Brawl Minus 4.0b is here!

[Mawootad]

It's very doable, you'd just have to disable curry effects and make some slight modifications to the melee air dodge code and Fox.

Edit: I want to make sure nobody misunderstands this as something we would do in any official capacity, just that it's very easy to implement.

 

[Valravn]

I'm sure it'd be more popular than Curry Mode! Is it something that you guys just don't want to direct your efforts towards, or is it something you'd rather not have in the mod?

I haven't done much Brawl modding outside of textures/models and a little bit of move tweaking, but I'm interested enough in this to do the legwork if need be. I think a lot of people at my weekly would really enjoy it!

 

[Pin Clock]

is it something you'd rather not have in the mod?

It's this. It may sound pleasant at first, but when you actually think about it, it's a lose-lose situation for the mod itself, the player base, and drawing in potential new players.

 

[Valravn]

Fair enough. I can see how it could be a little divisive. If I get it to work, I'll keep it to myself.

 

[Bent 00]

Curry Mode is dumb IMO. Putting something fun over it sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Mohl]

Tonight I'm going to try and see if you can DACUS with gerudo dragon, though I fear it might be TAS-only. I guess I'll find out.

I honestly think the most broken character in Minus at the moment is Fox, but I don't think anyone has really begun to explore the unfathomable depths of that character. My roommate is beginning to, but I can beat him with more straightforward characters. It would take some incredible dedication to make him unbeatable, so I don't think any nerfs are warranted. If Minus had a huge competitive scene and all the best players became Fox explorers, maybe then.

Hell, fox is dangerous in some maps just because of Fox Illusion. Do it on the ground, grab someone, slide to the edge, downthrow off the map.

 

[Valravn]

And of course, reflector gliding through all of Toon Link's arrows is pretty solid.

 

[Thor]

Hell, fox is dangerous in some maps just because of Fox Illusion. Do it on the ground, grab someone, slide to the edge, downthrow off the map.

You can meteor cancel that and also tech it [and also just hold in toward center stage]... that's really only dangerous if you don't know it's a thing or can't react to something that's definitely easily reacted to by a normal human being.

And of course, reflector gliding through all of Toon Link's arrows is pretty solid.

Reflector sorta kills momentum and reflecting stuff makes Fox lag enough to where if he reflects something, Toon Link can just punish him and hit him for it, and Fox is frail enough to where TL can probably zero-death him off one good hit.

Definitely an interesting mixup, but relying on that to approach strikes me as very dangerous and asking for trouble.

 

[Valravn]

Reflector doesn't kill momentum at all when you're hurtling through the air with it out! I'll try to make a gfy of it later if I have a replay of it on my desktop, but you can go all the way across or under FD with the reflector hitbox out. Punishing it is like trying to punch a bullet out of the air.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

lol I never see a character as OP if it requires extreme dedication for them to be considered such. I don't consider Melee Fox OP mainly bc it takes ppl hours of practice to perfect him. I consider a character more OP if they'e super easy to use by everyone.

Also, a Regen mode over Curry mode sounds like a good idea.

Also, would it be likely that the Stamina limit could be raised from 300 hp to 999 hp with looping blast zones? Seems ideal for Minus at the least.

Turbo mode would be a plus, and with Minus' already ridiculous combo potential it would be outright phenomenal, albeit hilarious as well.

 

[BC]

I'm pretty disappointed that Ness's recovery is still the worst and easiest to gimp in the game. So, I propose a (possibly drug induced)idea to make Ness's recovery better.

On the ground, Ness's Up B is still the same PK Thunder projectile that he can aim into himself for the powerful kill move we all know and love/hate. But in the air, Ness becomes the projectile. He gains an electric hitbox around himself and flies around for around half a second to a second, with the same directional control as the normal projectile(without the kill power, of course).

Not gonna lie, this idea probably sounds broken, but I'm just trying to help Ness out. He's a great character, but his shitty recovery makes him probably the worst character in Minus.

 

[Valravn]

That.

Sounds.

Great.

 

[Mohl]

You can meteor cancel that and also tech it [and also just hold in toward center stage]... that's really only dangerous if you don't know it's a thing or can't react to something that's definitely easily reacted to by a normal human being.

