And again, you're missing my point. I mentioned at several points that it would require TAS-level inputs to do many of the things I was talking about. Please try to read what I'm writing without putting words in my mouth. If something doesn't make sense, I'll clarify.
Fox isn't faster than Sonic in the air by just spamming side B. Of course. He is almost as fast with a good shine glide. Not faster, and not by spamming illusion.
He's still stuck in shine the entire time and has to commit to a jump to do anything meaningful out of the shine slide.
Don't make me screenshot the page, but you said earlier:
Fox is can move nearly as quickly as Sonic on the ground, and faster in the air
Alright. A shine glide is literally just illusion into reflector. You hit side B, and then you hold down B. If you don't already, I highly recommend using it against any Toon Link or Charizard. They simply can't use stage hazards against you. (They remain on the field and will hurt your opponent if touched.)
As for the 'two frame grab hitbox duration', I think you misunderstand how one should usually grab out of illusion. You don't break off the slide partway through or space for a grab, you hold a trigger button as you use side B. Here's an example.
Slide, do some damage, get free grab. I don't believe you can meaningfully SDI out of it with any character.
I'm not sure why shine gliding exists, given that shine is supposed to kill off momentum... hm...
Looks highly SDIable but I'm not sure... and in any case, you're still slowly moving in for the grab, not warping in at high speed.
Your post implies that I think Fox is overpowered or in any way stronger than he should be. I don't. He's fine. I'm not going to go into the machinations of Fox's moves with you. Maybe they secretly changed since we messed around with TAS in 3.Q. If you don't think you can wavedash out of shine and start a dash attack in the first few frames, you're welcome to that, because it will literally never be applicable in a match. No human will ever be able to hold the stick vertically on one frame and then at a shallow downward angle on the next. My point was merely to show that Fox is capable of extremely technical things in this game, not to waffle about it. That's why I tried to make it so abundantly clear that I was referring to the upper bounds of the character. Not what the average Fox player can pull off at the drop of a hat.
You can just do a dash, then c-stick down. There was a shieldstun decrease in 4.0, so this should be even less feasible, but the real issue is why wavedashing has less landing lag than it's supposed to.
You do strike me as that sort of player.
Given that this is a mod, I'd push for that to be nerfed, or everyone else to be buffed, and these days, nerfs are a lot easier to get than buffs sadly.
I've been meaning to upload
this match to better explain why I think Sonic vs. Falcon is a very even or Falcon-favored matchup. I won't go into it fully now, but here's some stuff:
I have a tendency to leave a spring at the ledge to force my opponent into doing an aerial or otherwise going around the spring, lest they be meteor smashed by the bouncing spring. It worked a bit in this match, but it didn't work every time. But it does kill Falcon
every time he messed up and ran into it. Should it be nerfed? I really don't think so. He could avoid it every time if he were more careful.
You might also notice that I got zero Dair kills in this match. That's pretty standard. Daft is pretty aware of that option, and takes care not to blindly jump offstage when I'm not in hitstun or already far below him. 'Good' options are often balanced by the other person knowing that they're good options. If it were safer for me to go for the Dair, maybe I'd try it anyway. I think it's in a good spot with this level of gravity. It's a bit stronger than a shine spike, though less risky, and weaker than Ganon's up-B, though riskier. (Weaker in the sense that you can just get out of the way with an airdodge; both are lethal if landed.)
Almost every time I am seriously hit in this match above 40%,
I die within seconds. Do I think Falcon's attacks should impart lower knockback, or that Sonic should be a much heavier character? No. That's just how the game is, and sometimes I just want to sit down and figure it out and try to excel at the game instead of trying to mold it to fit my needs. It's a lot more fun that way.
I'll probably expand more on the match analysis in another thread tomorrow.
Tendancy? More like a habit. You can go offstage and hit Falcon, then spring him when he's in a much worse spot, but you opt not to... I'd say that's just poor edgeguarding really.
I'd have to recheck, but at some point fthrow boost dair could kill people at zero... you only go for uthrow [and a killing bthrow as far as I see], but you don't seem to focus on putting Falcon offstage and killing him.
You're implying I somehow don't lab MUs or something. I look at a lot of stuff, and you'll notice I almost never push for a nerf on anything, even characters that frustrate me [as many times as Darxmarx gets the better of me (and there are more than I'd like to admit lol), I will NEVER understand Kien's obsession with nerfing a lightweight with low range and average KO power, just because he can actually do combos like everyone else and has a kill throw]. The fact is, you shouldn't be able to hit a Sonic with unlimited boost if someone actually puts time into spacing their DD and boosting carefully, and that's awful game design, plain and simple [awful stage design is why many stages aren't legal... you can't hit a Fox laser camping on Temple in Melee with basically anyone in the cast besides another Fox, which is one huge reason why it's banned (among several). Sonic's boost, if unlimited, lets him do this on every stage except possibly like Yoshi's, and even then it should be difficult because he can use the platforms to land and can walljump then boost to ledge].
I'm not asking for Sonic's dair to do less knockback, I'm asking for an angle change so it follows the rules that
every other downward sending move follows. Heck,
buff the damage AND knockback on his dair, as long as the angle changes. As for Boost, there's a difference between "I have to play better" and "I literally can't hit this character unless they mess up." The former is perfectly fine and definitely something I work on. The latter is a reason to quit a game.
Sonic utterly destroys Falcon in 3.Q. With the nerfs it's probably closer to even, but it should still be Sonic favored. The video did show me you have pretty bad DI, and also that neither of you is terribly proficient at meteor cancelling [unless you can't cancel the spring either, which should then also be fixed].
EDIT:
Because there is no penalty from landing from an airdodge in this game, Fox only has (checks PSA) 3 frames of landing lag normally, meaning he has only three frames of lag off a wavedash. This is why rolls/spot dodges are sometimes buffered from a wavedash. Doesn't ake away from your argument, since I think wavedash is better to combo out of shine with (although waveshines are dead because of the hit stun decrease) rather than a movement option.
Airdodges are supposed to have 6 frames of landing lag as far as I know, but I'm surprised [and a little disappointed] that the dev team didn't make a wavedash 10 frames of landing lag, consistent with Melee. Then again, he can't [or definitely couldn't, maybe can now] uthrow uair...
