Request Thread for Brawl Minus 4.2!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pin Clock, Aug 23, 2017.

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  1. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

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    What if whenever Kirby swallowed an opponent, he would inherent not only their neutral B, but also all of their special moves.
    Kinda unfeasible, but you gotta admit it would be pretty cool. :nesmk:
     
  2. player_03

    player_03 P3

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    That would nerf Kirby's recovery in most cases, since he wouldn't be able to use Final Cutter -> jump -> Final Cutter -> repeat.

    Also, yes, it's beyond infeasible. Not only would it need 120+ brand new animations, they'd have to balance 40+ new movesets, and they'd need to write an absurd amount of code to make it possible in the first place.

    Sorry for being a downer, but there's just no way they'll animate a hundred moves for something that's only "pretty cool."
     
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  3. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

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    You are correct.

    I am incredibly lazy and will NOT do that.
     
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  4. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

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    Of course not! I don't expect you to do something like that. That would be too much work for one person to get done in a reasonable amount of time. I was simply speculating and thought it would be an interesting topic to bring up. I, for one, have little understanding of how importing moves/models from one character PSA to another works.
     
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  5. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

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    Thinking about how having all of the SUCC’D specials on Kirby would make a lot more MUs either close to even or even a bigger adventage since it would be a smaller version of them.
    The MU potential and combos with that would be insane, but so would the workload.
    I will agree, that sounds unbelievably fun though.
     
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  6. WonkeyDude98/Ganonmew

    WonkeyDude98/Ganonmew New Member

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    So The Comfort Zone said that 4.2 would be released in August or September.

    It is now a little into October.

    You guys still using this time to take suggestions or what? Lol
     
  7. player_03

    player_03 P3

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    Please refer to Hofstadter's law, and don't hassle the devs over someone's rough estimate.
     
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  8. WonkeyDude98/Ganonmew

    WonkeyDude98/Ganonmew New Member

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    I'm not asking to rush it, if that's how it came out as. Sorry lol, it was just kinda funny.
     
  9. player_03

    player_03 P3

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  10. WonkeyDude98/Ganonmew

    WonkeyDude98/Ganonmew New Member

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    uhhh...

    We're going to E....

    ...screw it.

    I guess the whole point was to make Waluigi a campy rushdown vertical fighter, but it'd be nice if he wasn't slow as molasses on the ground.
     
  11. player_03

    player_03 P3

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    I've mentioned this before, but wavebouncing with Quick Draw is pretty cool. Or at least, it should be.

    Pros:
    • It gives you more movement options, making you less predictable.
    • You can release Quick Draw at any time (after the startup) and cancel into anything, making it pretty safe.


    Cons:
    • If you get the timing wrong, you will wavebounce with Eruption and instantly die.


    Please, please let Ike cancel Eruption in midair. I don't care if he can only cancel it into an airdodge or even if there's a laggy animation without any invincibility. Anything is better than dying at 0% just because you pressed B one frame too early.

    (In other news, my new computer can record 60fps 1080p in real time! These GIFs are from three consecutive games I played to test OBS.)
     
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  12. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Post to say that I'm still alive and will probably go through some responses tomorrow.

    Also reason why 4.2 isn't out by now is a lot of internal reasons but no worries you guys know we release eventually and that I want this version out.
     
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  13. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    I Request we change the X Offset of the lowest HitBox on Falcon's Up-Smash from 6 to 10.
    It was 9.2 in vBrawl, so 10 would make it just a bit better than it was in vBrawl.
    Making it 6 was an over-Nerf that made it worse than it was in vBrawl.
    Fun fact: The X Offset was 12 (!) in MAX 1.01.
     
