Buffs (Re-Do)

Discussion in 'Characters' started by Lightning, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    That's some amazing progress you've made with the SSE, Sammi. I can't wait to see what you come up with next.

    BTW, did anyone like these two ideas from the first topic?

    Only Gold_TSG made a comment, on Pikachu, saying he didn't need any buffs.
     
  2. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    I don't play with items in most cases, so I can't really say much about Snake's. Given how stun works in minus, it makes his current FS much easier to kill with, but it's still pretty meh overall.

    EDIT: OH. his fsmash. I personally think it's pretty interesting as it is since you can mix it up between explosions.
     
  3. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    I don't know about snakes f smash. Maybe if they were two or three hit ok that would help?

    I can assure you that pika doesn't need a whole lot of buffs. Just nuetral b spam into skull bash into double thunders for spiking and GGs. This is stupidly effective. I hate how all of pikas combos usually start with nuetral b spam. Zamus is similar, but at least her special doesn't chain into itself!
     
  4. owo

    owo Active Member

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    make ice climbers side B like meta knights tornado ;)
     
  5. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    I have done my fair share of pika complaining as well, and it's mainly the B spam. It locks characters way too easily, giving him a super safe approach.
     
  6. WastedCrits

    WastedCrits New Member

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    I'd like Ike's side-b to be able to go past people without attacking by holding b or something, I could absolutely not approach DDD because he would stop and hit the waddle-dees, even when I tried to go over them. If possible, it might be helpful to make charging attacks in general, like Ike and Falcon's side-B, marth's neutral B, and probably others, not activate when reaching a waddle-dee. I'm probably just really bad against DDD, but I can't even figure out how to get near him to attack, coupled with the fact that he's really dangerous up close as well.
     
  7. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    Ike just plain suffers against DDD due to his lack of speed and mobility, unfortunately.
     
  8. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    I'd like to think that's just a matchup thing. Maybe that's wrong though.
     
  9. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    What are Snake's chances of getting two new taunts this update? I'm guessing "not good", since taunts aren't a priority right now... :/

    I wish you guys had implemented the Smoking taunt before Project M did... You know that taunt wasn't created just for Project M, right? It was intended for any mod that wanted to use it, originally. Just ask the guy who made it, Eternal Yoshi. I was the tester for that taunt's development.

    At any rate, my old suggestions would still work:

    1.) Cloaking Device (only lasts for a limited time or until Snake gets hit. Name tag remains visible). Dunno what animation you would use... Intro animation reversed, or a variant of his "C4 Detonate" animation, maybe? A custom animation would be better. He could say "Kept you waiting, huh" if the taunt wears off on its own.
    2.) Use his wait animation (where he puts his hand to his chin briefly) and have him say "Good" or "Not even close". You could make it so he says one when facing right, and the other when facing left, or one when the button is tapped / other when held.

    If Snake could plant C4, Mines, or Proximity Bombs (if he had one as he went in the box) while moving around in his box, that would be funny. I'd like to see the time limit on his box removed... And rather than having a grenade spawn immediately on that one box taunt, how about making it so Snake lifts up the box just enough to roll a grenade out if a certain button is pressed during the taunt?

    FYI, Eternal Yoshi already tried to animate Snake walking around under the box with his legs visible, instead of Snake sliding around on his ass, but he found this to be impossible to animate due to Snake's coding. Dunno if it's still impossible, or if advances have been made... But I'm sure it's too much effort for you guys to spend on a taunt, anyway.

    ...

    Why do I bother, none of that is going to be implemented... :(
     
  10. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    I agree snake needs some more variety in his taunts. He does more than just hide in a box.
     
  11. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    For snake, we all agree that he needs more taunts bent. I don't know about your suggestions though. I think the cloaking device taunt can work, especially if he gets the tag all the way through.
     
  12. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Snake's smoking taunt in P:M is something we have permission to use, but can't use because the cigarette actually replaces the Nikita.

    We on the dev team also agree that Snake needs more taunt variety, but we wouldn't know what they'd be, and our animator is going through some tough times right now, so he's not really available to assist us.
     
  13. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    Re: Kirby's powers.

