Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

[Gold_TSG]

I don't see why heavies need to be sped up when their whole purpose is to bait and win as a basic tactic, not even taking into consideration the combos they gain access to in minus. Every heavy in the game wishes they had the tools Snake has. If you guys want a fast game, just make everyone as fast as Captain Falcon. Then we'll see what broken really is.

 

[Ludacario]

After this long debated topic of wavedashes, I think I have found a compromise... maybe.
Basically there would be two changes made:

1) RoA style wavedashing.
In RoA, wavedashing is done out of jumpsquat, and inputting directly left or right (with the shield/roll button as well), and shortened wds can be done through angles. This fits minus perfectly in my opinion, as it is minimally difficult, and is universal across the board, so unlike melee, every char has the same timing for wavedashes. THERE IS ONE CATCH. Wavedashing can only be done in jumpsquat. This allows for brawl airdodges to be used with directional influence. Before you ask "But luda what about wavelanding?" hold on hold I'm getting there...

2) Brawl airdodges autocancel (Gonna dub this auto-landing unless thats already used?)
This is as close as its gonna get for wavelanding. Autocancelled airdodges allow for a better defensive landing option, and is another mixup for shielding opponents. Auto-land > grab can be used instead of attack attack attack. Lowers the "spammy" nature of minus.

Let me know what you guys think. Changes? Terrible idea? Love it?

 

[Jankoe]

After this long debated topic of wavedashes, I think I have found a compromise... maybe.
Basically there would be two changes made:

1) RoA style wavedashing.
In RoA, wavedashing is done out of jumpsquat, and inputting directly left or right, and shortened wds can be done through angles. This fits minus perfectly in my opinion, as it is minimally difficult, and is universal across the board, so unlike melee, every char has the same timing for wavedashes. THERE IS ONE CATCH. Wavedashing can only be done in jumpsquat. This allows for brawl airdodges to be used with directional influence. Before you ask "But luda what about wavelanding?" hold on hold I'm getting there...

2) Brawl airdodges autocancel (Gonna dub this auto-landing unless thats already used?)
This is as close as its gonna get for wavelanding. Autocancelled airdodges allow for a better defensive landing option, and is another mixup for shielding opponents. Auto-land > grab can be used instead of attack attack attack. Lowers the "spammy" nature of minus.

Let me know what you guys think. Changes? Terrible idea? Love it?

I Like the idea TBH

 

[MelonKeepR]

~snip~

Interesting concept, I think we should stick with the wavedashes we've got now. Not every character needs a wavedash, and I'd much rather see new, fun movement options given to other characters rather than being lazy and giving everyone a wavedash.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

After this long debated topic of wavedashes, I think I have found a compromise... maybe.
Basically there would be two changes made:

1) RoA style wavedashing.
In RoA, wavedashing is done out of jumpsquat, and inputting directly left or right (with the shield/roll button as well), and shortened wds can be done through angles. This fits minus perfectly in my opinion, as it is minimally difficult, and is universal across the board, so unlike melee, every char has the same timing for wavedashes. THERE IS ONE CATCH. Wavedashing can only be done in jumpsquat. This allows for brawl airdodges to be used with directional influence. Before you ask "But luda what about wavelanding?" hold on hold I'm getting there...

2) Brawl airdodges autocancel (Gonna dub this auto-landing unless thats already used?)
This is as close as its gonna get for wavelanding. Autocancelled airdodges allow for a better defensive landing option, and is another mixup for shielding opponents. Auto-land > grab can be used instead of attack attack attack. Lowers the "spammy" nature of minus.

Let me know what you guys think. Changes? Terrible idea? Love it?

I think It's a pretty good idea, but I doubt the Dev Team will be open to this since they don't like changing the game...

Interesting concept, I think we should stick with the wavedashes we've got now. Not every character needs a wavedash, and I'd much rather see new, fun movement options given to other characters rather than being lazy and giving everyone a wavedash.

How is incorporating a general mechanic lazy... Every game has general mechanics. Just because Minus uses ONE mechanic from Melee/PM doesn't mean the whole game is changing.

 

[MelonKeepR]

How is incorporating a general mechanic lazy... Every game has general mechanics. Just because Minus uses ONE mechanic from Melee/PM doesn't mean the whole game is changing.

