dash Dancing?

Moonwalking would have been fun. :/

 

[MelonKeepR]

If there's any way to get moonwalking functioning, I approve.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

Can Pikachu's up air be made to match melee?
I think it's OK right now, but it looks and feels a bit awkward and could be better. should be on the low priority list.