Kien's Custom Minus Build

[NEWB]

I support 2.6 samus. Definitely the best in terms of air combos and missiles. 2.6 samus has some awesome Nair strings and homing missiles that hit straight up, which compliments her air game immensely. Her homing missiles are actually pretty broken in this version because you can use homing missiles to drag people up from below the stage and smack them with dair, so you would have to unbreak them for balance.

 

[The Concept]

I support 2.6 samus. Definitely the best in terms of air combos and missiles. 2.6 samus has some awesome Nair strings and homing missiles that hit straight up, which compliments her air game immensely. Her homing missiles are actually pretty broken in this version because you can use homing missiles to drag people up from below the stage and smack them with dair, so you would have to unbreak them for balance.

....what?
*adds 2.x.6 Samus to custom build.

 

[NEWB]

Finally someone gets it.

But seriously, most of her moveset is outdated. Her Nair is great and ice missiles are amazing at pressure. Zair had no freezes and fast missiles haven't been changed much and bomb jumping with morph balls is back but many things have been buffed since then. I really don't think those buffs compensate enough though. I'm convinced 2.6 is best.

 

[Kien]

2.X.6 Samus is the only one I enjoyed using. I might modify her a bit.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

2.X.6 Samus is the only one I enjoyed using. I might modify her a bit.

Yea, make her better.........…………....,.,.,.,,,.......................,..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.,,,...............................................

 

[Thor]

I fundamentally disagree with your sig @Baby_Sneak - if a game is fun because there is one character you find fun, but who wrecks everyone else, they have two choices - play a character they don't like to not get rekt every time, or get rekt every time and be unable to have fun playing against that character. I think they go hand-in-hand - if there is no balance, it's not fun, but simultaneously, why make a game that's balanced if it's not fun? I like Smash as a whole though, and for anyone who does so, fun will be a side effect of making a well-balanced game.

And you can always make stuff more fun after getting it balanced... but you might not be able to do it the other way around (multi-laser?), which means nerfs, which disappoints people who enjoyed old builds.

That's my thoughts anyway.

I should probably figure out a way to play 2.X.6 at some point and see what all the Samus hype is about.

 

[knives]

2.x.6 Samus is the best character in the history of Minus.

 

[Kien]

I fundamentally disagree with your sig @Baby_Sneak - if a game is fun because there is one character you find fun, but who wrecks everyone else, they have two choices - play a character they don't like to not get rekt every time, or get rekt every time and be unable to have fun playing against that character. I think they go hand-in-hand - if there is no balance, it's not fun, but simultaneously, why make a game that's balanced if it's not fun? I like Smash as a whole though, and for anyone who does so, fun will be a side effect of making a well-balanced game.

And you can always make stuff more fun after getting it balanced... but you might not be able to do it the other way around (multi-laser?), which means nerfs, which disappoints people who enjoyed old builds.

That's my thoughts anyway.

I should probably figure out a way to play 2.X.6 at some point and see what all the Samus hype is about.

I agree fully with this post. You could just take 2.X.6 Samus and put her in your favorite version. Maybe you'll have some suggestions after you try her out.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I fundamentally disagree with your sig @Baby_Sneak - if a game is fun because there is one character you find fun, but who wrecks everyone else, they have two choices - play a character they don't like to not get rekt every time, or get rekt every time and be unable to have fun playing against that character. I think they go hand-in-hand - if there is no balance, it's not fun, but simultaneously, why make a game that's balanced if it's not fun? I like Smash as a whole though, and for anyone who does so, fun will be a side effect of making a well-balanced game.

And you can always make stuff more fun after getting it balanced... but you might not be able to do it the other way around (multi-laser?), which means nerfs, which disappoints people who enjoyed old builds.

That's my thoughts anyway.

I should probably figure out a way to play 2.X.6 at some point and see what all the Samus hype is about.

If you had a choice to buy one of two games- one with characters exactly balanced, but not exactly unique from each other, and another unbalanced where 5 characters dominate the game, but other characters can compete, and everybody is extremely different from each other, which would you pick and play?

 

[Kien]

That depends on the characters. I know I wasn't the one being asked. But if that balanced game has enough fun characters I'll play it.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

That depends on the characters. I know I wasn't the one being asked. But if that balanced game has enough fun characters I'll play it.

Lol you and I are different human beings. I used to be pro- balance all the way til I learned that all the best fighting games were mostly unbalanced, and that mechanics and good design ruled good games. Now, Idc as long as everybody has something to offer.

 

[Thor]

I don't think a good game engine and mechanics necessarily means unbalanced games... if Melee had 26 viable characters it would still be a good game.

