Brawl Minus 3.5 has arrived!

NEWB

Well-Known Member
I always thought that was hilarious. How did that even become a thing? I know this was really good for falcon it set up for grabs and the knee. That being said, it was pretty stupid. I know realistic things aren't brawls thing but..... Still not even remotely feasible to the naked eye.

Is it still possible to only connect with the first hit?

Also Thor, kien said he tested leaf storm with Mario on fd.
 

Other Aether

Mediator
Please tell me that is from before my changes, heh heh.
It was. With your changes, you have to pretty much be touching them to hit. Personally, I liked it a little ways in front of him, but not that far.

Off-topic: Don't think I've seen you before. Hi :)
 
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Thor

Well-Known Member
I'd like a smallish disjoint back... if went from 18 to 6, maybe move it to 10 or 11?

Also, I REALLY miss 3.3 Norfair (with the three platforms and no hazards) - I would love that back over Lavaville.

I don't THINK random stage select crashes in 3.5, had one error but over Wifi so no idea if that was a Wifi blip or something else (and no problems offline). Again, sorry if I was why the stage expansion was removed, as I had no problems with it in 3.3 after some testing of it and random character select (random character select still can crash my game - was this never fixed or is my Wii being weird? I don't use random except for AI, so now I just fight against Lucario or ROB or Dedede (or someone else if my whim suits it, which is rare) to test stuff out, but I'd like to know if mine is unique or if this never got fixed...)
 
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Lightning

Ikesexual
Last night I was able to play 3.5 just fine. Tonight, it freezes on the strap screen. That is the same problem I had with 3.3. Thanks for your hard work making this mod but I can't play it!
Hey Fe, if your still getting a freeze, try deleting the config.dat file on the root of your SD card. For some reason, when I delete it, it gets rid of the freeze. :)
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Did a bit more testing...

Bugs found:

Ike
- Using only F-Tilt, N.S.M. will not activate until ~150%.
- Using only Aether, N.S.M. will not activate until ~140%.
- Using only N-Air, N.S.M. will not activate until ~81-90%. If you interrupt the animation early by landing during each hit, N.S.M. may not activate until up to ~180%, maybe even higher.
- Using only Quick Draw or only Counter, N.S.M. will never activate.
- Bowser can F-Smash right through Counter. Warlock Punch and Gandouken beat Counter as well (probably intended).
- Regular Falcon Punch beats Counter, but instant Falcon Punch does not. Intended?
- Ike's N.S.M. Flourish is missing sound effects (sword hits SFX and "HRRRAAAHHH..." *BOOM*)
- The hits of Ike's N.S.M. Flourish still do not link into each other well. Certain hits often miss entirely. Aerial Flourish is particularly bad -- heavy opponents can fall right through it, even if the first hit connects.
- Ike's N.S.M. meter resets to 0 when he is K.O.ed, even if it is almost full. Intentional?
- N.S.M. Aether no longer heals Ike, but the healing graphic effect is still present.
- N.S.M. F-Airs ended early by landing occasionally produce no hitbox, but still damage Ike, or vice versa.

1- Fixed now. I accidentally had it not adding enough points.
2- Accidentally left his loop unfinished so the hitboxes had to connect on the exact frame of coming out. Fixed now.
3- NS mode activates at 75% right? Nair does 9 damage right? So you're going to be at 72 on all nair hits. Then you SKIP 75 and go straight up to 81. So that isn't a bug.
4- Whoops. I messed up and accidentally put bit increase as opposed to Float. Fixed now.
5- Bowser has full super armor on fsmash. He can go through anything.
6- Yes. regular Punch is a multihit. Typically multihits hit once during invulnerability frames, and more times after.
7- This is an issue that I forgot how to fix. I'll look into it. I had it fixed at a time...
8- Still thinking on how to solve this one. Ike has been threat number one on my list.
9- Yes it is intentional.
10- This was meant to be temporary. Fixed now. Evidently Ike needs it, so he can now heal regardless of in NS mode or not.
11- Ike gets hurt by swinging his sword, if you aren't timing it right then that's your own problem.

