Other Aether
Mediator
It is possible to make a super-long grapple. Homing, I have no idea...
Samus
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justadood
Just a dood with ideas
i think the forward smash being cancellable into grabs, missiles, or charged shots would really, REALLY help for mixups... also, tilting to angle would make it have an amazing feature to angle shots and grabs!! 
also, my idea for the bombs being timer-charge based would be awesome coupled with that one about being bigger/stronger... also, fire/ice taunt switch for missiles..? c'mon, that's the one thing PM missed out on with alt between fire/ice... and as far as spin attack goes, it should be a continuation of BUp or BDown in midair... and the longer grapple idea would be cool, but i still would want a shorter grapple as an option, maybe even a little shorter than it is now... make it so holding Z uses the longer grapple, and i'd totally be down... and cou
also, my idea for the bombs being timer-charge based would be awesome coupled with that one about being bigger/stronger... also, fire/ice taunt switch for missiles..? c'mon, that's the one thing PM missed out on with alt between fire/ice... and as far as spin attack goes, it should be a continuation of BUp or BDown in midair... and the longer grapple idea would be cool, but i still would want a shorter grapple as an option, maybe even a little shorter than it is now... make it so holding Z uses the longer grapple, and i'd totally be down... and cou
NEWB
Well-Known Member
Honestly, just revert her to 2.6. She was absolutely fantastic then. I mean, keep the new throws, dtilt, blaster, upsmash since it's apparently better, and the better homing missiles while retainingt the way they hit in 2.6, but restore her old moves and physics. She was fine before they tried implementing in game things.
I can't even begin to weigh in on those suggestions. That's not even samus anymore....
I can't even begin to weigh in on those suggestions. That's not even samus anymore....
Thor
Well-Known Member
I still want big bombs explosion (Down+b), just make them explode a little faster so the animation looks consistent (as I've said elsewhere I believe?). I don't know much about 2.X.6 Samus, and I picked her up after that point because she felt and looked really different (And cool) compared to vBrawl Samus when I read changelogs.
But apparently 2.X.6 Samus had negative degenerate things about her, which is why we have all these changes, right?
But apparently 2.X.6 Samus had negative degenerate things about her, which is why we have all these changes, right?
Other Aether
Mediator
Make it so that Samus can hold side-b to charge her missiles, and if they get fully charged then they're ice missiles.
As for new animations, it would be cool if uAir was an extremely quick and devastating over-head arc of explosions, much like ROB's Project: M uAir, linking and dealing ~20 damage.
Other Aether
Mediator
Oh yeah. It wouldn't, my bad...
justadood
Just a dood with ideas
well i suggested taunt changing the missiles..? why not? we don't have an ultra taunt for her right now, so it's not like it'd be "cheap" ...and what about my other suggestions?.. side smash being able to connect into shooting either the missiles, charged beam, or grapple..? that way if you use a fsmash first and tilt it, you can angle the rockets, charged beam, or grapple, which'd add utility to her attacks... maybe make this method take a little longer for these moves... also, i think tapping grab should release a SLIGHTLY shorter grapple, and holding should release a slightly longer one, with endlag to the grab appropriate to the length of the grapple beam... ... ...any of these ideas interesting??
...and what about my other suggestions?.. side smash being able to connect into shooting either the missiles, charged beam, or grapple..? that way if you use a fsmash first and tilt it, you can angle the rockets, charged beam, or grapple, which'd add utility to her attacks... maybe make this method take a little longer for these moves... also, i think tapping grab should release a SLIGHTLY shorter grapple, and holding should release a slightly longer one, with endlag to the grab appropriate to the length of the grapple beam... ... ...any of these ideas interesting??
Thor
Well-Known Member
Actually, Samus does have an ultra-taunt - it turns her into ZSS or else causes her to do her flip that she does when getting a smash ball - at the very least, it would have to be a different taunt input - also, missiles changing via taunt is a PM thing, so some think we're just ripping them off or whatever.
Samus honestly felt great to me in 3.3, but I never played with her in 2.X.6. I also know that people who said she was really bad still got combo'd kind of hard by me, upwards of 70 or 80% off a grab (uthrow is so ridiculously good) - if she just had a safer grab and was 3.3, either faster or longer duration grab-box, she'd feel fantastic, at least to me.