  14. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

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    Here's something I've noticed. I played both 4.1 Captain Falcon and Brawl Zeus 4.0 Captain Falcon. Each of their Up Smashes act drastically different from each other in terms of momentum. In Brawl Minus, after a forward throw or any type of move that has the opponent flying away from CF, I'll attempt to continue the combo with an Up Smash. Problem is that when I dash before Up Smash, CF has too much momentum and overshoots the opponent. In Zeus, dashing before performing an Up Smash carries NO momentum whatsoever. Wherever Falcon inputs the Up Smash is where the move will start up. While I'd prefer the Zeus Up Smash due to it's accuracy, I'd rather have a middle ground where CF slides just a little bit. It worked fine in vBrawl, so just do that instead.

    My point is I suggest changing the speed of CF's initial dash so that he doesn't cover 3 quarters of Battlefield as if he's using DACUS.

    I'd prefer to just have Bent 00 's Captain Falcon at this point. I never thought there would be something more convoluted than pressing up - down - up on the dpad to get a faster Falcon Punch, but mashing the B button for the length of Jigglypuff's rest PLUS having CF fire up and the announcer saying "You've got boost power" takes the cake as the most stupidly specific move to perform. For the record, I'm pretty proficient at Button mashers. My favorite game in Mario Party 4 was Domination and I always won it. I would co-main Luigi in Smash 4 if I even owned the game. But at the same time, it gets irritating when I'm mashing the B button as fast as I can, but I still get hard punished by my opponent because the move takes so long. Sometimes, I slip up because I'm debating with myself after taking a stock if I should be wasting my time charging this punch and slow my button presses as a result.
    In the end, I suggest making the charging process shorter as well as easier (hold the B button rather than mash it) or just make up-taunt the charge move like in Brawl Zeus.

    The reverse knee of justice is a bit more trouble than it's worth. I mean, I don't want it removed, but it's too easy for the move to mess up the Falcon player. I think, and I could be wrong, but I think the Smash Knee hitbox is bigger in 4.1. Despite that, it's so easy for CF to start running into shorthop into Knee and for this to happen:

    I dunno. It makes for some cool moments, but there are multiple times where I'm like "If that wasn't a CPU, they might've lived."


    The only minor thing left to mention is that if CF wins a match, the narrator will interrupt himself. The line "AAALLLLRRRIGHT! First place!" will play over the "The winner is: Captain Falcon." I get what you all were trying to do, but it should probably be addressed anyways.


    I hope this helps, I guess. Honestly, with everything that has been going on behind closed doors with the dev team, I don't know why I bother to give suggestions. Plus, someone's just gonna criticize even if there's no valid criticism to be made. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  15. player_03

    player_03 P3

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    I'm not too worried about this one. Lots of characters have voice lines that play while the announcer is saying their name.
     
  16. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    The issue is it's the announcer talking over himself.

    That's why this line is being taken out of 4.2.
     
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  17. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    AGentleStar: IIRC, the HitBox X Offset fix I suggested fixes sliding Up-Smash pretty well.
    It catches foes better and links to the second kick more consistently.
    With that tweak, Falcon shouldn't need any change to his initial Dash speed.
    Falcon does not want to give up any speed. :)

    I've decided I don't like reverse Knee, either. I prefer Knee to always launch forward.
    I do like B-Reversible Falcon Kick, though.

    AFAIK, mashing B to get Boost Power will no longer be a thing in 4.2 -- it will be "Hold B" instead -- but unfortunately, that awful 4.1 charge animation (and the unnecessary sped-up Up-Taunt at the end) will remain, and the charge will take longer to complete than it did in 4.0BC (which was the perfect length IMO).

    BPF all the way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  18. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

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    B-Reversible Falcon Kick and Wizard's Foot especially are features that NEED to exist. There were many times when I played Ganondorf in 4.0BC that I was trying to mix up my recovery from above the stage to the ledge. However, my Down Special only went in one direction and it doesn't help that I was facing away from the stage. I could Side B, but that will make me vulnerable momentarily. I totally agree with that sentiment.