Misc. other observations and thoughts:
- Jigglypuff can no longer heal into negative percent, but Meta Knight still can, with his pummel.
- Zelda's D-Tilt ranged hitbox has been moved much closer to her. You have to be practically right at the edge to land it now, and the opponent is probably going to have ledgegrab invincibility anyway, so why bother? The new trajectory is OK, but moving the hitbox this close has ruined the move IMO. I don't like the new ranged Dash Attack trajectory either, but I'll test Zelda out more before giving up on this version.
- Captain Falcon can use Side Taunt to blow up Snake's land mines. The pull effect is Counterable.
- IMO, Ike's N.S.M. needs more work. Using Counter shouldn't go straight into Flourish; you should have a choice like in 1.01. If B is held, Eruption should just charge more (already at max) and remain shield-cancellable.I'm not sure N.S.M. should be lost upon K.O. anymore, since it's hard for Ike to get without getting in critical damage himself. Lucario's boost is superior, since he gets his from himself taking damage (which is definitely gonna happen), whereas Ike has to earn his boost with sword attacks. Lucario is better all around. If Ike doesn't have a choice whether to enter N.S.M. or not, should he really take so much damage from his own attacks? Ike is forced to become a glass cannon. If he stays the way he is now... Considering that he loses N.S.M. upon being K.O.ed, and that he basically loses Counter and stall-able Eruption while in N.S.M., it's worth considering making Ike not damage himself at all IMO. His power boost system should be as useful and efficient as Lucario's, in a different way.

That's all for now. Devs' comments on this post and my last long post on page 1 would be appreciated.

1- Hmm... I can't see that as too much of an issue because of MK's Up throw exploding but...
2- Zelda was an OP Princess. All of her spikes were way too safe and still powerful enough to KO. Now her combos don't just lead to spike after spike. She actually has to try to get someone out.
3- Is that an issue?
4- We know this. It's just not that easy to find a fair alternative. I doubt people would like counter but stronger. Lucario's boost is superior in some ways, but you never want to have to take damage to become stronger. Lucario can be KO'd by Ike before his moves change. Ike on the otherhand isn't likely to be KO'd if he spaces right until well after NS mode kicks in.
 
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Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
And Thor. Link is heavier than Mario. By a lot. You also have to take into account being hit by the entirety of the attack and not DIing. I do my testing in regards to not DI. You can't rightly balance a game by taking DI into account even if that sounds backwards. I could say the Falcon punch kills at 40 because it does. But, if you DI it might take til 45.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Kienmaru said:
And Thor. Link is heavier than Mario. By a lot. You also have to take into account being hit by the entirety of the attack and not DIing. I do my testing in regards to not DI. You can't rightly balance a game by taking DI into account even if that sounds backwards. I could say the Falcon punch kills at 40 because it does. But, if you DI it might take til 45.

I didn't realize Link was so much heavier. And you made it sound like test character was dying at 60% in real play because of the "Combos I CANNOT DI out of" part earlier on. It appears I just misunderstood you. Sorry.

Still would like to play you at some point.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
Yeah. I'm fixing Ike. Bent pointed out some things and I just found out by looking that I goofed in some of my coding. I kind of need to fix up my reply to him. If you have me added I should be on within an hour.
 

Smilindeth

Well-Known Member
If an update is released before the next big one, please label it something like "3.5.1" or "3.5b" so it doesn't become another "I have 3.3, not the one released yesterday, the barely announced one that came out this morning."

This release seems much more stable, and I'm glad the wifi code is working. The changes seem great so far. Haven't tinkered with Roy much yet, but Pichu is definitely more enjoyable now. Unsure about the Falcon fall speed so far like the others, but probably just a matter of spending more time to get down the change.
 

SunderStorm

Active Member
I'm a Falcon main, and I like his new fall speed. I feel like fastfall stomp is a better tool now. I end up killing myself sometimes but that's probably just because I haven't adapted to the new speed completely yet. I kind of miss the janky uSmash that he had before because I used it as a strong follow up option, but I guess it was pretty silly.