First off, the way the whole game would be played would be a whole lot different if everyone could wavedash.
And second off, maybe "Lazy" was a bad word to use, but I just feel that there are better ways to make characters more mobile without them all having the same option.
Lastly, it's pretty unfair to give wavedashing to everyone, because some would benefit more from others than the change. So while some characters would get a tremendous buff, other characters would just be left without. Giving character-specific movement options negates this problem entirely, though.

 

[EpicNonBread]

Slapping a few suggestions on here for feedback/discussion. (With more to come eventually)

Donkey Kong-

• Up B- In Melee and PM Grounded Up B was a good OOS "get off me" option with the start up hit dealing significant knockback, but not strong enough knockback to be a kill move. Smash 4 did something different with it in that there is no start up hitbox to swat characters away, but rather they are hit with the entire move and then the final hitbox pushes back with moderate knockback. The current Grounded Up B of Minus lacks the high knockback start up hitbox as well, but the rest of the move can be SDI'd out of sheilded and then punished, making the OOS "get off me" option no longer safe and inconsistent. The move's hitboxes should pull in the opponent much more to guarantee the final hit.

ROB-

• Down B- There are very rare instances where ROB is unable to pick up gyro, by either regularly picking it up or by dair dashing onto it. It's most notable during the second portion of the spinning duration (unfortunately no gif of it at the moment). This was an issue in vBrawl but doesn't seem to be apparent in Smash 4 or PM. My guess is that if possible, the size for how close you need to be in proximity to the grounded gyro should be increased to allow for an easier pick up.

Yoshi

• Why has Yoshi not been given the ability to jump out of shield yet? This was a huge buff PM gave him that gives him much better options in neutral.

 

[MelonKeepR]

Donkey Kong-

• Up B- In Melee and PM Grounded Up B was a good OOS "get off me" option with the start up hit dealing significant knockback, but not strong enough knockback to be a kill move.

I'd like to add that in Smash 64, DK's up-b can be used as a combo-breaker. That'd be pretty cool to see in Minus.

 

[Gold_TSG]

DK's up B does like 60% or so damage if a majority of the hits connect. There is no reason it shouldn't be SDIable. It's meant to catch landings and combo out of dthrow at low %s. You don't need up B as an OoS option when grabs tend to lead into massive damage combos or death. Risk vs Reward. Free up B damage OoS isn't all that fair, and this is coming from a former minus DK main.
And smash 4 DK does have a hitbox on startup that knocks people away, just like the final hit, but it exists on the furthest part of his fist when he starts spinning. This makes it incredibly punishable at lower %s.

 

[EpicNonBread]

I'd like to add that in Smash 64, DK's up-b can be used as a combo-breaker. That'd be pretty cool to see in Minus.

I do enjoy how exaggerated the option is in PM, but I'd rather have Minus's stick with the current knockback and have it guarantee that it leads into its final hit. The last hit knocks back a perfectly small amount that puts the opponent in the situation for allowing DK to tech chase/follow up.

It's meant to catch landings and combo out of dthrow at low %s.

Why in the world would you attempt to catch landings with a long start up, high commitment, not fully guaranteed punishing move like Grounded Up B? I guess rip sh upair, uptilt, and sh nair? And again, why in the world would you follow up with Grounded Up B out of Dthrow when you have dthrow > low percent dtilt > trip > regrab/ftilt/fsmash or dthrow > tech chase/react > other clearly better follow up?

You don't need up B as an OoS option when grabs tend to lead into massive damage combos or death. Risk vs Reward. Free up B damage OoS isn't all that fair, and this is coming from a former minus DK main.

DK's up B does like 60% or so damage if a majority of the hits connect.

