New Ideas For Characters

[justadood]

hm... ...well i hope you guys can make this guys work ^^

@Aether: do you want me to post lanky on the first page?

 

[justadood]

added some updates to the young link moveset and stuff.. all of it was written by Aether in another thread, i just copied and pasted it over ^^ ..Aether, if you're willing, in the future after we finish discussing ideas about individual characters and move ideas, can you send me moveset lists like that young link one so i can post it in the OP?.. it'd be really helpful if you can ...if not, it's no problem, but you seem to be pretty fast at writing those, so i'd really appreciate it ^^

EDIT: I forgot! on the note of baby mario bros over ice climbers, i DID have a pretty entertaining idea that could MAYBE invoke an awesome moveset:

Spoiler: :D ready?

BABY SITTER TOAD!!

hear me out, the idea here is so that each baby, mario, luigi, peach, rosalina, etc., could go over a separate skin and still not clash with costumes... this made me think, "what if baby mario was paired with someone else who wore red? and baby luigi with green, and so on?" ...then i thought of toad as a partner to a baby, he'd be much more protective and maybe his role would be preventing endlag to attacks that involve the baby kind of leaping into the fray... this also make this type of pair much more original, instead of being a clone of ice climbers... as far as moves and specials go, maybe they can be a little item/hammer based... not sure about what kinds of moves this could really spawn, as i'm also not sure what kind of moves a pair of two babies would have, but this way we're also adding toad (and maybe kamek and baby bowser?) without putting in hundreds of slots

 

[DubLTeamz]

Was playing Dark Interloper Link last night, lol. He doesn't seem to have good combo potential, (Though, that might just be me) and his attacks are relatively weak. His concept is cool, as well as the attacks, but he needs some work. (Like his AWFUL recovery) Removing the 'Put-Sword-Away' animation from most attacks would probably be good.

And DK64 was awesome, would love to see Lanky as a character!

 

[justadood]

DK64 was awesome, would love to see Lanky as a character!

Glad to hear!! i'm happy i'm finding there more fans to one of my favorite games as a kid hopefully if enough ideas come in, we can do this right... also, i had an idea recently:

if lanky is put in, then maybe cranky can be an alt skin (with the cane at the joint of lanky's arms), then if dixie is put in, tiny could be an alt, and if chunky was put in, funky could be an alt... this way all the kongs could be in (as a matter of fact, chunky and funky could probably both be alts to DK), but we wouldn't need to put in a whole plethora of characters ^^ this may help keep the list of characters small, but still diverse... with this idea, the kong family would take 4-5 slots ...also, let's not forget that we can still put in K'Rool as a viable character, maybe with battle Krush'a and/or K'Lumsy skins.. maybe even a K'Rool tower skin (to look like his island ship thing that attacks DK Isle in that game)

 

[Other Aether]

Sure, I can write other movesets. Only where I have good ideas, though.

EDIT: Since the other thread got locked, here's Adult Link's hypothetical moveset:

Spoiler

This took me a while because I tried to make him be about as different as possible from normal Link. He uses Master Sword and Mirror Shield, and is seen wearing the Golden Gauntlets. Whereas vBrawl Link could block things with his shield, Mirror Shield reflects things.

Neutral Special: Shoots an arrow. Automatically fires when it reaches full charge, flies extremely fast and far, but doesn't deal much knockback or damage. Randomly uses Fire (high damage), Light (extremely high hitlag) or Ice (very short freeze time) arrows.

Side Special: Swings the Megaton hammer forwards with great force. Inordinate (50?) amount of shield damage, but high start-up lag. If used mid-air it's Hover Boots, which let Link walk in the air for a few (3?) seconds with extremely low traction before falling. Can be jump-cancelled at any time.

Up Special: The magic bean I described for Young Link. Accidentally wrote that in the wrong moveset. Grounded up-b is a normal spin-attack, except with it's magic effects from OoT and much longer range.

Down Special: Crouches behind the mirror shield, which reflects projectiles and blocks attacks (like Pit's down-b). Reflected projectiles get 1.5x speed, knockback and damage.

Jab1: Swings his sword in a very small arc sideways.
Jab2: Swings his sword in a small arc up-to-down. Hits foes forwards and down to set up for Jab3.
Jab3: Leaps forwards in a miniature jump-attack.

fTilt: Swings his sword forwards in a broad left-right attack in front of him.

uTilt: Swings his sword in an overhead arc, like Link.

dTilt: Crouch stab. You know, knelts down, holds his shield out and jabs his sword along the ground.

fSmash: Stabs his sword straight forwards in a simple strike, like SSB64 Link's fSmash.

uSmash: Quickly thrusts his shield above his head. Has reflective properties. Functions much like Project: M Pit's up-b.

dSmash: Stabs his sword straight downwards in front of him in a motion similar to Ike's eruption. Enormous damage if only the tip area of the blade hits. Has a large shockwave that goes behind him, as well, and trips anyone it hits.