Also, homing grapple was amazing in Melee, at least to me.
Samus honestly felt great to me in 3.3, but I never played with her in 2.X.6. I also know that people who said she was really bad still got combo'd kind of hard by me, upwards of 70 or 80% off a grab (uthrow is so ridiculously good) - if she just had a safer grab and was 3.3, either faster or longer duration grab-box, she'd feel fantastic, at least to me.
Also, homing grapple was amazing in Melee, at least to me.
Changing her missiles from taunt is impossible for the same reason that changing toon links arrows from a taunt is impossible. The ONLY and i mean ONLY people that have done it is PM. And from reverse engineering their samus i can tell you that i have no idea how they did it.
Thor
Well-Known Member
3.5 physics feel like a strict down-grade to me from 3.3 - and are people sure jumping ability was compensated? I didn't try too much, but I couldn't seem to ledge-drop-> jump -> missile -> ledge-regrab at all...
Also, what does the air friction decrease do to Samus's screw attack?
Also, what does the air friction decrease do to Samus's screw attack?
justadood
Just a dood with ideas
when samus is at the height of her screw attack, she seems to spin in place, without moving, for a half second or so... you can move to the side about the same distance as the former f-air screw attack.
and if the missile thing can't be taunt changed, could my side smash suggestion still work?.. or the grapple idea?..
and what about my suggestion to make the bigger bombs more powerful, but need to charge over time, like wario's waft or rob's laser, and get back the smaller bombs for "zero-charge" bombs, so you can actually "spam" them more, without crowding the stage with a bunch of smart-bomb tier explosives..??
Other Aether
Mediator
Ask them? Or is there a lot of competition between developers?
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Lightning
Ikesexual
Hm. Here's a thought:
I have seen a few PSAs that use taunts to change movesets. Not an entire change, but like a move or two.
For example, look at jrush64's Lightning PSA. She has 3 neutral Bs: healing, fire and ice, and a metal spinning blade. These are all activated by one of her taunts. You just pick the one you want.
So, wouldn't it be possible to do what he did? I don't know specifically how it's done, but I'm sure it's possible.
How I think it could be done:
Create a hit box that is attached to a taunt. Make it controlled or activated by the neutral B. There are a few PSAs on the vault that achieve this, so it wouldn't be hard to look at there coding and see how it's done. It would be the exact same hit box as the original B because we want them to be the same. Then, just add an elemental gfx and flag and it's done..
Of course, it sounds simple in writing.
Other Aether
Mediator
Taunts can change movesets by setting bits. Then the move that is changed can have an "if bit is set, use move2's hitboxes, else use move1's hitboxes". However, I have no idea how someone would change a projectile, since they're different.
justadood
Just a dood with ideas
well i doubt they wouldn't want to help spread anything they find out... i mean, it's not like they invented metroid, so the idea wasn't some "no-one's-thought-of-this-before" thing.. everyone had an idea like this about samus's fire moves changing to ice in the back of their mind, and the guys on the PM dev team worked hard to find out how to do it, but it's not like they should be the only people allowed to use it just because they got it to WORK first.. especially since it's not some original idea xP
It's not that they figured something new out to do it, otherwise i would have seen it inside her articles or her PSA. It's not in the GCT either as i have a text file of it. Movesets are easily coded to do said things, however articles are not. Articles cannot even be seen by PSA. Only by Dantarion's OpenSA and tabuu. Neither of which can edit anything, just view.
Normally viewing is enough to add new things, code them, edit them etc etc with a hex editor or even PSA after finding the command offsets for the subroutines. However bit's don't work for articles, the bit's set in normal moves and PSA script are not accessible by the article's scripts. I could probably spend a few days looking at how they did it and figure it out, however the reward for that kind of intensive work just isn't enough to warrant it. We wouldn't be able to / want to make use of this information for very many things.
My few ideas for what they could have done is add a new action to the missile's articles, then depending on if a bit was set in the NORMAL psa script, her side b would call the missile article and then immediately use a command that changes the action of the missile's script to one that points to added subactions for her missile. This is only a guess but it in theory would work, however i can still be totally wrong.