You must not have a lot of experience with someone safely hammering on your shield in a situation where you can't punish with how massive the shield stun in this game is. Sure DK has an incredibly solid combo game of his own, but that doesn't mean he has the defensive options for when his weakness of being combo food gets exploited. I'd expect a former DK main to actually know what he's talking about when it comes to DK. 36% of "free" damage if you get every single hit.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I find it amusing how you seem to enjoy talking down to people, and like you know the character better than someone who has used him to the best of his capabilities where no one else has. You can talk about this and that, but I'd prefer talking about actual experience. First, up B has armor on startup, so it's not unsafe to use on anyone unaware. Second, regrabs aside, it doesn't take much for DK to get a lot of his options out if you play smart. If you have the space for a regrab with dtilt, go ahead, but his options always lead into his superior aerial game. Dthrow > dash attack > utilts/nairs > uairs/bairs or finish with giant punch. That will often be a smart DK's choice of combo that don't involve regrabbing, since it takes very little time for him to get anyone into kill %s. As for the damage on up b, whether I forgot the total damage or not is irrelevant, because the utility it offers can't be overlooked. Maybe you failed to notice that the final hit leaves them in enough stun to allow further follow ups? Or force them to shield and risk getting grabbed? And don't even get me started on the pressure that his barrel game offers. It controls how people approach him, and how they recover, and also force people to think about which they would rather focus on: the barrel or DK, much like gordo in smash 4. "But they can hit the barrel back at DK!" Yeah, and he can hit it right back at them. Or break them. Or avoid them. They also provide him momentum boosts when used in the air, so that can further throw off your opponent, as they aren't even safe from DK offstage, since he can just back throw a barrel and greet them with a bair. There's countless options with barrel shenanigans. DK has an enormous amount of potential that I haven't seen anyone else tap into yet, and quite frankly, I hope to see someone experiment more with him soon.

So please save yourself the trouble of talking out your ass about a character you didn't dedicate time and effort into learning, when you clearly barely scratched the surface of his effectiveness in competitive play. I have faced and beaten all the top level players in the community, as well as all the top tier characters, BEFORE they were nerfed, BEFORE the hitstun and gravity were lowered, so I think it's not I who doesn't know what it's like to be on the defensive against pressure. If you can't deal with the pressure and be unique with how you play a character, find someone else to play. Smash bros is more than just about using only the most optimal options, it's about styling on them as well, and showing your superior knowledge of the character and the situation. Do yourself a favor and ask the people who have experience against my DK, and you'll learn something.

EDIT 2: found me a golden oldie because why not. (Found the full match)
Goddamn I feel old... And this was before I started playing more hardcore with the barrels and offense. Memories...

EDIT 3: I really wanna see someone pull out all the stops with DK, since my coming back to minus is pretty slim. Someone needs to pick up the torch and continue the rampage of DK. He's such a fun character with so many options...

 

[EpicNonBread]

I find it amusing how you seem to enjoy talking down to people, and like you know the character better than someone who has used him to the best of his capabilities where no one else has. You can talk about this and that, but I'd prefer talking about actual experience.

Wooooah my guy. Okay, we're doing character discussion here. Alright? We're not here to try and flaunt how good we like to think we are. That being said, I think your initial response seemed uneducated. You can't just throw out a "yeah the move does like 60%" and expect me to take you seriously, right? So! Just like your first response, I'm going to debunk the rest of your points, and you can continue reading.

First, up B has armor on startup, so it's not unsafe to use on anyone unaware.

Hold up people we GOT ARMOR. Did you just skim by the entire point of my suggestion? What does armor on a move mean if you can immediately SDI out before the knockback dealing hit lands, shield it, and then get your free punish?

Second, regrabs aside, it doesn't take much for DK to get a lot of his options out if you play smart. If you have the space for a regrab with dtilt, go ahead, but his options always lead into his superior aerial game. Dthrow > dash attack > utilts/nairs > uairs/bairs or finish with giant punch. That will often be a smart DK's choice of combo that don't involve regrabbing, since it takes very little time for him to get anyone into kill %s.

I'm not actually sure why you just read me the DK 101 book, but alright. I mean you're not wrong, that's all bread and butter stuff, but why are you bringing it up here? Yes I play the character. Yes I know how to combo and handle neutral with him.

because the utility it offers can't be overlooked.

Actually it can. Again to repeat myself, the move is inconsistent and unreliable as it stands with the ability to SDI out of it before the final hit, shield the final hit, and then punish accordingly. Being that DK is a fatty combo food character, the punish from the shielding opponent will probably be large.

Maybe you failed to notice that the final hit leaves them in enough stun to allow further follow ups?

Lol. Maybe you failed to notice I already mentioned that in my response to MelonKeepR? I dunno. I figured you'd at last read all of my post first if you're willing to start this. Trust me, I promise I'm actually not totally brain dead, despite what it may seem.

Or force them to shield and risk getting grabbed?