    Me: *jumps off ramp and crashes*
    Announcer: R E T I R E ! . . . G A M E _ O V E R . . .
     
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  19. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

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    i love reverse knee :(
     
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  20. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Removing reverse knee is a bad idea for a huge variety of reasons. I could list them but I don't think I'll make much of an argument that way [it'll just devolve into text walls].

    As for the usmash issue, I still just want 64 usmash, but apparently that's too overpowered (???)

    Excited for more Pin Clock discussion of suggestions, but I understand there's a lot of them so I'll be patient with it... making sure the decisions are well-thought-out instead of making promises that must be rescinded is definitely the right thing to do.
     
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  21. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Go ahead and elaborate if you like. Reverse Knee has been nothing but a pain for me so far, though.

    When I try to land the Reverse Knee, it's awkward, and I usually get regular forward-launching Knee.
    I only seem to get Reverse Knee when I want Knee to launch forward toward a nearby blast zone.
    Reverse Knee effectively saves my opponent when regular Knee would have finished them off. :/
     
  22. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    It's possible they made the hitbox unintuitive, but I haven't really had this issue. In general for me, when I want the reverse knee, I'm definitely not 100% but probably at least 50/50 on it, and when I don't want reverse knee it's usually quite rare that I miss and reverse the knee.

    I might mess around with it more to see if I struggle with it myself, and they could always see about shrinking the reverse knee hitbox [rewarding people for higher precision, but also just making regular knee easier to hit], but I like it because you can edgeguard with it from ledge a little easier [if someone goes high or onstage], you can swag with it in team combos [I assure you, finishing a team combo with a reverse knee looks awesome... or just picture two Falcons passing someone between them with repeated reverse knees, I guess], and it provides a very powerful mixup on shields [if you RAR at someone shielding in a corner, bair is nice, cross up tomahawk grab is nice, but faking the cross up tomahawk with reverse knee can be a devastating option if they try to act... very high reward and seals stocks at low percents].

    Perhaps more generally, increasing options at the expense of requiring more precision in this case simply rewards more skillful play. So giving this option to players simply means they have more tools at their disposal if they can master it, and therefore makes Falcon better overall.

    From an "attracting people to the game" perspective, any Melee/PM Falcons who try to play will probably want to retain the reverse knee option because it's in both Melee and Project M. Not that such a consideration is necessarily one you or the dev team should consider, but I know multiple people who I've talked about the game with, and a few who've tried it, are a bit disappointed he could not reverse knee [and were more interested after hearing it came back].
     
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  23. Switch/Suichi

    Switch/Suichi New Member

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    Give Jigglypuff's Rest a bit more power. It needs more of a kick to be more of that "High Risk, High Reward" move that she's known for.Let it kill at 30% or 35% instead of fucking 50%.

    If we wanna remove her healing factor, or reduce it because of this, that would be fine, but this god awful rest is what kept me from maining Jiggs, that and her awful throws (which also need changes).

    Give me throws I can start a combo with, not the bullshit master read of the century and then you MIGHT start a combo throws she currently has. Specifically, a change to U-Throw would be nice.
     
  24. EpicNonBread

    EpicNonBread Malfunctioning Machinery Playtester Minus Backroom

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    Start an up air chain at around 15%, end it with a rest around 50%. There's your rest set up. Move doesn't need changes.

    Her potent up air chain into rest is exactly why she shouldn't have any throws that lead into the up chairs. It's a pretty easybake zero to death and letting it start from a grab in addition to the few set ups that it already has (I don't know them), I'd say she doesn't need a combo throw. At least not one that is followed up with something into her rest combo.
     
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  25. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

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    she can combo into up air from up throw at real low percents, and up throw causes a tech chase when under platforms to lead into the up air chains as well. she really doesnt need high percent throw combos.
    if anything they should slightly nerf it by making it kill off the sides. she'd get punished for killing with it sometimes, but i think it be cooler looking in combos no kappa
     
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