And until Smash 4 gets polarized, it's mostly open up top (no one has identified a "THIS CHARACTER IS CLEARLY AMAZING" like with Sheik (Melee) and MK and Snake in Brawl) so it's possible there will be better balance, but I think Smash 4 is already able to be stated to have good mechanics and design [my opinion].

But I mean, if we just broke ROB, Lucario, Dedede, Falco (either buff air speed a bit so that fair chains reliably or remove fair, replace with nair, and Melee nair, + better ftilt, reflector cancellable whenever, to make him truly stupid), and perhaps Ganondorf and Link, would you still be happy that you could play those 6 but not Charizard or Fox or Squirtle because you just get bodied by the top 6?

I know I would only because I have 4 of the 6 I like covered ( I enjoy Falco, and sort of enjoy Lucario and Link and Ganondorf, but if you swapped them for Wario, Yoshi, Zelda, and Roy, I wouldn't), and I think most people who don't main one of those 6 wouldn't like it either, being forced to drop who they like (ex: Charizard) for someone viable if they don't want to get stomped by players of the same skill level. That's why I tend to favor balance (at least in games that are mods/updated) over trying to make a few really crazy fun characters [since again, I think it's easier to make characters more fun than it is to try to make them balanced without becoming not-fun].

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I don't think a good game engine and mechanics necessarily means unbalanced games... if Melee had 26 viable characters it would still be a good game.

And until Smash 4 gets polarized, it's mostly open up top (no one has identified a "THIS CHARACTER IS CLEARLY AMAZING" like with Sheik (Melee) and MK and Snake in Brawl) so it's possible there will be better balance, but I think Smash 4 is already able to be stated to have good mechanics and design [my opinion].

But I mean, if we just broke ROB, Lucario, Dedede, Falco (either buff air speed a bit so that fair chains reliably or remove fair, replace with nair, and Melee nair, + better ftilt, reflector cancellable whenever, to make him truly stupid), and perhaps Ganondorf and Link, would you still be happy that you could play those 6 but not Charizard or Fox or Squirtle because you just get bodied by the top 6?

I know I would only because I have 4 of the 6 I like covered ( I enjoy Falco, and sort of enjoy Lucario and Link and Ganondorf, but if you swapped them for Wario, Yoshi, Zelda, and Roy, I wouldn't), and I think most people who don't main one of those 6 wouldn't like it either, being forced to drop who they like (ex: Charizard) for someone viable if they don't want to get stomped by players of the same skill level. That's why I tend to favor balance (at least in games that are mods/updated) over trying to make a few really crazy fun characters [since again, I think it's easier to make characters more fun than it is to try to make them balanced without becoming not-fun].

To answer your question, I would secondary Zard, but easily main ROB since he can play all playstyles. Balance is important, but not absolutely vital to a competitive game, and even more important than that is how you do it. Nerfing the top and buffing the bottom may better balance, it makes the entire gameplay weaken as a whole. Buffing the bottom to the top is my preferred personally.

 

[Thor]

To answer your question, I would secondary Zard, but easily main ROB since he can play all playstyles. Balance is important, but not absolutely vital to a competitive game, and even more important than that is how you do it. Nerfing the top and buffing the bottom may better balance, it makes the entire gameplay weaken as a whole. Buffing the bottom to the top is my preferred personally.

So reinstate the multilaser, 0% instant double team, and Sheik's full-power aerials?

Seems good to me!

 

[Baby_Sneak]

So reinstate the multilaser, 0% instant double team, and Sheik's full-power aerials?

Seems good to me!

It's not broken if majority can deal with it consistently. Just buff the bottom (Jiggs, pichu, ICs, And Zard), while giving everybody else something interesting to keep them fresh.

 

[Neville]

Your version of Peach is what minus Peach should be. Thank you.

 

[Kien]

It's not broken if majority can deal with it consistently. Just buff the bottom (Jiggs, pichu, ICs, And Zard), while giving everybody else something interesting to keep them fresh.

Charizard seen as a bottom tier? I'm gonna sing my song called Credibility Lost. No but really, we all know Zard is in the top 10.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Charizard seen as a bottom tier? I'm gonna sing my song called Credibility Lost. No but really, we all know Zard is in the top 10.

Quit playin, Zard is weak.
He's like melee yoshi without AMSA or vector man, has to exploit every little gimmick and situational move to win it, while
Other characters need to do far less.
EDIT: that being said,
Like literally, just buff the bottom and even the middle so everyone gets extremely strong, funner that way.

 

[Neville]

Quit playin, Zard is weak.
He's like melee yoshi without AMSA or vector man, has to exploit every little gimmick and situational move to win it, while
Other characters need to do far less.
EDIT: that being said,
Like literally, just buff the bottom and even the middle so everyone gets extremely strong, funner that way.