Are you suggesting that DK can use Grounded Up B on shield and then follow up with a grab? Because I hope you know that is not guaranteed at all and never happens unless you're playing with god awful opponents.

It controls how people approach him, and how they recover, and also force people to think about which they would rather focus on: the barrel or DK

This is another situation of efficient gameplay and I always see it happen playing as ROB and watching my opponent get nicked two or three times trying to pick up my gyro instead of edge guarding me. The answer in almost every single situation is to give barrel respect and focus on DK. There is no reason to interact with the barrel, and for a majority of the cast a projectile is an easy enough way to take control of it without having to commit to anything major and still leave yourself ready for DK's next option. Barrels on your opponent's recovery however is excellent as you've already mentioned.

DK has an enormous amount of potential that I haven't seen anyone else tap into yet, and quite frankly, I hope to see someone experiment more with him soon.

I'll get this one out of the way quickly. I have absolutely no idea who you are. Never heard of you. Never seen gameplay of you in tournament. Never seen you on netplay. You must not be familiar with the current state of the scene and the newer players that have entered it, but people have been tapping into characters left and right. I'm not about to go on some post about how I've tapped into the god given potential of the monkey, but yes I've done my fair share of labbing the character.

So please save yourself the trouble of talking out your ass about a character you didn't dedicate time and effort into learning, when you clearly barely scratched the surface of his effectiveness in competitive play.

Unless you're fully prepared to tell me that you've done extensive research on who I am as a player and have done even more extensive research on how I play DK, your accidental shitpost here doesn't mean anything.

I have faced and beaten all the top level players in the community, as well as all the top tier characters, BEFORE they were nerfed, BEFORE the hitstun and gravity were lowered, so I think it's not I who doesn't know what it's like to be on the defensive against pressure.

Gee wiz. I didn't know I was dealing with a legend. Listen, you seem like a pretty skilled player. You're not anything special. You beat what, 10 or 20 guys at a Smash mod that has very drastically reduced technical requirements to be good in? You're not some high worthy of praise god at this game. You're just a regular player. You're not different from me, or anyone else who has their own way of playing Minus. I'm sure you've been playing Smash titles for some time, and that you probably have you own history and achievements as a player. But you seriously need to get with it. Your arguments aren't any more valid than mine just because you're a Minus veteran who's been around long enough to say you did X, Y, and Z before I've had the chance to.

Smash bros is more than just about using only the most optimal options, it's about styling on them as well, and showing your superior knowledge of the character and the situation.

I'm not going to question how much Smash experience you have, because I couldn't begin to tell you how much I don't care. But don't lecture me on what playing this game is all about while you wag your cane at me and tell me to get off your lawn. Smash isn't about "styling on people", "playing optimally" or whatever the fuck else. Playing Smash is about playing however the hell YOU as a player want to play. Yeah there's the bread and butter of any character and more efficient strategies that when it comes down to it, there's really no reason not to utilize. But the preference of one's gameplay method is strictly on how that person wants to play. Not on how you think they should be playing.

Do yourself a favor and ask the people who have experience against my DK, and you'll learn something.

I'll save myself the time and judge you off of that IIIIINCREDIBLE about of skill that you displayed in that video clip of yours.

You're an okay dong.

 

[Neville]

I have faced and beaten all the top level players in the community, as well as all the top tier characters, BEFORE they were nerfed, BEFORE the hitstun and gravity were lowered

On wifi

 

[EpicNonBread]

On wifi

Strange of me to immediately defend the person that I'm having so much fun roasting alive, but I wouldn't discredit someone's victories just based on the platform or connection that they played on. I'm not personally familiar with when Gold competed and how the circumstances of playing over wifi changes the gameplay differently from how netplay changes it.

 

[Neville]

Strange of me to immediately defend the person that I'm having so much fun roasting alive, but I wouldn't discredit someone's victories just based on the platform or connection that they played on. I'm not personally familiar with when Gold competed and how the circumstances of playing over wifi changes the gameplay differently from how netplay changes it.

Imagine playing 20 buffer all the time. That's why by Netplay standards Gold and Ellipsis are playing like they've got potatoes tied to all their fingers.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Strange of me to immediately defend the person that I'm having so much fun roasting alive, but I wouldn't discredit someone's victories just based on the platform or connection that they played on. I'm not personally familiar with when Gold competed and how the circumstances of playing over wifi changes the gameplay differently from how netplay changes it.

