Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

EpicNonBread

Malfunctioning Machinery
Minus Backroom
Playtester
B Reverse second laser - This wouldn't be much of a buff, but it would look super cool if Falco could B reverse each laser of his SHDL.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are proposing here. Could you explain it more in depth?

Swirling Fortress end-lag decreased slightly - With the new Bowser changes I am very excited for, decreasing his upb end-lag slightly by just a couple frames would make a big difference on the viability of the jab > upb tech. Against faster chars its still a free punish.

I don't mind the idea, but I'd personally lean more towards a buff to his active start up hitbox and an increase in its knockback. This would leave it as a powerful OOS, and still allow for it to be a safer option for a potential Jab 1>grounded Up B while also leaving it very punishable on wiff.
 

Ludacario

Resident of the blastzone
Playtester
I'm not sure I fully understand what you are proposing here. Could you explain it more in depth?

As Falco if you SHDL, you can only B-reverse the first laser. The second laser is unable to be reversed and you still end up facing the same way. It'd be interesting if he could SHDL and shoot a laser in each direction. Albeit not very useful, but cool to see.
 

AGentleStar

Video Editor
Hello team.
I'm a little busy burying the bodies so I'll make this quick. Bowser can Down Special (Bowser Bomb) infinitely if the player mashes the B button. Should this be removed? Is this broken? Is this harmless? Tell me your thoughts. :nesmk:

giphy.gif

Edit: Sorry it's a little zoomed out. It was the best shot I could get without having the camera shake uncontrollably.
 

EpicNonBread

Malfunctioning Machinery
Minus Backroom
Playtester
Bowser can Down Special (Bowser Bomb) infinitely if the player mashes the B button. Should this be removed? Is this broken? Is this harmless? Tell me your thoughts.

It's a small quirky thing he can do I suppose. I don't understand why it's being questioned. It's quite obviously harmless.
 

AGentleStar

Video Editor
It looks to be an oversight. I ask because people may find it annoying since he has a nearly constant hitbox below him. :nesmk:
 

EpicNonBread

Malfunctioning Machinery
Minus Backroom
Playtester
It's an ability (whether feature or an oversight, idk) he has to act out of the tiny "hop" he gets after landing on the ground, which as of recently was used to discover a new "tech" with him in which he can down b, use the tiny hop to nair, nair auto cancels, which follows up into whatever the Bowser wants. The hitbox isn't constant and the down b spam is incredibly punishable, making it no more harmless than the move in single use. I suppose the only concern this presents it if the hitbox can interrupt people recovering from directly below the ledge. Not sure if it does, unable to lab it atm, but that still wouldn't make it necessary to remove. If anything, it's an indirect buff.
 
This could not possibly have been an accident.

Here's how it works: when Bowser bounces into the air, he is still in the ending animation of Bowser Bomb. However, this animation finishes a bit after Bowser hits the peak of his bounce, and Bowser is left in midair, facing backwards.

Since the animation is over, Bowser can do anything. However, since Bowser is only a couple frames away from hitting the ground, most of his moves won't come out in time, so it feels like he can't do anything.

Bowser Bomb halts Bowser's downwards momentum, which means (as AGS discovered) you can use it even if you're only two frames away from hitting the ground. However, the move has no hitbox during its startup animation (nor during the bounce), so it's even more punishable than ENB said. Also, the hitbox is a lot smaller than the auto-snap radius, so it won't be able to catch the majority of recoveries. (It'll meteor them if they stay on the ledge long enough, though.)

You certainly can use an aerial and have it autocancel, though this is no faster than just landing normally. Remember, "autocancel" means that the move cancels into Bowser's normal four-frame landing animation, which is the same animation that would have played anyway (because Bowser is in his normal air animation just before touching down).

Probably the most useful thing you can do is midair jump. Bowser Bomb gives you your jump back, and using it allows you to skip the four-frame landing animation. Then you can either get out of there or use an aerial.
 

Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
That tantrum side effect should be a legit animation for something.
 

ThePwnzr

THE Frame Data Guy
Minus Backroom
Marth's utilt doesn't cover the entirety of his sword.
56664a8e86cf44c3935f81cb3c14a245.png
Changing the Z Offset on hitbox ID 3 (for both parts) to 5.5 instead of the 3.6 it currently is will fix this problem.
ca77588643044e58b0444b3801433c8a.png
It's a little minor, but potentially a bit of a deal. People trying to space for tipper will likely whiff all together when the sword goes through the model. Actually happened to me once! No one wants a Roy Zone for Marth.
 