I guess nobody else I know knows how to meteor cancel. Then again, the only other person I play against might as well be named John, even if he does win most of the time.

lol I never see a character as OP if it requires extreme dedication for them to be considered such. I don't consider Melee Fox OP mainly bc it takes ppl hours of practice to perfect him. I consider a character more OP if they'e super easy to use by everyone.

Also, a Regen mode over Curry mode sounds like a good idea.

Also, would it be likely that the Stamina limit could be raised from 300 hp to 999 hp with looping blast zones? Seems ideal for Minus at the least.

Turbo mode would be a plus, and with Minus' already ridiculous combo potential it would be outright phenomenal, albeit hilarious as well.

turbo mode is JUST the right amount of absurd.

 

[?0123456789?]

This new release of Minus has been playing really well for me, and my playtest group has been thoroughly enjoying it as well.

A couple of things that I noticed while playing:

1) It seems that after playing as one of the Pokemon, your icon on the CSS still highlights I think Toon Link (whoever is under Random) instead of whoever you just played as. I don't know if this is an issue that is currently being resolved for the full version or if it is just a minor thing that is being ignored, but I just wanted to bring it to the attention of someone who may be able to fix it if possible.

2) A weird thing happened while I was playing as Game & Watch. I was playing my friend who was using Ness and at some point on my last stock I became unable to use Judge again. As in, I input the command and it just flat out did not respond. This lasted for the rest of the stock (I don't know if whatever caused this would have been fixed upon respawning). I'm not sure what triggered this either, because it definitely worked earlier in that same game. Just a weird occurrence that may be worth looking into if you aren't already aware of it.

 

[AangNaruto]

2) A weird thing happened while I was playing as Game & Watch. I was playing my friend who was using Ness and at some point on my last stock I became unable to use Judge again. As in, I input the command and it just flat out did not respond. This lasted for the rest of the stock (I don't know if whatever caused this would have been fixed upon respawning). I'm not sure what triggered this either, because it definitely worked earlier in that same game. Just a weird occurrence that may be worth looking into if you aren't already aware of it.

I had the same issue when playing against a friend. I forget which character I was against. Dieing did not fix the issue, I was still unable to use judge. I had been spamming it a lot beforehand.

 

[Pin Clock]

This new release of Minus has been playing really well for me, and my playtest group has been thoroughly enjoying it as well.

A couple of things that I noticed while playing:

1) It seems that after playing as one of the Pokemon, your icon on the CSS still highlights I think Toon Link (whoever is under Random) instead of whoever you just played as. I don't know if this is an issue that is currently being resolved for the full version or if it is just a minor thing that is being ignored, but I just wanted to bring it to the attention of someone who may be able to fix it if possible.

This one is a known issue. While there is currently no solution or why it's even caused, we're working to figure this out.

2) A weird thing happened while I was playing as Game & Watch. I was playing my friend who was using Ness and at some point on my last stock I became unable to use Judge again. As in, I input the command and it just flat out did not respond. This lasted for the rest of the stock (I don't know if whatever caused this would have been fixed upon respawning). I'm not sure what triggered this either, because it definitely worked earlier in that same game. Just a weird occurrence that may be worth looking into if you aren't already aware of it.

This one is new, and I'll make note of it right away.

 

[Mawootad]

2) A weird thing happened while I was playing as Game & Watch. I was playing my friend who was using Ness and at some point on my last stock I became unable to use Judge again. As in, I input the command and it just flat out did not respond. This lasted for the rest of the stock (I don't know if whatever caused this would have been fixed upon respawning). I'm not sure what triggered this either, because it definitely worked earlier in that same game. Just a weird occurrence that may be worth looking into if you aren't already aware of it.

I had the same issue when playing against a friend. I forget which character I was against. Dieing did not fix the issue, I was still unable to use judge. I had been spamming it a lot beforehand.

If either of you (or anyone else who's experienced this glitch) happens to have a replay of a match where you encountered this bug I'd really appreciate if you could test if the replay desyncs after judge becomes unusable, and if it doesn't please upload the replay file and note when Judge became unusable (a timestamp would be ideal, but the stock is fine).