    I have a suggestion for bowser, my suggestion to put royal rampage/galactic crusher over the current side b and revive the fire breath (actually i suggested a chargeable fireball, that'd look like the gandouken) might make this less awkward to see in gameplay :p my idea was that side b with bowser should be a slow marching kind of move, and instead of automatically grabbing when you bumped into someone, you had to let go of b on time for it, but if you let go without grabbing someone, the claw swipe from melee would show up... and then just like with royal rampage, on the ground you can input the direction to do any of his current rr throws, and if used in the air, you can use either the original side b body slam thing, or the galactic crusher, depending on if you held down the b button or not or something like that... then i thought the neutral b should have either a chargeable fire ball breath thing that shot a slowly moving fireball inspired either by the old mario game fireballs, or mario64's fire breath that burned the ground or chased the ground, like pikachu's thundershock does, since bowser's fire used to do that too... there are plenty of ways bowser's firebreath has been used throughout all his iterations, and i'd like to see as many variations of the iconic firebreath as possible... maybe one can be used as an ultra taunt and another as a default...? ... ...another thought for the royal rampage is to make one of his taunts that little tantrum thing he has in mario64 when he gets damaged and breaks the floor into the star shape, and make it so he either hurts people on the ground, or does that shockwave in mario 64, or it works as a charge for your next royal rampage to be much faster and actually look like that koopa charge in mario 64 (there were so many AWESOME moves that could be inspired by mario64)

    can't ike just slide if you hold shield?... or does shield stop your momentum?... ...i haven't played as ike against a DDD...

    as far as snake needing articles goes, why not use the tiny grenade rockets from his FS for a cigarette? or edit them to look like one?... you have to zoom in so much just to see the stupid little bullets, and in my experience, it's not very easy to see the cigarettes in pm either :p as long as you have a tiny thin object, who cares?? plus it'd be hilarious to zoom in real close to see that snake's shooting exploding cigarettes from that helicopter!! XD and if the cigarette in his taunt actually did explode when it hit someone, (maybe for balance, it can hurt snake too, so give it small range so you have to space perfectly to not get hit) wouldn't that also be freaking awesome??
     
  14. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    FS articles aren't loaded unless your in FS state, unfortunately

    Also, the biggest issue with giving Bowser back his firebreath or ANY projectile whatsoever, is that bowser is now a grappler. It makes no sense to give a grappler a projectile when he was designed to want to get in close and personal to slam them :p He also doesn't need a projectile in his current state
     
  15. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    damn :( ...well that might also explain why just holding a smashball while someone else is using theirs has been causing crashes with me when i put in the multiple fs code :p ...anyway to change this stuff?.. i really want to be able to use more than one fs at a time when i'm playing with fs on... like, is there a way to move the articles and files from the fs folder to the characters' file??
     
  16. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    Re: Kirby's powers.

    But it's bowser! Something has to be done!

    As long as he can keep the koopa hop, I'm fine with moving his moves around. That technique can be pretty damn useful.
     
  17. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Still impossible to add articles, eh? It's not possible to use a Nikita missile model as both itself and a cigarette, right? I'm guessing you can't shrink it down, remove the fins, and change the texture, without affecting Snake's side B too... But then, what articles did the ejected clip and the knife replace on Project M Snake? The RPG and...?

    I know Peach's turnips can be different colors, but they each have their own model, IIRC.

    What article of Charizard's are you replacing to give him a fireball?
     
  18. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    and what about the butterfly shaped down b that shows up?? isn't that another article?.. does that have or is it supposed to have a different effect than the original?
     
  19. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    My guess is it's the same article and effect, just a different model. Like Peach's Turnips.

    ...Exactly what is an article, anyway? I'm a bit unclear on that.
     
  20. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    An article is a pre-computed prop that the character can generate. The article can be many things, and just like peach's turnips they generally have a model for them somewhere. Pika's thunder, thunder-jolt, snake's rockets, as well as all of peach's f-smash things. Even toad is an article, as is toad's spore shot. However these articles are controlled in completely different places then normal moves. Normal moves are basically universal between characters, at least the coding is, whereas articles' ParamAccessor functions and instantiation/InstancePools are inside the module files. Porting Articles is something that PhantomWings was working on not TOO long ago, however it was VEEEERRRYYY glitchy and was more experimentation then serious business.

