Brawl Minus 4.0 Changelog Preview!

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Pin Clock

Project Leader
Minus Backroom
0264fa79c6.png


It's been a while since we've seen this version of the logo, hasn't it?

Before I begin, I would like to note that this marks 2 years since the release of MAX 1.01 (Minus 3.01), the first version I directed. It makes me happy to know that I could have the privilege As the days go by, we are getting closer and closer to getting Brawl Minus 4.0 out of beta. While I hope you're all enjoying the beta so far, I feel that Minus 4.0 will be an even greater game, and the definitive Minus experience. We still have a long ways to go before it's finally ready, but we would like to give you a little sneak peak at some of the changes that will be coming!

Global
Physics changes:
Fall speed 1.1 -> 1.05
Fast fall speed 1.1 -> 1.0
Hop v velocity 1.0 -> 1.05
Jump v velocity 1.0 -> 1.05

Dashes can now be buffered

Shield stun:
Calculation accuracy increased. This results in shield stun being 0-3 frames higher depending on the damage percent.

Respawn invincibility:
Reverted to vBrawl
While the beta codeset was good to keep invuln from being abused, it also forced players trying to get back on their feet right back into their opponent's pressure, so we didn't find this change to be a good fit.

Ledge invincibility:
16 -> 20 (vBrawl's is 23)

cBliss added. More details to come at a future date.

Minus artwork for everyone improved. This will be shown off at a future date.

Subspace Emissary
-Fixed a freeze that would occur when two playable characters fought each other
-Made character attributes in Subspace match those they have in VS Mode (EX: 4 Jumps)
-Galleom and Duon's sounds are their own again

Characters
King Dedede

Standing grab
Active frames changed from 4-6 -> 6-8

Diddy Kong
Rocketbarrel Jetpack
-No longer goes into Special Fall, can only be used once per airtime
-End animation changed to reflect this.

Fox
Wavedashing
sliding off ledges is allowed in more subactions, making it behave more proper and less clunky

Up-b
Can now grab edge during charge animation.
Can now grab the edge during the "moving" animation, instead of just the end

Reflector
Knockback reduced
This kills two birds with one stone, reducing offstage kill power and making waveshines more consistant.

Mr. Game and Watch
Up-B
Landing lag reduced when landing perfectly on a platform

Dash Attack
No longer stage spikes opponents grabbing the ledge

Judge
Endlag 8 -> 15
Cooldown 25 -> 20

Fire!
Added a hitbox on the bottom of the parachute that will drag foes down with Mr. Game and Watch.

Ganondorf
Dash Attack
Now gets armor on Frame 7

Gerudo Dragon
Fixed this move having Super Armor

Kirby
Burning
No longer stage spikes opponents

Lucario
Double Team
-Changed grab cancel to grounded attack cancel.
-Air reappear is now cancelable to mach grounded version.
-slowed reapper a bit.(fsm=.9)

dair
-4 frames endlag added before cancel
-6 frames landing lag added

uair
-increased endlag (fsm=.8)

Aura:
Fixed a bug that made Aura not work properly
Stock scaling removed
Aura scaling changed to 1.0 min, 2.0 baseline at 200%, 3,0 at 999%

ULTRATAUNT
Now goes to 999% instead of 300%.

Luigi
Green missile:
- Nerfed first hitbox knockback
- Added 2 secondary hitboxes to the move. Now has 3 total, descending in power. While the first hitbox is really strong, the second and third are incrementally weaker. the second hitbox comes out frame 24, and the last comes out on frame 36. there is only ever 1 hitbox active, the others are removed before the others come out
- Now loses most of his momentum if he connects with a shielding opponent.

Super Jump Punch
-nerfed sourspot hitbox a bit
killing off the top at anything about 60 was a bit much for luigi's damage output and air to ground transition.

Lucas
uAir
Now only freezes foes when you hold down A while using this move.

Mario
Side Taunt
-Animation reverted back to Brawl animation to fix animation issues.
-0.4* Frame Speed Modifier added on Frame 41 until Frame 61 (making the wait between the two Frame points about 50 Frames).
-Metal is activated on Frame 72 (technically Frame 132).
-Can interrupt on Frame 81 (technically Frame 141)
-Total length increased to about 160 Frames from 150 Frames.

