Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
IMO, both of those ideas sound better than Zelda's 3.5 ranged D-Tilt.
It and ranged Dash Attack feel so weak now...
Brawl Minus v3.5 Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Kien
- Start date
It and ranged Dash Attack feel so weak now...
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
They didn't need to spike so well, that much is true...
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
Can someone explain to me why bowser is supposedly so good?. Im not saying he's bad. Im saying Bowser is low-middle teir at best. He is "High" on my list. Keep in mind that my list is not by any ranked order. It is by categories. I dont think Pin should've used it in his list.
How to beat bowser:
1.Punish
2.You won.
How to beat bowser:
1.Punish
2.You won.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
There's currently no reason to ever use ranged D-Tilt over short-hopped ranged D-Air, though.
Anyone know of any other moves that are always outclassed by another move (that serves the same purpose) on the same character?
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
If Zelda's staying on the ground, then ranged F-Smash or ranged Dash Attack (debatable) are better options than ranged D-Tilt against offstage opponents.
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
There, now it's a fact. Zelda shouldn't go close to the ledge following her opponent unless she's going for a spike, IMO.
NEWB
Well-Known Member
Yes that is probably true. I mean, if she can do a ranged fsmash, she is much too far to do a ranged dtilt anyway. It's if she is forced closer to ledge that the foe is recovering from that is under speculation. You have to predict how they might recover from said ledge. If they just get up or roll, then zelda would be on the ground next to them, countering with regular dtilt, grab, or dsmash really. If she thinks they might jump, then yeah, do a dair.
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
We've talked enough about Zelda for her to have her topic, ha...
Here's some reference pics of Zelda's D-Tilt, before and after the 3.5 Nerf:
Here's some reference pics of Zelda's D-Tilt, before and after the 3.5 Nerf:
Before 3.5:
After 3.5:
What usually happens when I try to use it now:
Ledgegrab invincibility keeps it from affecting recovering opponents.
After 3.5:
What usually happens when I try to use it now:
Ledgegrab invincibility keeps it from affecting recovering opponents.
D-Tilt's ranged hitbox is smaller than it seems...
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
I knew you already fixed it, I just wanted everyone else to see what I was talking about.
Valravn
Well-Known Member
Alright, I haven't seen much discussion on Sonic around here. Why is he considered bottom-tier? I'm fairly new to the metagame, since the people I regularly play with don't play every single character. (I haven't played against a good Falco, for example.) I'm a Sonic main, and I think he actually has very good matchups against Ganondorf, Fox, Falcon, ZSS, and other characters people consider high-tier. A lot of characters have problems dealing with his relentless combo pressure. I will admit, sometimes it takes an absurd amount of damage to actually KO some characters, but he doesn't really have problems racking up that damage.
Bashdemears
Jiggs2stronk
I find sonic to be shut down pretty easily. He just can't get in there.
Valravn
Well-Known Member
By which means? I found that I had to mix up my approaches a little to get past certain hitboxes, but I don't think he's wholly outzoned by many characters. If someone is spamming moves to keep you away, you can just dash-crouch-reverse or air-stall to fake them out, then zoom back in to punish. I suppose he doesn't have that many disjointed hitboxes (at least not large ones?) to outrange people with, but you can still get up in peoples' face almost all the time.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
I've faced pretty good Sonics, and I had no issues dealing with them with Dorf or DK. It's a matter of playing the waiting game. Bait Sonic into thinking you're falling for baits, then just hit him. DK in particular only really needs one good hit before Sonic is as good as done.
Valravn
Well-Known Member
That's not really a flaw of either character though. That's just thinking on yomi levels. One could just as easily say that Sonic wins the situation by baiting DK into thinking Sonic thinks DK is falling for baits. I will say that Ganondorf is a little hard to deal with just because of the massive hitboxes that he puts out, but I haven't had as much experience against DK.
I run tournaments out of my house every week now that summer's started (used to be biweekly). Anyways I actually have tournament results because Brawl- is one of the games in rotation. To avoid filling up my house I run tournaments as S64/melee/ProjectM with the next week switching to Brawl/Brawl-. Anyways here were the top sixteen in our last Brawl- Tourney with some additional comments by me to let you guys get to know their skill level:
1. Longbottom(ME!) (Fox/Peach/DDD) ($15)
2. WickdJax (Ike,Falco,Luigi)($10) (comments: This dude is legit with Ike and was the best player in our Brawl- community until I showed up)
3.FemaleLongbottom(Peach) (My sister who taught me how to play peach) ($5) (comments: My l'il sis is legit w/ peach and has the best shield pressure out of any of us. She's also unlocked the secrets to Peach's weirdest movement options and can basically wiz around the stage O_O)
4.Shiznnits (Ice Climbers) (comments: This guy basically came out of nowhere. This was only his second tournament but he discovered a stupid exploit w/ dThrow and blizzard. This will be banned in following tournaments.)
