Brawl Minus 4.0b is here!

sergeilankoff

New Member
This is probably just an issue against the A.I., but Bowser seems to be able to consistently zero-to-death heavier characters by chaining his down air into itself until kill percents, then using an upsmash. I haven't gotten a chance to play this build with any humans yet (Netplay build is happening when? :D?) but once I get my SD set up for some smashstack netplay, I'll see if it's DIable or preventable.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Ganon is indeed too heavy. A lot of things that work in Q no longer work in b and Ganon basically requires a complete relearning because of it. In essence Ganon no longer has any aerial prowess (he had a bit in Q but it's gone now) and is now limited to ground combos and Gandouken spacing.

I have picked up Wolf until something is done about it either reverted gravity or something on Ganon to compensate.

Sounds like thunderstorming got removed, among other things [SH AC Dair for those who aren't familiar with the term]. I'd be willing to bet Pikastorming was removed too, which would be quite a shame [same thing, except with Pikachu].
 

Darxmarx

The Learning Star Warrior
I hope I'm not too late! I'm normally on top of release dates...
Expect me to say some stuff over the weekend.
 

Mawootad

Minus Backroom
Sounds like thunderstorming got removed, among other things [SH AC Dair for those who aren't familiar with the term]. I'd be willing to bet Pikastorming was removed too, which would be quite a shame [same thing, except with Pikachu].
There is a fair amount of stuff that did stop being possible in 4.0b due to gravity changes, but Ganonstorming is still in and not that hard to pull off either. The timing is stricter, with what should be a 3-4 frame reduction in the window to start the dair, but it's far from impossible. Pikastorming does seem to be impossible with the current physics changes though, although there's a big chance that it'll be back for 4.0 full.
 

Lucis Perficio

Radiant Hero of Blue Flames
Just noticed the trail on Ike's sword is a palette of Tabuu's wings :p

Noticed it in a screenshot of him completing his dair, since the trail bends slightly.
 

Mawootad

Minus Backroom
We'll be releasing a netplay bundle as soon as we get a hide all notifications code working because thirty seconds of "you've unlocked stuff" is really annoying. Netplay itself works just fine otherwise and is pretty quick to configure: make a 512 MB virtual SD, inject Minus with WinImage, set Brawl as your default ISO in dolphin, and then use boot.elf from your Minus download as the netplay app; we just aren't releasing a netplay bundle yet for polish reasons.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
About the new Gandouken -- would someone please remind me where it came from? Wasn't it made by a outside dev who gave us permission to use it? I'd like to look up that person's work to see what else he's done... Was it from an early build of Ashingda's Triforce Ganondorf mod? That project is coming along very nicely.
.

That's right. I talked to him personally and asked about it. Made a version that combined his sword ganon with Minus ganon, but I gave up on it.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
That's right. I talked to him personally and asked about it. Made a version that combined his sword ganon with Minus ganon, but I gave up on it.
Whaat?! I'd really like to try that version, even if it's incomplete. :)
 

Mohl

Active Member
Wasn't Raichu supposed to be added for 4.0, or was that some april fools joke or something that went far over my head?
 

A person

Member
Not sure if this is intentional or not, but the gravity change makes Links, TLs, Diddy's and Sonic's recoveries not go as high, or in the case of Diddy, fall more during the charge.


Having a lot of fun with this!
 

Mawootad

Minus Backroom
I don't think it's something that was specifically aimed at fighters with up-specials affected by normal gravity, but the physics changes were partly aimed at weakening recoveries.
 

justadood

Just a dood with ideas
Love playing as jiggz still, but Ganon got a bit slower on ground and harder to maneuver in air xP I'm sticking to wario, jiggz, and boozer :D speaking of, what happened to the dark bowser, dry bowser, and cdi bowser redskins in talks?..

Also, I'm busy now for a while, but in a few months I should be back online more, and I'd like a chance to either discuss some ideas for an addition to the game, or some help and tutelage to learn to insert the hacks myself x3
 

HothRaka

New Member
So I'm looking to play this game without the minus artwork. I've downloaded the vBrawl art version twice and BrawlCostumeManager says it still has the minus art. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is there a mistake in the op?
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Ok, so I finally played some Minus with some guys I know last night. I can confirm my original fears... the gravity change feels very poorly implemented and I think it should be reverted with potentially a few exceptions.

Notable problems:
- Pikachu cannot SH AC dair
- Snake cannot FH nair and get all 4 hitboxes out (this was hugely disappointing for the Snake main of the group), and his nair leaves him prone to SDs offstage moreso than before (also a huge annoyance/risk if you ever try to do jab out of shield or shieldgrab, it seemed he'd just SD, much in the way that Brawl Ike's nair would kill him.)
- Falco feels much more awkward to use onstage and off
- Link's recovery was not exactly amazing to begin with and it's now worse. It also doesn't help him onstage
- Not a problem with how the character feels, but Meta Knight's dair seems to be utterly broken... myself and another player who used him were killing people at percents only my Falco can seem to kill at, and MK takes people offstage SIGNIFICANTLY easier at low percents than Falco does. Dair also combos into fsmash onstage at various percents.

Characters that felt ok:
- Lucario feels fine (at this point he might be perfect as is, without aura... with aura he'd be a monster still...)
- I didn't try him myself, but there seemed to be no complaints with Pichu (although Pichu has been so bad so long I understand why)
- Samus felt better (although I have my issues with some changes) [this is probably due to her now falling slower anyway].
- Captain Falcon felt alright, although SH dairs didn't seem nearly as good (I preferred when you could fastfall them), and Falcon Kick.
- Wolf was a little weird but his new up+B momentum is amazing

I personally think nearly all the characters should have their gravity reverted... comboing people is still very free and it's not like people falling a little slower would make characters combo significantly worse [on the contrary, people falling slower would make Falcon dthrow work better]. I will probably offer more specific feedback later on a variety of characters, but I'll suffice to say that although Samus is headed in the right direction, the game feels frankly like it's taken 1 step forward with some of the balance changes (some of them are still very questionable though... Lucario can grab cancel down+b for maximum safety on shield, but Falcon can't JC Falcon Kick, and Falco can't cancel reflector? Really?), but then 2 steps back with an idea that might have been passable in theory but seems to fail miserably in execution [the gravity changes].
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
- Snake cannot FH nair and get all 4 hitboxes out (this was hugely disappointing for the Snake main of the group), and his nair leaves him prone to SDs offstage moreso than before (also a huge annoyance/risk if you ever try to do jab out of shield or shieldgrab, it seemed he'd just SD, much in the way that Brawl Ike's nair would kill him.)
That is indeed hugely disappointing.

I personally think nearly all the characters should have their gravity reverted... comboing people is still very free and it's not like people falling a little slower would make characters combo significantly worse.
Agreed. Instead of increasing universal gravity, I think the devs should have just altered the weights/fall speeds/etc. of a few specific characters like Samus and Pichu. Most of the cast's air game felt fine as it was in 3.Q.

Falcon can't JC Falcon Kick?
I thought they left that as it was in 3.Q? Falcon should still be able to JC Falcon Kick near the end of the move.
 
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