Meta Knight
Dimensional Cape:
Slash sweetspot damage 15 -> 13, same direction slash (horizontal knockback) kbg 101 -> 96, bkb 37 -> 40

Ness
PK Flash
No longer goes into Special Fall

Peach
Turnip Pull:
Can no longer be performed out of special tumble states (shield break fall, star ko, etc)
Fixed an RNG related glitch where Peach would not pluck items with the intended frequencies (specifically Peach should now be able to pull green shells)

Pichu
Model slightly touched up, textures vastly improved
Improved his vBrawl Render

Dthrow
BKB 53 -> 57, KBG 22 -> 25, Angle 138 -> 133
Pichu will no longer have a long lasting chaingrab against the entire cast.

Fsmash
Charged self-damage 10 -> 8

Dsmash
Charged self-damage 8 -> 6
Charged shield damage 48 -> 32 (total damage to shields, 56.4 -> 40.4)

Usmash
Charged self-damage 10 -> 6

Pikachu
Skull Bash
Wall jump cancel added

Ivysaur
Alt costume Textures improved

Bullet seed:
Velocity gain increased to adjust for gravity changes

Ice Climbers
Nana
Can now only die when in hitstun

Belay
Solo upwards initial velocity 1.9 -> 2.8

Squall Hammer
Nana snap distance 30 -> (basically) infinite
Initial solo grounded velocity reduction 25%/10% -> 0%
Gravity .1 -> .065
Max downwards velocity 2.8 -> 1.8
Mash window 6 -> 8
Mash boost .6/.8 -> .8/.9
Aerial solo initial vertical velocity boost .6 -> 1.2
Grounded acceleration .09 -> .1
Grounded max horizontal velocity 1.1 -> 1.3
Aerial acceleration .08 -> .09
Aerial max horizontal velocity 1.3 -> 1.5
Synced wall bounce momentum conservation .75 -> .5
Can grab ledge after frame 12/13
tl;dr version: Nana will teleport to Popo at the start of squall hammer similarly to belay and Squall Hammer generally moves slightly faster and is more responsive

Roy
vBrawl render improved

Up Smash
Reworked, is now a single sweeping hit

Sheik
Dash Attack
Added intangibility so to prevent her from being hit while invisible.

Up B
Intangibility restored to prevent her from being hit while invisible. 0.8 FSM added after hitbox terminates to add endlag making it more punishable.

Sonic

dAir
Can now only be cancelled into other moves if it hits
Can be cancelled into Boost on the ground if this move hits.

Toon Link

nAir, bAir
Kill power reduced.

dAir
Jump Cancel moved frame 15->19

Boomerang
Kill power reduced, KB Angle changed to be less vertical

Zelda
Up B
Growth drastically increased, making it into a KO move.

Stages
Stage Expansion Pack Restored

The following stages will be readded:
Mario Bros. 2.x.6
Norfair 3.3
Literally Frozen Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Melee) 3.3
Get the Trophy!
Planet Zebes
Fourside
Big Blue
Hanenbow
Bridge of Eldin
Rainbow Cruise
Distant Planet

Peach's Castle 64

Bowser's Castle alt. restored.

6fdff949f3.PNG
ec4d3fd9c7.PNG

All changes are not final and subject to change.

I hope you liked this sneak peak in the changes to come, and we can't wait until we can show more, but until then, keep on Breaking the Limits!
 
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Thor

Well-Known Member
What does "Nana can only die while not in hitstun" mean? Is that a typo (can only die while in hitstun), or does that mean Nana can no longer be spiked for a KO (and will also now only die off the side once she is out of hitstun, aka she'll take forever to die if Warlock Punched), or what? I'm curious what this change actually does.
 

Pin Clock

Project Leader
Minus Backroom
What does "Nana can only die while not in hitstun" mean? Is that a typo (can only die while in hitstun), or does that mean Nana can no longer be spiked for a KO (and will also now only die off the side once she is out of hitstun, aka she'll take forever to die if Warlock Punched), or what? I'm curious what this change actually does.
Typo. Nana can now only die when in hitstun.
 

Mario3785

Enjoyer of Ironic Memes
Improved vBrawl art? Awesome! No offense, but I'm not too much of a fan of the Minus art. It's not really good for use with texture hacks and the like. Anyways, this update will be awesome, with my favorite new feature being cBliss.
 