Dash Attack: Swings his sword in an upwards arc.

nAir: Does a 360 degree spin with his sword stretched out straight in front of him. High BKB, moderate KBG. Gives a bit of vertical momentum like Ike's uAir.

fAir: Swings his sword over his head. The later frames towards the end of the hitbox (like Donkey Kong's fAir) can Meteor Smash.

uAir: Sticks his sword straight up, like normal Link's uAir.

dAir: Sticks his sword straight down and bounces on victims, like Link's dAir. Except that it actually meteor smashes. High ending lag, and adds a tiny bit (-0.5 or so) of downward vertical momentum.

bAir: Stabs his sword backwards three times in quick succession: First straight backwards, then slightly downwards, then slightly upwards. First two hits have very low knockback, third hit has high knockback. Difficult to link (heh) but not impossible (about as easy as vBrawl Link's bAir).

Grab: Hookshot. More or less like normal Link's.

Pummel: Identical to normal Link's.

fThrow: Drop-kicks the foe. ~40 degree trajectory.

uThrow: Pretty much like normal Link's.

dThrow: Picks the foe up, holds them over his head, then hulk smashes them against the ground. Can be teched, but they will bounce otherwise.

bThrow: Does a back flip and throws the foe over his shoulder during it.

Final Smash: Cuckoo storm. Kind of like Latias and Latios, but with angry Cuckoos instead. Weird idea:

Spoiler

Phantom Ganondorf appears across the stage and shoots Link with an energy ball. Link is temporarily immobile and invincible, but he can turn around, and pressing A makes him swing his sword in a broad slash. If the energy ball hits Link, it dissipates and the Final Smash is ended. Link can hit the energy ball back at Ganondorf, however, and each time it's hit it grows bigger and stronger (and can power right through other players, dealing massive damage). After about 8 rebounds off Link, it will hit Ganondorf and the Final Smash will end.

sTaunt: Puts on the Iron Boots and stomp on the ground once.
uTaunt: Takes out the Lens of Truth and looks through it, then shakes his head and puts it away.
dTaunt: Stabs the Master Sword into the Pedestal of Time and transforms into Young Link. Cancellable by A attacks.

Victory1: Picks up an enormous bolder (several times his height), hefts it, and then throws it, causing it to smash on the ground. This is to show off the Gauntlets.
Victory2: Navi circles around as says "Hey! Listen!"
Victory3: Holds his hand up, and the triforce of courage shines brightly on it.
Lose/No Contest: Claps, like every other mentally sound fighter.

 

[justadood]

alright that'll be awesome! and i guess for the rest, if the ideas are coming from posts here, then i could copy and paste the ideas we agree on to the OP ^^

while i have you, have you checked out the last few posts about adult link getting the megaton hammer?.. and do you have any thoughts?

 

[Other Aether]

alright that'll be awesome! and i guess for the rest, if the ideas are coming from posts here, then i could copy and paste the ideas we agree on to the OP ^^

while i have you, have you checked out the last few posts about adult link getting the megaton hammer?.. and do you have any thoughts?

Yeah, Megaton Hammer is one of my favorite parts about him. I just posted my moveset for him, and Megaton Hammer is side-b... Adult Link has no Boomerang, after all.

 

[The Concept]

I got dark interloper. He has 3 jumps to make up for bad recovery. I was kicking some level minus cpu butt with him. I like him, but I still need practice.

 

[justadood]

i was thinking that hover boots could go on his hold jump action, alil like peach's float, but shorter duration and only working once in the air.. also, this would give you the ability to use it to slide along the ground if you hold down and jump, so you float along the ground, and this could help give potential for mixups also, maybe the megaton hammer could just go over a grab or two, or the tilt, so we have room for more attacks.. not saying i don't like your ideas, i really do, but i want as much of the moves in there as possible... the down B idea also sounds promising, but what if the shield reflecting thing was on down tilt instead, and works similar to wario's down tilt, where you can hold it out?.. that way we can still use down B for another move, like maybe the magic bean move.. but maybe that'd be better as a taun ...remember, in the game, young link plants them and they make platforms for adult link, so maybe a taunt for young link is planting them, and a taunt for adult link is spinning on one for a few seconds or something... also, we still have the deku seed, and the bombs, so with these ideas, the side b and down b are open for that..?