Regarding Falcon Punch, isn't Minus balanced around 1v1? I'd wouldn't mind pawnches being slightly unguaranteed in multiplayer if it meant I could keep my satisfying super long pawnch. I've never had the problem of them being unguaranteed in the first place either. Falcon is pretty much invulnerable to everything but grabs during it and no one ever tries to contest it lest they get caught in it too. The only time where it connects and it fizzles is when I hit it on the very edge of the hitbox and only the last hit applies. In any case, I'd rather have the older version, personally.
 

Ferrous Faucet

Well-Known Member
Hey Fe, if your still getting a freeze, try deleting the config.dat file on the root of your SD card. For some reason, when I delete it, it gets rid of the freeze. :)
Thanks. I did that, changed the Gecko setting to AXNextframe before starting the game, and it works.

Does anybody know any details about this issue? Why does the game freeze for some players and not for everyone? Why does deleting the config.dat fix it?
 

Other Aether

Mediator
Does anybody know any details about this issue? Why does the game freeze for some players and not for everyone? Why does deleting the config.dat fix it?
Well, check to see if there are any other settings that got changed by deleting config.dat. That's where I'd start.
 

NEWB

Well-Known Member
You say you just changed to anextframe? That there was probably the issue. It needs to be set to that.
 

Other Aether

Mediator
You say you just changed to anextframe? That there was probably the issue. It needs to be set to that.
No. config.dat is what automatically sets it to AXNextFrame and so by deleting it that means that he has to set it manually.
 
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Ferrous Faucet

Well-Known Member
Yes what Other Aether said is correct. I didn't check to see which other options changed when I deleted the file, but since the config.dat I had came with the Brawl Minus 3.5 download, that shouldn't be relevant. I mean, it shouldn't explain why the game froze for me and not for everyone. I didn't manually change any settings in Gecko OS between the night I played the mod and the night that the mod froze up. After I deleted config.dat, I changed to AXNextFrame manually just as Other Aether described.
 

arnypalmy

New Member
I believe I found some issues with Pichu. His (her?) head would get bigger during a few moves: upsmash, downsmash, upB, downB, and downtilt were the ones I found. The upsmash in particular was easy to recreate, as Pichu's head got bigger as soon as I started charging; if I didn't charge I don't think the head got bigger. The glitch only happened on downsmash if I charged the move all the way. The others seemed to happen during the endlag of the move.

Not that my opinion really matters, but I thought that Roy's forwardtilt feels really out of place on his character.
 

Ferrous Faucet

Well-Known Member
It's freezing on the strap screen again.

This time I started the Wii, set Gecko to AXNextFrame and chose to save config (in Gecko OS). Then Brawl Minus froze on the strap screen when I started. So I shut off the Wii, put the SD card into my PC and deleted config.dat. Then put SD card back into Wii, restarted Gecko OS and set to AXNextFrame (didn't save config this time) and it froze on strap screen again.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
I think Strap freezes are here to stay. Not really, but we haven't found the cause yet. It's the only freezes I've had to deal with though so I can't really complain.
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
It can't really be half the time. Have you had any freezes outside of strap ones?
 

NEWB

Well-Known Member
You use homebrew gecko method right? 2gig sd card? Maybe you should should get a 4gig and use pm or minima launcher.
 

Ferrous Faucet

Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure I've tried to load up this mod a total of six times and it only worked twice.

I haven't tried using the PM launcher.
 

Sammi-husky

Scientist #1
Minus Backroom
Do me a favor Ferrous Faucet, try deleting the strap screen from your SD card. It can be found in menu/strap. If that doesn't work, try deleting the whole info2 folder. The latter of which will get rid of the new HUD as well as make pichu and Roy's name in battle "Crazy Hand"

Lemme know if either of these work
 

Ferrous Faucet

Well-Known Member
I tried deleting the strap screen from my SD in the 3.3 version and it reverted to vBrawl's strap screen, but then it froze on the second screen that says Online interactions are not rated by the ESRB.

I just deleted the strap menu in 3.5 and it froze on the first strap screen.

And I just deleted the info2 folder and it still froze on the first strap screen.

If the PM Launcher is required to play, it should be included in the download or at least a link to it so it's easy for new players to find.
 
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