Destructo

Failure Incarnate
Hey Pin, I don't want to sound like I'm shamelessly advertising, but I made Roy look very Smash 3-esque by increasing the saturation on almost all textures by 30% and editing the hue of his hair. Is it in the realm of possibility that they could become his new default textures?
Here they are:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/kl0pndh0hqxbmsz/B-+S3Roy.zip
P.S. Those new vBrawl renders look sexy af.
P.S.S. I agree with Mario3785. However, I do like the idea of putting a drawing in the game as a CSP. I tried tracing a drawing of mine in MS Paint once. I realized 3 seconds in that I can't trace with a mouse to save my life.
 

Destructo

Failure Incarnate
Time to critically analyze this.
I like the changes you made to gravity and jump height. Now everyone wins.
CBLISS FINALLY YES
Minus artwork, in my opinion, is a neat idea. Make CSPs specific to Minus in a style that no one has ever done before. However, I don't exactly like how it looked before. I hope these new CSPs will make Minus look much better aesthectically.
I never found Fox's wavedash clunky. I applaud you for making wavedashing easier than in any other game.
DOH I HOPED THEY WOULDN'T NOTICE THE ARMOR ON GERUDO DRAGON
Lucas's uair change is welcome.
Not sure what exactly is going on with Mario's Side Taunt.
Hooray, Pichu was fixed. His feet look really weird on his neutral costume. I like that the textures are getting a facelift.
Ivysaur getting better alt textures is nice.
Roy's Upsmash change is great. I find his current one a bit unwieldy. This should fix almost all of the problems I have with Roy.
I don't really have a comment of any worth about the new stages, since I started with 3.Q. All I can really say is, the more the merrier.
A stage alt? Is that accomplished through ASL, or is it more akin to how Lavaville works, where it's a seperate stage?
The new Pichu render looks very Melee-esque. Gotta love that shiny, oversaturated look.
Roy's render is nothing short of amazing.
That's my two cents.
Also, will we have to wait till April 4th, 4444 for release?
 
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Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Global
Physics changes:
Fall speed 1.1 -> 1.05
Fast fall speed 1.1 -> 1.0
Hop v velocity 1.0 -> 1.05
Jump v velocity 1.0 -> 1.05
Interesting. Would you go ahead and share the 4.0 forms of the following codes? (Mawootad)?

Global Attribute Modification
* C2857658 00000008
* C023D134 2C050BCF
* 41820014 2C050BD0
* 4182000C 2C050BD7
* 40A20020 7C0802A6
* 48000009 3f8ccccd
* 7C6802A6 7C0803A6
* C0030000 FC210032
* 60000000 00000000
Gravity*=1.1
Fallspeed*=1.1
Max Fallspeed*=1.1

Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
* 02B88F48 00030001
* 04B87AA8 3F000000
Current Setting: .50 Hitstun

If fall speed is changed, I'll need to update some of my tweaked content. It would be nice if I could go ahead and get on that.

Also, do these fall speed changes fix Snake's N-Air? The fourth kick doesn't have enough time to come out as-is.

Really hoping to see Snake get some positive attention in 4.0. It's still set to be the final update, yeah?

Other thoughts:
- Are those two Ganondorf changes straight nerfs? :/ Got anything good in store for him?
- You were supposed to nerf Sonic's D-Air, not buff it. o_o
- I've been waiting on Zelda's Farore's Wind Up-B to get that KO power. Sounds good!
- Can you give Pichu its Melee idle animation and fix its idle stance? It looks hunched over.
giphy.gif
 
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Destructo

Failure Incarnate
Alright, time to ask the question on everyone's mind: Will Raichu be in this version?
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
I see you brought a potential A+ diddy down to a lower A diddy in terms of the tier list.

Still going to main him (Zard's not weak, just not my style. Too barebones for my taste).
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Alright, time to ask the question on everyone's mind: Will Raichu be in this version?
You know what they say: Two's company. Three's a... electric rat infestation.

I'd much rather see Mewtwo, or even Young Link, rather than Raichu if we get another fighter in 4.0.

I'm guessing non-veteran newcomers are out of the question, this late in the game.

Future Edit: Cool, I was wrong! Waluigi will be in 4.0f. WAA!
 
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Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Doesn't matter what you call it. What it is is a OHKO at ledge level or below against the majority of the cast, except at very low percents.