5.DreamLandKing(DDD) (comments: This dude is also rather new but has placed highly in the last 3 tourneys)
5.Kipperz(Wolf, Shiek) (comments: not to much to say here really. Only guy I've seen who uses wolf's shine as an offensive move though.)
7.WickdKeats(ZSS,Lucario) (comments: WickdJax's little brother. His ZSS is insane because he can abuse the shit out of those armour pieces and can glidetoss with 100% accuracy. You're basically down a stock because of them.)
7.$money(read: cash money) (Roy) (comments: he's our Link/Bowser main but decided to go Roy this tourney. Usually does better w/ those other characters)
9.John(Meta Knight) (comments: His first tourney.)
9.Fred(Ganondorf) (comments: One half of our best doubles team. Does better in doubles than singles)
9.teirlistzdontexit(Yes that's his tag. I didn't misspell exist either -_-) (Ness, Ivysaur) (comments: newer guy. Not much else to say)
9.George(Jiggs) (comments: Other half of our best doubles team. Usually does better in singles than Fred)
13.Lucas (Lucas) (yes Lucas is this dude's real name) (Newest member of our community and first tourney though he has played minus before.)
13. Lovegood (Pichu) (comments: my gf and doubles partner. But she uses pichu so she probably should be here)
13. lickitidareu2(Yes that's his tag -_-) (Sonic) ( commentsOur Sonic player. He's a veteran but stays around here in rankings)
13.HeyZues(his real name is the mexican pronunciation of Jesus -_-) (PKMN Trainer) (comments: uses all three pokemon)
That's it. Note that not all our players and not all characters were represented. Hopes this sparks some fun discussion.
1. Longbottom(ME!) (Fox/Peach/DDD) ($15)
2. WickdJax (Ike,Falco,Luigi)($10) (comments: This dude is legit with Ike and was the best player in our Brawl- community until I showed up)
3.FemaleLongbottom(Peach) (My sister who taught me how to play peach) ($5) (comments: My l'il sis is legit w/ peach and has the best shield pressure out of any of us. She's also unlocked the secrets to Peach's weirdest movement options and can basically wiz around the stage O_O)
4.Shiznnits (Ice Climbers) (comments: This guy basically came out of nowhere. This was only his second tournament but he discovered a stupid exploit w/ dThrow and blizzard. This will be banned in following tournaments.)
5.DreamLandKing(DDD) (comments: This dude is also rather new but has placed highly in the last 3 tourneys)
5.Kipperz(Wolf, Shiek) (comments: not to much to say here really. Only guy I've seen who uses wolf's shine as an offensive move though.)
7.WickdKeats(ZSS,Lucario) (comments: WickdJax's little brother. His ZSS is insane because he can abuse the shit out of those armour pieces and can glidetoss with 100% accuracy. You're basically down a stock because of them.)
7.$money(read: cash money) (Roy) (comments: he's our Link/Bowser main but decided to go Roy this tourney. Usually does better w/ those other characters)
9.John(Meta Knight) (comments: His first tourney.)
9.Fred(Ganondorf) (comments: One half of our best doubles team. Does better in doubles than singles)
9.teirlistzdontexit(Yes that's his tag. I didn't misspell exist either -_-) (Ness, Ivysaur) (comments: newer guy. Not much else to say)
9.George(Jiggs) (comments: Other half of our best doubles team. Usually does better in singles than Fred)
13.Lucas (Lucas) (yes Lucas is this dude's real name) (Newest member of our community and first tourney though he has played minus before.)
13. Lovegood (Pichu) (comments: my gf and doubles partner. But she uses pichu so she probably should be here)
13. lickitidareu2(Yes that's his tag -_-) (Sonic) ( commentsOur Sonic player. He's a veteran but stays around here in rankings)
13.HeyZues(his real name is the mexican pronunciation of Jesus -_-) (PKMN Trainer) (comments: uses all three pokemon)
That's it. Note that not all our players and not all characters were represented. Hopes this sparks some fun discussion.
I'm trying to save up enough money for a capture card because Dolphin videos don't render correctly on my computer for some reason. I do think we're good since all of us play competitive melee and brawl with a couple of us making it to bracket play at WHOBO MLG this year. Also I still haven't seen wolf's shine used in vids for some reason.