    Anywho, There is near NO way to port or create new articles, and if there IS a way, it would require someone skilled in modules like Dantarion or PhantomWings to look into. Those two are currently the only sufficiently knowledgeable individuals who would be able to do it. And from the last time me and him spoke, we were working on ExModules for the clone engine. So, in that regard i don't think we weill be seeing any article related business out of him anytime soon.

    [/EndInfoDump]
     
  21. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Thanks for the explanation, Sammi. Now, about Snake's taunts...

    Here's what I suggest:

    Up-Taunt: Cloaking Device
    Side-Taunt: "Good!" (wait animation) or Eternal Yoshi's Salute taunt
    Down-Taunt: Stealth Box


    Dunno if it helps, but here's some raw material to work with:

    Up-Taunt: Cloaking Device - Download
    Here's a very "work-in-progress" version of the Cloaking Device side taunt. It was created by Eternal Yoshi and I, with Brawl Minus in mind. Please check this page out for details about it and its current limitations.

    I think it would be great if Snake says "Not even close" when he lands a grab while invisible. If you don't want to use that voice clip here, then incorporate it into his "Good" up taunt, perhaps?

    Side-Taunt: "Good!" - Download
    Up to version 2.5, Snake's up taunt in Project M was this. It's one of his Wait animations, with voices linked to it. Snake puts his hand to his chin briefly, and says "Good" or "Tasty". I'd like it if he could say "Good" if Left Taunt is pressed, or "Not even close" if Right Taunt is pressed (if that clip isn't used elsewhere).

    As of version 3.0, this Taunt is no longer included in Project M; it was replaced by "Colonel, Mission Accomplished". I liked the "Good" / "Tasty" Taunt better, and suggested multiple times that they revert it, but no one ever responded... So it's fair game now.

    Also included in that .zip file are Falcon's old Project M files. In there somewhere is his flame aura taunt which has him saying the quiet "Yess". I'm not sure if he still says that in version 3.0.

    Down-Taunt: Stealth Box (already in MAX 1.01, just rearrange it)
    If we only keep one version of the box taunt, I suggest we keep the current up taunt version, since it's the fastest and has the smoothest animation. As for losing the grenade box side taunt, no big deal -- you can get the same effect with up taunt by drawing, shield-dropping, and picking up a grenade before you get under the box.

    Suggestions for "Stealth Box"

    - Remove the time limit on how long Snake can stay in the box, or increase it by a lot. As-is, Snake says "Kept you waiting, huh" whenever he exits the box, but he can't stay in the box for long, so no one is kept waiting... Plus, Snake already says this when he appears at the beginning of the match (only sometimes?). If kept in, he should only say this if he stays in the box for a long time.

    - Snake can taunt while inside the box already, by pressing up taunt, but he cannot move the box while doing this, and he says "Muarm" much more than "Tasty" or "Good". Sounds like he's eating something in the box -- how about making him heal by 1% or 2% every time he says one of these? Then again, if you're taking out DK's healing taunt, I doubt you would approve of this...

    - Instead, make it a sneaky, tactical box. Allow Snake to drop grenades and previously drawn proximity bombs, place and detonate previously-placed C4, or even plant land mines while in the box. If he could do those things silently, even better! If not used elsewhere, the "Not even close" clip would be funny to use while in the box.

    - I noticed that Snake's box has a hitbox when he removes it himself, but it does not when he slides off the edge while in the box. Can a hitbox be added there too?

    And one more suggestion outside of taunts:

    - How about making runaway Cyphers spike? Also, when a second Cypher is drawn, the first makes a big explosion, but it has no hitbox. Might be worth adding one?

    Other misc. things I noticed while testing Snake:

    - Snake won't cover his ears if he's close to an exploding grenade that was drawn via side taunt (or side B, too? I forget).
    - Toss a Proximity Bomb up and hit it with a move on its way down for a powerful explosive punch or kick that doesn't damage Snake. Probably a waste of a Proximity Bomb, but it looks cool and it fun when it works. Explosive punches and kicks!