 

[Other Aether]

Well, I feel think Hover Boots would just look awkward on a float. I'd rather have them be Side-B in the air. About Magic Beans, they're his up-b. The thing about moving his specials to his tilts doesn't work so well. See, they're called 'specials' for a reason. They initiate special actions, like pulling out a megaton hammer. Forgot to mention that Young Link gets a decent chance of pulling a Deku Nut on his down-b. I already covered most of his OoT items, and I don't feel that the others are worth mention. Don't forget that in Adult Link's timeline, the Deku Tree is dead, so you don't really get Deku Nuts/Sticks. Navi was going to be his neutral-b, but I felt she was unnecessary. Could you please make a concise list of exactly what I'm missing that you want added so I can evaluate it?

 

[justadood]

-well putting hover boots as a side b just feels like in game, it won't be very practical xP a side B that slides you horizontally slowly would put you in a precarious position with little to no utility outside of maybe recovery, which is why i suggested it be a jump float instead, so the side B in air can at least be a megaton hammer swing/dive to the ground, or something... and i guess as long as the deku seed has a chance to come out when bombs are pulled, i won't keep bothering about it being a side B anymore..

-..although the mirror shield would be great on the down B, i still feel like his shield shouldn't be considered a "special", even if the shield itself is unique, because it's a shield, not an item, just an equipment, same as the hover boots... i can see it, but i would prefer the bombs and deku seed be here, even if it's already on twilight link... other ideas for this would be either din's fire, maybe pulling out the biggoron sword (probably not), or the bombchu or something... but if you are gonna go with the mirror shield, i think it'd be nice if the iron boots sound effect went off and hid shoes got metal or something, just to make it look like he's holding his ground...

EDIT: and one more note for the mirror shield!! remember:
in OoT, link's mirror shield doesn't simply reflect projectiles, like the name suggests.. rather, it gave link the ability to reflect light, but nothing else.. it's REAL use was ABSORBING magic, and then releasing it!! i completely forgot about this until now, but in the battle, he absorbed either fire or ice from the two witch sisters, and once he'd absorbed enough, he could release it onto the opposite sister of whichever element the shield absorbed from... so one idea here could be to make link able to absorb projectiles like game'n'watch, and then release some kind of magic energy ball or something, and unlike the oil panic, it'd be a real projectile that he can even absorb again if it gets thrown at him or reflected... this would be amazingly hectic and fun to see, too

 

[Other Aether]

-snip-

I think I see a way to make the Mirror Shield behave like that. I wished I could do that, I thought it was impossible, and then I remembered something. The attack would just be a generic light beam though, and I couldn't make the standing shield absorb stuff. You mis-understand on the hoverboots. You'd press side-b to initiate it, but then it would be kind of like a low friction float. I want this Link to be less projectile-focused, if you know what I mean. That's one of the top ways I can set him apart from normal Link.

EDIT: Since I don't want to double-post, I'm posting Doctor Mario's moveset in this post.

Spoiler

Neutral Special: Pill. Except now it's bouncier than ever, travels slower, and has infinite range! Not just that, but it's powered up to 9 damage! These pills are a special prescription to
cure the rare sort of insanity that causes foes to oppose the Doc.

Side Special: Just a sheet. Pretty much identical to Mario's cape.

Up Special: Mario Tornado. Kind of like his Melee down-b, except it gains a lot more height, and it can move really fast! Has great horizontal movement speed, and the amount of height it gains can be decreased by holding down on the control stick.

Down Special: Jumps a ways (about 2/5 the length of Final Destination, but in vertical distance) into the air, holds his sheet over his head and gliiiiiiides! If used in the air, he just initiates the glide.

Jabs: Pretty much just like Mario's.

fTilt: Swings his fist forwards with decent reach.

uTilt: Quick upwards headbutt, like Luigi's uTilt, but lower knockback.

dTilt: Sticks his foot out, like Mario's dTilt.