I'll be honest and say I'm not familiar with any of the newer players, as I've been out of touch with the mod for a while now, and while that old clip doesn't really do justice, I'm not gonna argue my placing any further. Back in the day, I was never a fan of doing tournaments or anything, so it's not like I'm well known or anything. I just happen to get peeved when someone talks bad about the time I put into a char.
It's been a rough week and a half for me, so I'm gonna apologize for the outburst. I was wrong on what the % was on up b. I'm not up to date with the things going on in minus, so it's kinda hard for me to judge how things have changed. I will say tho, you're an alright dude.

 

[EpicNonBread]

That's why by Netplay standards Gold and Ellipsis are playing like they've got potatoes tied to all their fingers.

I suppose that makes the level of play unimpressive in comparison to our netplay experience now. But wouldn't this be similar to Ken being King of his time? He was master of what technical skill and skill ceiling they had at the time, likewise, the wifi top players were good under their own circumstances.

I'll be honest and say I'm not familiar with any of the newer players, as I've been out of touch with the mod for a while now, and while that old clip doesn't really do justice, I'm not gonna argue my placing any further. Back in the day, I was never a fan of doing tournaments or anything, so it's not like I'm well known or anything. I just happen to get peeved when someone talks bad about the time I put into a char.
It's been a rough week and a half for me, so I'm gonna apologize for the outburst. I was wrong on what the % was on up b. I'm not up to date with the things going on in minus, so it's kinda hard for me to judge how things have changed. I will say tho, you're an alright dude.

What a weird situation we have here. An out of touch, "retired" veteran, and a hotheaded, overconfident newbie walk into a bar. I definitely didn't want to seem as if I was doubting your capability as a skilled player. And I have to say, I'm sorry as well for the way I have been responding. I'm blunt, unnecessarily sarcastic, and outright rude. I'm going to take whatever insight I can from what you said about playing Smash, so thanks! And as our first time meeting one another, nice to meet you!

 

[Gold_TSG]

I suppose that makes the level of play unimpressive in comparison to our netplay experience now. But wouldn't this be similar to Ken being King of his time? He was master of what technical skill and skill ceiling they had at the time, likewise, the wifi top players were good under their own circumstances.



What a weird situation we have here. An out of touch, "retired" veteran, and a hotheaded, overconfident newbie walk into a bar. I definitely didn't want to seem as if I was doubting your capability as a skilled player. And I have to say, I'm sorry as well for the way I have been responding. I'm blunt, unnecessarily sarcastic, and outright rude. I'm going to take whatever insight I can from what you said about playing Smash, so thanks! And as our first time meeting one another, nice to meet you!

I saw your playtester application, and saw you do Smash 4, so if you're ever interested, I'd be more than happy to trade blows with ya there!

 

[EpicNonBread]

I saw your playtester application, and saw you do Smash 4, so if you're ever interested, I'd be more than happy to trade blows with ya there!

Definitely not my main game, but I'll take a challenge to any title. I'll hit you up one day.

 

[Keebyplays97]

They should give ganon his project m up tilt to use as a combo and kill move.

 

[Green Hell Zone]

Sonic should have a snowboard.

 

[ThePwnzr]

Seems settled now, but I feel like I need to post this. Cant. Resist. Frame data.

First, up B has armor on startup, so it's not unsafe to use on anyone unaware.

DK's UpB does indeed have super armor on it (from frames 5-16), however in the air it's intangible instead (Frame 1-6, with the initial hitbox coming out frame 4. Yay, invincible hitboxes!), so it's probably more of a 'so this move doesn't suck' thing for the ground version.

DK's up B does like 60% or so damage if a majority of the hits connect. There is no reason it shouldn't be SDIable. It's meant to catch landings and combo out of dthrow at low %s..

60% max damage is ridiculous. On paper it only gets a max of 36% (4 5% hits, 4 3% hits, 1 4% hit), and you'd be hardpressed to even get that number. The best I could get was 34%. The starting hitbox on the aerial version is a good edgeguard tool maybe? But why do that when you can bair? Aerial's hitboxes are pretty bad, only meant to guard his recovery so it isn't terrible. His arms are intangible though.