    These are mostly suggestions I've made before, in one place or another...
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  22. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    I cant say I agree with most of what you said, partly because I didn't understand it. Remember what sammi said. Taunts and ultrataunts aren't the way to buff characters. that being said...

    Eating food while in the box is absolutely golden! Snake shouldn't have enough time to heal himself more than 6 or 8 percent between kos though. This would keep it from being more than hilarious?

    Pooping out grenades while in the moving box is also great! Planting down b mines would be good to I guess, but an unnecessary buff that im on the fence about. snake doesn't need this kind of both. With pooping out grenades, there shouldn't be any sound :)
     
  23. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    Oh yeah, cloaking device taunt seems okay. If his tag is there the whole time, there is no issue hear. One of the more simple taunts you suggested would be nice too.

    You know, if you want contribute to the game bent, you should really focus on actual suggestions and buffs. They care less about taunts right now. Most of my suggestions are tweaks and buffs. That's why I count a good four things that I suggested that ended up in minus.
     
  24. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    I suggested taunt changes because I thought I had some good ideas about them, and I can't think of many regular buffs to suggest.

    I'd still like to see...
    - Ike's side B given a jump cancel.
    - Snake given the ability to roll a grenade along the ground if down is held when B is let go.
    - Olimar's Pikmin come out in order, instead of at random.
    - Samus given the ability to stay in Morph Ball mode, and more beam moves.
    - Wario's bike be more useful as an attack. Let him get off it quicker, and make it keep going without him, with a hitbox on it. If it hits a wall, it still explodes, but Wario should have jumped off by then.
    - Ganondorf's laughing victory taunt swapped with a regular taunt (sword taunt? Keep the super armor). A windbox added to the end of his spinning taunt if there isn't one already.
     
  25. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    Love the taunt ideas... healing in the box, and grenade dropping in the box are good enough IMO. if you can drop a grenade while in box, then the one spawned at the beginning doesn't really need to be there... also, yeah, eating shouldn't heal that much or that quickly, just enough to heal like ten damage during the taunt is good... maybe instead, eating while in the box takes a while, but heals ten over all, that way you have to choose between freely moving/using the grenades, or eating...

    -Ike's side b is jump cancel-able in the air at least, i know that, forgot about whether or not on ground..
    -snake being able to roll grenades would be neat... not very many uses for it, but i could imagine a few... ...
    -i don't think Olimar needs that tbh :p it's not really that big a deal which ones you get... it'd be pretty nice if you can taunt to change them all to the same color, and have the color chosen be random... that way you could taunt until you find what you like... i don't think this should be instant, BTW, but it shouldn't take as long as, say, Luigi's fireball taunt, either...
    -i would love SO MUCH to see Samus's morph-ball/spider-ball have more moves/utility... if she could at least cling to walls and slowly climb in morph-ball mode and maybe slide down automatically if you didn't try to climb, that would be awesome... also, if either running/running low B - - - or running/f low tilt A made you do a small ball dash, that could be useful... ... and i know it's annoying to hear, but i'd like to keep the option of the fire fair... maybe tilting side b does the screw attack forward?.... ...also, i'd like the power bombs to take a little longer to pull out than they do now and maybe have a slower explosion, instead of almost a bob-bomb blast, and maybe re-implement the original weaker bombs as an alt down B (if possible), like tapping down b vs holding = regular bombs vs power... ...
    -the idea to make Wario's bike keep going without him is something i'v been in favor of since the first time i heard the idea!! it should still explode if it hits a wall, but maybe start to decelerate from when you jump off... i love this idea, and even if i'm forced to be the victim to it countless times, it makes perfect sense to put it in, and it would make the move so much more fun... also, maybe he should be a little easier to hit off, since it's compensated by being able to continue if he falls off
    -I suggested earlier to move Ganon's super armor taunt to the knuckle pounding animation on side taunt... this taunt kinda looks like he's saying "that all you got?" and he chuckles a little, so it would make perfect sense that attacking him while he's using this taunt would be ineffective... I also noted that this frees up the sword taunt for whatever sword-mode Ganon movesets other people (myself included) would like to see on him... there have been multiple (mediocre) movesets that feature Ganon pulling out his sword when you use that taunt for a slightly altered moveset that involves a lot of the sword play moves shown in twilight princess...
     

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