Dash Attack: Like his Melee dash attack except all-around faster, end-lag can be jump-cancelled, and it hits foes on a trajectory slightly behind him. One of the highest priority attacks in the game.

fSmash: If not angled, then like his Melee fSmash except stronger, and the electric gfx/sweetspot is further away from his hand (meaning longer range). If angled, then it's an electric kick kind of like his Jab3. The kick is weaker and faster.

uSmash: Uses his old uTilt animation (about the same speed it was in Melee) but far more powerful.

dSmash: Pretty much like his normal Melee dSmash, except much stronger.

nAir: Pretty much like his old Melee nAir, except stronger.

fAir: More or less same speed and hitboxes as his Melee fAir, but the famous "Doc Sweetspot" is massively buffed (BKB and KBG increased to the point where it kills around 70%, damage increased to 25%).

dAir: Slow stall-then-fall, all of it is jump-cancellable. Flips upside down and then dives downwards head-first, weakly meteor-smashing anyone he hits. Relatively high start-up.

bAir: Like his Melee bAir, but stronger.

Grab: Just a normal grab. Nothing special.

Pummel: Average.

fThrow: Like his Melee fThrow, except 2x FSM and increased knockback.

uThrow: Holds the opponent over his head, and then uses an animation similar to his new uSmash on them. High KBG.

dThrow: Throws the foe against the ground (untechable) great for combos.

bThrow: Like his Melee fThrow but with increased knockback.

sTaunt: Holds his sheet between him and the camera.

uTaunt: His Melee taunt.

dTaunt: Throws a pill into the air, tilts his head back, catches it in his mouth and eats it.

Results Screen: All just like Melee.

 

[The Concept]

Dr. Mario heals if he eats the pill...yes?
Would his play tactics differ from he Melee appearance?

 

[justadood]

hey guys, any thoughts on the DK crew post above, or the "baby sitter toad" idea?

 

[The Concept]

I haven't been able to sit down to look at the module files. I'll probably do that some tomorrow. I believe I have an extracted Brawl disc...

 

[Other Aether]

Dr. Mario heals if he eats the pill...yes?
Would his play tactics differ from he Melee appearance?

Yes to the first, yes to the second, but only insofar as he only has minor variations. (if you get that you win)
In other words, he'd play very similarly but with Brawl- tweaks (like his new up-b and down-b).

 

[The Concept]

Hm. Dr. Mario, in my opinion, would be a character to add after we've run out of ideas lol. Due to the fact that, 1. We can't get the Melee moveset out of our minds and 2. He'd be somewhat of a Mario clone, unless we build from the ground up. The moveset drafted so far is good, but... 3. Do we have enough info on Dr. Mario to create something from the ground up? Something to make Dr. Mario...Shine in the glory of his lab coat lol

 

[justadood]

i still don't really feel that dr mario needs to be his own slot xP ..just because he had one in melee doesn't give a very strong reason, at least to me... i still feel like paper mario would make more sense...

Spoiler: ...but, i did have an idea for if i ever got really really good at hacking characters so mario can have multiple "modes" instead of alts...

the three modes would be hammer mode, item (current mario) mode, and FLUDD mode... the different modes would change either all A attacks or all B attacks, and some of the other ones too:
-FLUDD would probably keep a lot of his tilt attacks and air attacks, but get all new B moves, like the hover, the rocket, and the jet... also, each new mode would get the ground pound to replace his down air...
-hammer mario would change all his standard A attacks and smash attacks (probably looking like something between SMBZ, but with ice climber/dedede styled smash attacks...) and the B attacks would probably borrow from paper mario/mario RPG's moves, like the hammer throw, the quake hammer, fire drive, etc. from paper mario TYD...

...anyway, these are just a few ideas, and i would have wanted this so FLUDD wouldn't need to go on mario's down B, and he could get the tornado back, with the down air changed to the ground pound, while still having the FLUDD in the moveset, maybe with the spray as a neutral B in "FLUDD mode"...

 

[The Concept]

I just checked out those EX module files. According to the memory viewer, there are 8 sections of memory. The original vBrawl Nintendo module files have only 6. Each characters internal memory values for all six sections of memory in their vBrawl fighter module files are unique, but are identical to the memory values of the first six sections of memory in their respective EX module file. Where things change is the two added sections in the EX modules: section7 and section8. From what I've seen, section7 is equal to all section7s of all the EX modules. Section 8 is where things get messy. They seemed identical at first, but after closer examination there are more differences between the section8s of different EX fighter modules. Because I don't fully know the code, pattern, or logic behind these EX modules, I am unable to create new EX modules for fighters that don't currently have one(the monkeys, toon link, and more) because the section8 is tailored to each character...somehow. I know what the first line of hex values of section8 does, but besides that I know nothing else. If anyone can crack the logic behind the section8 of the EXmodules, we will then be able to make our own modules.