 

[Thor]

I'm pretty disappointed that Ness's recovery is still the worst and easiest to gimp in the game. So, I propose a (possibly drug induced)idea to make Ness's recovery better.

On the ground, Ness's Up B is still the same PK Thunder projectile that he can aim into himself for the powerful kill move we all know and love/hate. But in the air, Ness becomes the projectile. He gains an electric hitbox around himself and flies around for around half a second to a second, with the same directional control as the normal projectile(without the kill power, of course).

Not gonna lie, this idea probably sounds broken, but I'm just trying to help Ness out. He's a great character, but his shitty recovery makes him probably the worst character in Minus.

I maintain Ganondorf has a worse recovery than Ness, because he has worse air speed, less useful aerials for protecting his recovery, and a shorter range recovery overall, and is also a worse overall character. But I suppose that's nitpicking.

 

[Valravn]

Up-B is probably the most dangerous move in the game to contest, and he's good enough on stage that I don't think he needs much of a better recovery. Maybe reduce the lag on aerial side-B, but I think it's fine.

 

[Mawootad]

The weaknesses in Ganondorf and Ness's recoveries are different. Ganondorf has trouble physically getting to the ledge due to his fall speed, but once he gets there it's difficult to stop him from getting back due to the massive grab box on his up-b. Ness on the other hand has the issue that while he can recover from most things when no attempt is made to stop him if he can't get back to the ledge solely off his double jump he's extremely vulnerable to being intercepted.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

I know it may sound premature, but how soon could we be expecting another patch? I ask mainly because I don't feel like using Lucario until he gets his aura back... and I'd like for Ike's QD-cancel on the ground to be returned to its 3.Q state considering the change wasn't even part of the changelog.

 

[Pin Clock]

I know it may sound premature, but how soon could we be expecting another patch? I ask mainly because I don't feel like using Lucario until he gets his aura back... and I'd like for Ike's QD-cancel on the ground to be returned to its 3.Q state considering the change wasn't even part of the changelog.

Next patch is 4.0. We're setting things up for that, but I can't speculate a release date of it yet.

 

[Thor]

I know it may sound premature, but how soon could we be expecting another patch? I ask mainly because I don't feel like using Lucario until he gets his aura back... and I'd like for Ike's QD-cancel on the ground to be returned to its 3.Q state considering the change wasn't even part of the changelog.

1.) Lucario will be nerfed if he gets aura back... as it stands he is still incredibly strong without any aura [his up+B makes KOs off the top effortless, and uthrow side+B is quite deadly, giving him a kill confirm out of a grab and an extremely fast move that leads into KOs] and aura would compound it [down+b not killing for a while is a nice change... I kinda wish they'd keep down+B divorced from aura if it doesn't somehow make it more broken].

2.) Lucario apparently has aura, but it's really really subtle [I heard a rumor about a misplaced decimal point or something being the cause, but I do not know for certain].

3.) I'd personally love QD to get a jump-cancel on the ground to improve Ike's fluidity... although 3.Q QD-cancels would still be better than how it is now.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

3.) I'd personally love QD to get a jump-cancel on the ground to improve Ike's fluidity... although 3.Q QD-cancels would still be better than how it is now.

Yeah I'm willing to trade the 3.Q rendition to a jump-cancel, so long as he can still cancel it with normals and smashes. For me it's either a jump-cancel or a return of his special counter.

Also, in reference to Ike's counter, it's 'holes' are apparent on just about any multihitting move. It has trouble on things like Sonic's uSmash when countering from above. Ike seems to have these weird holes in armor and intangibility if he's hit from below when using his Eruption or a Counter. It's apparent when he uses an Instant Eruption, which I've been interrupted in using multiple times, to the point of using the term INTERRRRUPTION because of how often it occurs.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

How viable would a Debug Mode work with Minus? It would be easier to find bugs that way as well as easierto learn technical play or otherwise tricky moves like landing aerial Force Palms as Lucario (I find the grab portion to be a little odd in how it'll sometimes suck in an opponent at a certain range and completely pass over them if the timing is wrong).