AGentleStar

Video Editor
Marth's utilt doesn't cover the entirety of his sword.
56664a8e86cf44c3935f81cb3c14a245.png
Changing the Z Offset on hitbox ID 3 (for both parts) to 5.5 instead of the 3.6 it currently is will fix this problem.
ca77588643044e58b0444b3801433c8a.png
It's a little minor, but potentially a bit of a deal. People trying to space for tipper will likely whiff all together when the sword goes through the model. Actually happened to me once! No one wants a Roy Zone for Marth.

Lol! Seriously? That's hilarious, ThePwnzr . Good find. I love your hitbox stuff. I don't have the time anymore to experiment with the game, so keep up the good work. :):nesmk:
 

Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
A tip without a tip... Who'd have thought?

I also continue to question why certain attacks on certain chars need hitboxes the size of the moon on just part of the attack...
 

Mariosonicman1

Well-Known Member
Why are hitboxes moon sized and not just the sword itself? im not a programmer so i dont know the importance if having a giant circle for a hitbox, but wouldnt it make more sense to just have the hitbox be the sword only?
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Why are hitboxes moon sized and not just the sword itself? im not a programmer so i dont know the importance if having a giant circle for a hitbox, but wouldnt it make more sense to just have the hitbox be the sword only?
A standard mechanic is fighting games is to have hitboxes a little further away from where the attack actually is so it has more range, and also considers the motion the character would likely be moving in at the time in calculating where the hitbox should be. These are called "Disjointed hitboxes" and are relatively commonplace in all fighters.

If all hitboxes were exact to where the character's motions were, a lot of attacks would be notably worse than they actually are. The best example of this would be if Marth's uSmash didn't have those hitboxes on the side of him.
 

Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
There's a difference disjoint and "I can hit you without touching you" IMO. In this situation, Marth's utilt is a moving hitbox that covers somewhat in front of him, very much above him, and a little behind him IIRC, so an appropriate hitbox size for his ARM and HILT of the sword would be roughly the size of that second hitbox up. Even slightly larger than that duplicated twice to replace the other massive sizes wouldn't strictly neuter the move, it would just make it more tolerable, and less... Dumb, since it is an arcing attack that not only covers an area, but is still pretty hard to trade with, let alone beat.

Now, I'm strictly speaking from a balance perspective here, and that may not necessarily matter for Minus, so please take that with a grain of salt. I've seen a lot of hitboxes from Smash 4, and a majority of them (especially on the not-top-tiers) aren't that ridiculous, though there are still quite a few that just seem pointlessly good. coughclouduaircough
 

Jankoe

"ICs are good I swear guys"
Playtester
If you guys are going to nerf Icicles could you at least give ICs better grab range, fix Nana on the ledge or anything?
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Request List... Updated... Three pages' worth of Requests, oy... Still have to do AGentleStar's Wall of Requests, too.

Let me know if I missed anything or translated any Requests inaccurately.

SilverStarApple: Did you know Pin responded to two of your Requests, asking for more information from you?

:samus:Samus:

---
Buff Samus's Up-Air by giving it 1% more damage, please. [SilverStarApple]
Pin Clock: "Could you go into the reasonings as to why? This seems a little unnecessary."
---
Charge Shot should deal an extra 5% when fully charged. [SilverStarApple]
Pin Clock: "Could you go into the reasonings as to why? This seems a little unnecessary."
---
 

EpicNonBread

Malfunctioning Machinery
Minus Backroom
Playtester
That's a bugfix more than it is a nerf, just nerfed as a side effect

Does it really need to be removed though? I know what's been revealed in the changelog preview isn't all that you guys are changing so I'm hoping there's some kind of compensation for the nerf.
 

Young Boy Bread

Potential at its finest
So idk if this has been requested or not. I also dont even know if its possible to code into the game but I think it would be real neat o' burrito if Brawl Minus had its own custom opening cinematic. I know the start of the basic brawl cinematic was edited to show B- Logo and have altered characters and starting image so I think itd be great if you guys put together a little cinematic with that good ol minus razzle dazzle. Maybe animate the characters doing some minus esque things (Kirby and Olimar having a picnic and Dedede tripping and ruining it, Pikachu helping Pichu fit into his hawaiian shirt, Bowser showing up for book club with Ganon and Wario) and throw in some gameplay taken from Brawl Minus itself displaying its wacky new features and additions. If the new animations and cinematics I suggested cant be made and implemented also try just using other cinematic snippets from brawl subspace that are still funny and give a minus feel (ex. peach and sheik calmly having tea while aboard halberd, captain falcon making his groovy entrance with the pikman ghosts floating) I think this would be a great aesthetic and help distinguish minus and get people hype when they first turn on the game. Again, I don't know if this is possible but I really do hope you guys can figure some way to make a custom intro!
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
^ Too much work.

I do think they should shrink Waluigi in the opening character scroll, though. He towers over everyone else.

Oh, and fix that glitch that causes a random character in the lineup to be cloned and/or giant-sized occasionally.
 
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