EDIT: After closer examination of the section7 memory, they are not completely identical to each other. Though the hex values on the surface have the same values, they have redirected values which differ from each other. This means we not only need to understand section8, but also the redirection addresses in section7 of the EX modules.

 

[Sammi-husky]

Wait why are people trying to make exmodules? there are literally only 4 people in the world so far who are able to make them. Me, Phantom Wings himself (who i worked with to learn how), Pikazz, and Eternal Yoshi. the modules themselves are already extremely complicated and nobody is going to be able to make a new exmodule unless you understand ASM coding. Which is the raw commands that the processor itself executes. If you really want a rundown of the way things work i will outline it, but i assure you that unless your REALLY experienced with hacking in ASM your not going to understand it. You also need to understand how Brawl's modules themselves work. Nothing is fixed within them, things move around ALOT. hence .rel file. They are .relocatable. For relocatable game code. There are these things inside them called Relocation commands.

The exmodules sections are all exactly the same as vBrawl modules except section[7] and section[8]. There are only a few modules who NEED to have a different pattern inside the section[7] because certain characters ASM routine for loading their 4 data types for the character (slot, fighter, CSS slot, and cosmetic slot) expect a certain condition to hold true. Exmodules goals are to patch these functions inside section[1] within section[7] to work generically between slots, so that the charcter's loading routine doesn't expect that condition (loading in a specific slot) to hold true. Phantom wings did ALL the asm in this, and it's incredibly complicated. Nobody should ever mess with the section[7]. The hex translates into raw machine code that the wii's processor...well processes.

Section[8]'s main purpose is patching article accessor methods that are loaded from ANOTHER module file, the sora_melee.rel, and defining where the character load functions are. (sora_melee literally dictates EVERYTHING that makes brawl brawl. It holds the article data and article accessor method that the calling characters module accesses to produce the article in game. Lemme give you a rundown of this section, give me a little bit to take some screenshots.

Remember this is only going to tell you how the section[8] works. Not how to patch articles for a new one. Thats where the problem is in making new modules and why there are so few made. They are complex and even Phantom Wings takes his time on them because they cause lots and lots of headaches

The stuff i didn't highlight are the duplicates of things. The pic is a bit chaotic, however i really tried to fit all of this in 1 picture, so hopefully this will suffice.

This is still only a brief overview of exmodules. Actually finding the places in sora_melee to patch the articles requires ALOT more work that i didn't mention. There are also strange things that happen with characters as a result of being intertwined with each other. Such as TL, alot of his articles and code is intertwined with links, meaning that making an exmodule with them means seperating that code. Only PW knows how to do that at the moment as far as i know.

And yes, only 4 know how to make exmodules. Understanding modules as a whole, there are only 2 people and im not one of them. That would be Dantarion and Phantom Wings. There are also no exmodules for transforming chars. (zelda, shiek, samus, ZSS, bowser, wario) Nobody has tried those yet as they likely are going to be ALOT harder, i don't think even PW has tried yet.

There is also the fact that the values here aren't always right.
http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/Patching_Character_Modules

Many of them are not needed at all, and using them might cause huge problems. With which you then need to open dolphin and find the correct place that the game is crashing, place a breakpoint there, run the game, then follow the stack trace to find out exactly where the register that loads the characters ID obtained a corrupt value.

 

[The Concept]

Ah. Thank you for that. The reason I was looking into Ex modules is because my understanding of Brawl Ex states that each EX fighter needs an EX module. However, there aren't ex module templates for each character. I have some characters that were made to go over certain characters that don't currently have an EX module file, for example I need a toon link EX module and if this Lanky Kong comes to fruition, it will most likely be over Donkey. I figured they were difficult to make, but also figured that the reason there weren't any was simply due to time constraints, and that given enough time I might be able to do it. No, I do not know anything about ASM, but I will look into learning about it. What I don't have in skill currently, I have in determination and ability to learn.
So only four people know. Wow. Must make it more complicated than I thought. I'd love to learn this.

 

[The Concept]

Chaotic, indeed. Thank you very much, for now I have a starting point from which to learn.

 

[Sammi-husky]

Remember that there will be more info, roughly around the size of this one, before you will actually be able to attempt making a new module. When you fully understand the layout and that picture, let me know and i will be glad to post some more information mate.

EDIT: I cleaned up that pic a bit, lines are cleaner and i replaced the green with yellow

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Hero/Evil Cole Macgrath.
Didn't someone say we need more villans?
They could be potential clones of each other.
I can think of a moveset.

 

[justadood]

alright, put Cole Mcgrath's moveset in the OP sounds coolio Aether