Uuuuhhh nair all the things?

 

[NEWB]

Yeah...... You aren't winning anyone over with that sneak. Exploiting gimmicks is what you do with every character. Those gimmicks make charizard really strong.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Yeah...... You aren't winning anyone over with that sneak. Exploiting gimmicks is what you do with every character. Those gimmicks make charizard really strong.

Uuuuhhh nair all the things?

Spamming can't be used, it's too predictable. Gimmicks are useless pretty mix when one knows the MU. You exploit gimmicks with every char, you don't rely on them. Gimmicks can't make up a character because they are heavily situational, and not consistent. Zard's fundamentals are Nair, Stealth rock. Down B, and vertical moves, and combos and kills. He don't have enough moves mix it up with.
Now, I admit, Zard isn't super weak, he has some strengths (KO power, great vertical hitting moves, semi stage control, survival ability, and tech chases), he's WAYYYY too weak to be called a minus char. He could for in balanced brawl easily, but here where you are supposed broken, Zard is truely Bad.
Heck, if Zard isn't going to buffed, only nerfed, forget him then. Buff everybody else I guess, ima stick with powerful chars as my main

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Spamming can't be used, it's too predictable. Gimmicks are useless pretty mix when one knows the MU. You exploit gimmicks with every char, you don't rely on them. Gimmicks can't make up a character because they are heavily situational, and not consistent.

Well, you could spam and use gimmicks constantly. I mean, look at Toon Link.

He could for in balanced brawl easily

Oh no, you did NOT just go there.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Well, you could spam and use gimmicks constantly. I mean, look at Toon Link.

Oh no, you did NOT just go there.

Against who? Because there ain't no way could you do that against a high lvl player.

 

[Thor]

Spamming can't be used, it's too predictable. Gimmicks are useless pretty mix when one knows the MU. You exploit gimmicks with every char, you don't rely on them. Gimmicks can't make up a character because they are heavily situational, and not consistent. Zard's fundamentals are Nair, Stealth rock. Down B, and vertical moves, and combos and kills. He don't have enough moves mix it up with.
Now, I admit, Zard isn't super weak, he has some strengths (KO power, great vertical hitting moves, semi stage control, survival ability, and tech chases), he's WAYYYY too weak to be called a minus char. He could for in balanced brawl easily, but here where you are supposed broken, Zard is truely Bad.
Heck, if Zard isn't going to buffed, only nerfed, forget him then. Buff everybody else I guess, ima stick with powerful chars as my main

...Nair isn't a gimmick it's just a really good move... Falco is gimmicky too, you only can safely approach with lasers, side+b (and really only to screw with their spacing), bair (still usually outranged), and reflector, his everything else is usually outranged, except these tools WORK to do everything they need to do. Falco doesn't NEED mixups because what he has is just so infuriating to deal with that they can't just exploit Falco because he has only 4 approaches (that don't suck).

Charizard's nair provides all the horizontal coverage he needs - it's not a gimmick it's just a ridiculously strong and useful move - though I still say just add actual KB to more of the hitboxes on fair and all his problems you claim he has would be fixed (and keep in mind, he already has the second longest non-tether grab range in the game - grab them, then throw them upwards and you can start using all his tools for juggling that are strong as they are).

Against who? Because there ain't no way could you do that against a high lvl player.

Gimmicks work against high level players. I can link other matches if you want...

 

[Baby_Sneak]

...Nair isn't a gimmick it's just a really good move... Falco is gimmicky too, you only can safely approach with lasers, side+b (and really only to screw with their spacing), bair (still usually outranged), and reflector, his everything else is usually outranged, except these tools WORK to do everything they need to do. Falco doesn't NEED mixups because what he has is just so infuriating to deal with that they can't just exploit Falco because he has only 4 approaches (that don't suck).

Charizard's nair provides all the horizontal coverage he needs - it's not a gimmick it's just a ridiculously strong and useful move - though I still say just add actual KB to more of the hitboxes on fair and all his problems you claim he has would be fixed (and keep in mind, he already has the second longest non-tether grab range in the game - grab them, then throw them upwards and you can start using all his tools for juggling that are strong as they are).




Gimmicks work against high level players. I can link other matches if you want...

I just said Nair is a fundamental move. Plus, I don't think you understand why it means (or my definition of it). A gimmick is a option that is situational, MU related, or something that can't work consisently. That said, Falco isn't gimmicky, he only needs his laser, Bair, Dair, and other moves to win matches, He doesn't rely on him.
Zard needs gimmicks to survive as his Nair isn't this unbeatable move you guys seem to make out.
You're using a mod that gets updates that changes the meta entirely, not to much has a extremely new meta that nobody knows entirely to support your claim. Try again.