Continuing the first quote up there. You also can't cancel (no IASA frames) either version, so you're stuck until he goes fully back to standing. Grounded, last hitbox is out Frame 56, and the entire move is 85 frames. That's 29 frames, almost an entire 1/2 a second (30 frames) to get grabbed or punished (likely to death because he's so huge).

All-in-all, it's a purely recovery move. Everything it can do, you can probably bair, throw a barrel, or do literally anything else, and have a much lower chance of getting punished for it.

 

[EpicNonBread]

On paper it only gets a max of 36% (4 5% hits, 4 3% hits, 1 4% hit), and you'd be hardpressed to even get that number. The best I could get was 34%.

It seems you need to start hitting them with one side of the move, appropriately follow their SDI, and get them to the other side of you (while keeping them within the hitboxes) for the move do deal out the entire 36% of damage. The set up is weird and in most cases isn't worth going for (not that all the hits will land anyway being that the move can be SDI'd out of).

All-in-all, it's a purely recovery move. Everything it can do, you can probably bair, throw a barrel, or do literally anything else, and have a much lower chance of getting punished for it.

As it stands, yes it is currently outclassed by other moves for most situations (neutral edgeguarding, comboing, etc) but as an OOS option, grounded Up B while still being punishable and predictable, is still one of if not his best option OOS. This is why I propose making the move guarantee that all of its hits land. We've seen how the move can be designed with OOS option kept in mind in Melee and PM while alos being his recovery, but Minus's grounded Up B makes the usage of the move in this way unreliable, heavily stripping DK of a tool that I think he could really use.

 

[Ludacario]

Here are some changes for certain chars I am proposing:

Link
Fair autocancel - Specifically the first hit, this would boost Link's much lacking shield pressure up close
Upb tether cancel - This would boost his recovery and give him a decent mixup that he needs when trying to get back to the stage. If there was some way to make it a very laggy move upon missing, I think it would be a fair addition. If added, I recommend only allowing it to be cancelled when in the air, to prevent upb on stage to grab. Also if missing the ledge, grant more endlag to prevent it from being abused as an offensive option.
First hit of bair adjustments - It doesn't link properly into the second hit.

Falco
F-air adjustments - Yes, reduction of range is necessary. As of right now Falco's f-air is just a single massive hitbox, all pointing straightforward. I suggest splitting it into three seperate boxes. One on each of his wings, pointing slightly away from Falco. For instance one on the south-most part of his model would point approximately 20 degrees south, and opposite for the north. The beak would be a much reduced size compared to now, but the same zero degree direction. It would make it harder for Falco to get f-air chains but also give him options and mixups depending where he hits the opponent. Still a nerf, but a creative one at least. (if you want to be cheeky, put a small hitbox on his feet that does something. I don't care what it is, it doesn't need to Yoshi Foot at all, but it could be a weak 1 percent non-flinch windbox or something)
Decrease Side-b priority (If wavedashing is added ) - Straightforward, but if wavedashing is added make side-b much much easier for chars to beat out side-b. C'mon I know you guys are smart.
Side-b shorten shortcut - I mentioned this before but haven't heard about it much. Wanted to make sure it's being considered.
B Reverse second laser - This wouldn't be much of a buff, but it would look super cool if Falco could B reverse each laser of his SHDL.

Bowser
I already discussed Bowser changes earlier, so I won't repost the old ones here.
Swirling Fortress end-lag decreased slightly - With the new Bowser changes I am very excited for, decreasing his upb end-lag slightly by just a couple frames would make a big difference on the viability of the jab > upb tech. Against faster chars its still a free punish.
Shorten Jumpsquat (Especially if wavedashing is added ) - Bowser has an 8 frame jumpsquat. 8 frames. If wavdashing is added, he will have the slowest wavedash in the game. Making it 7 will at least keep him on the same time as Ganon.

Captain Falcon
Reverse Knee consistency - When falcon hits an opponent with knee, holding back on the control stick would activate the reverse hitbox, while holding any other direction (or no direction) would leave the normal knee hitbox. Just being more consistent with the directions is good.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Some minor clean up on repetitive posts.

Since it's becoming popular for people to continue to post about my exaggeration on DK's up B damage well after the point that I admitted to recalling the wrong %, I'm gonna warn any member who brings it up again. We all get old and our memory starts to go. Please knock it off.