At least, that's how Sonic's D-Air was the last time I tested it.

Sonic's D-Air should be just as survivable as any other Meteor Smash, but for some reason it's much stronger, because its victim can't act quickly enough after getting hit by it to save himself.

By itself, it certainly should not be more deadly than Ganondorf's D-Air.
 
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Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
Gonna have to agree with Bent on this one. Regardless of what it is or what it does, it's still basically a 2-hit meteor with spring, which is next to (if not entirely) impossible to survive no matter who you are, so there is no reason to give it that much power while he has the spring as that extra, guaranteed-to-hit finisher. If nothing else, why not nerf dair so the combination of the two results in what a single hit meteor would be?
 

Destructo

Failure Incarnate
You know what they say: Two's company. Three's a... electric rat infestation.

I'd much rather see Mewtwo, or even Young Link, rather than Raichu if we get another fighter in 4.0.

I'm guessing non-veteran newcomers are out of the question, this late in the game.
It was a joke... I guess I'm not gud at teh joking...
I agree with you, though. Mewtwo could have tons of potential as a fighter in Minus. His Down B could break shields as well as stunning, Side B could work like it does in Sm4sh, Teleport would be quickened up and given a hitbox, and Neutral B could just be generally powered up. There are probably tons of BrawlEx Mewtwos to use as a base as well. We would just need to find a good one. Sorta sad that everything I just said is probably impossible.
 

Mawootad

Minus Backroom
I see you brought a potential A+ diddy down to a lower A diddy in terms of the tier list.

Still going to main him (Zard's not weak, just not my style. Too barebones for my taste).
Diddy benefits quite a bit from the current changes. He doesn't randomly get punished for not cancelling up-b and he can once again short hop dair without landing lag.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Can I get these questions answered, please?
Would you go ahead and share the 4.0 forms of the following codes? (Mawootad)?

Global Attribute Modification
* C2857658 00000008
* C023D134 2C050BCF
* 41820014 2C050BD0
* 4182000C 2C050BD7
* 40A20020 7C0802A6
* 48000009 3f8ccccd
* 7C6802A6 7C0803A6
* C0030000 FC210032
* 60000000 00000000
Gravity*=1.1
Fallspeed*=1.1
Max Fallspeed*=1.1

Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
* 02B88F48 00030001
* 04B87AA8 3F000000
Current Setting: .50 Hitstun

If fall speed is changed, I'll need to update some of my tweaked content. It would be nice if I could go ahead and get on that.

Also, do these fall speed changes fix Snake's N-Air? The fourth kick doesn't have enough time to come out as-is.

Really hoping to see Snake get some positive attention in 4.0. It's still set to be the final update, yeah?

Other thoughts:
- Are those two Ganondorf changes straight nerfs? :/ Got anything good in store for him?
- Can you give Pichu its Melee idle animation and fix its idle stance? It looks hunched over.

giphy.gif
 
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Kymaera K1ng

A PMCC player
The majority of these changes are fine, but it does seem like a pretty bare patch at the moment.

The one change I can't see the reason for are the changes to Fox's Shine. Even in 4.0b, Shine knockback could be canceled ridiculously early, and now it got worse?

EDIT: I also agree that Sonic's DAir -> Spring needs to be changed. It's annoying as hell.
 
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Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Just one question left unanswered:
Also, do these fall speed changes fix Snake's N-Air? The fourth kick doesn't have enough time to come out as-is.

Really hoping to see Snake get some positive attention in 4.0.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
1.) Do the fallspeed changes fix Pikachu's dair? In Brawl that was frame-perfect if I remember, so if his gravity isn't fully reverted, it's possible he still can't SH AC dair, and that's a rather useful part of his toolkit I don't want to see removed from Minus forever...

2.) Did Sonic's dair receive an angle change? In 3.Q the angle was set so that it couldn't be meteor-cancelled [unlike every other downward sending move in the entire game, bar Ganondorf's up+b grab]. If this angle isn't be tweaked to be meteor-cancellable, it doesn't fix the problem.
 

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
Diddy benefits quite a bit from the current changes. He doesn't randomly get punished for not cancelling up-b and he can once again short hop dair without landing lag.
if the diddy player didn't cancel his up-b, that's on him. i don't see the issue imo. and i thought Dair already canceled laglessly.
 
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