Adding these actions and subactions are really, really, REALLY a pain in the ass. You have to do it all by hex. Which, in case people don't know what that looks like, it looks like this
This is what i stare at for hours on end trying to find repeating structures in binary data for brawl's files. Not for movesets, but for other things like the SSE research that i do. Manually adding in an action or subaction to a PSA is hard as balls, adding in a subaction or action to articles is even worse.
Normally viewing is enough to add new things, code them, edit them etc etc with a hex editor or even PSA after finding the command offsets for the subroutines. However bit's don't work for articles, the bit's set in normal moves and PSA script are not accessible by the article's scripts. I could probably spend a few days looking at how they did it and figure it out, however the reward for that kind of intensive work just isn't enough to warrant it. We wouldn't be able to / want to make use of this information for very many things.
My few ideas for what they could have done is add a new action to the missile's articles, then depending on if a bit was set in the NORMAL psa script, her side b would call the missile article and then immediately use a command that changes the action of the missile's script to one that points to added subactions for her missile. This is only a guess but it in theory would work, however i can still be totally wrong.
Adding these actions and subactions are really, really, REALLY a pain in the ass. You have to do it all by hex. Which, in case people don't know what that looks like, it looks like this
This is what i stare at for hours on end trying to find repeating structures in binary data for brawl's files. Not for movesets, but for other things like the SSE research that i do. Manually adding in an action or subaction to a PSA is hard as balls, adding in a subaction or action to articles is even worse.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
I don't see what's so poor about her. I don't like the heaviness either, but it didn't take long to relearn her. Hell, I even found some mean combos with her.
The only thing I've had an issue with that I found (and is getting fixed) is her Nair sour spot boxes are miserably smaller than her sweet spot boxes, and there is no hit box on her foot at all on her sour spot boxes. You can literally touch ROB's chest with her foot while her sour spot is active without hitting him, it's so bad.
The only thing I've had an issue with that I found (and is getting fixed) is her Nair sour spot boxes are miserably smaller than her sweet spot boxes, and there is no hit box on her foot at all on her sour spot boxes. You can literally touch ROB's chest with her foot while her sour spot is active without hitting him, it's so bad.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Her fall speed was better off where it was. I will stand by this until I play a good Samus or see really good footage. And she was always heavy, she just falls faster. Literally the only good thing I've found about her new fall speed is her ability to survive stuff like Fox usmash at higher percents - her jumping wasn't compensated, or else not compensated enough [ledge-drop -> jump -> missile -> regrab ledge is no longer a thing] (her bomb jump was compensated, I can see that) and she feels much less safe to recover with (definitely easier to gimp, both recovering with her and playing against her).
Her old fallspeed was just fine - anyone who said her combos were bad before never played my 3.3 Samus - I zero-death's a few people with her, one time not even ending with a charge shot (though she was reliant on charge-shot to get real zero-deaths - I don't know if that's changed in the new one, because I can't play her properly and miss her old form way too much).
This is also literally the only time I've ever been THIS upset with a change, ever.
I don't need 2.x.6. I don't even necessarily need 3.3 with her dtilt and uthrow buffs - heck, I'd take 2% per dtilt and only 18% while still self-damaging 10% on uthrow if I got her old fallspeed back. Everything that was fun about playing Samus, especially in contrast and compared to my other characters (Falco for sure, to a lesser extent, Link, MK, and some others) is just gone for me.
If it's not ever going to be changed back, ok, just tell me so I can stop dreaming I might enjoy playing Samus again, and I'll just play a lot more Melee or P:M so I can enjoy her there (or vBrawl, as bad as she is there).
Her old fallspeed was just fine - anyone who said her combos were bad before never played my 3.3 Samus - I zero-death's a few people with her, one time not even ending with a charge shot (though she was reliant on charge-shot to get real zero-deaths - I don't know if that's changed in the new one, because I can't play her properly and miss her old form way too much).
This is also literally the only time I've ever been THIS upset with a change, ever.
I don't need 2.x.6. I don't even necessarily need 3.3 with her dtilt and uthrow buffs - heck, I'd take 2% per dtilt and only 18% while still self-damaging 10% on uthrow if I got her old fallspeed back. Everything that was fun about playing Samus, especially in contrast and compared to my other characters (Falco for sure, to a lesser extent, Link, MK, and some others) is just gone for me.
If it's not ever going to be changed back, ok, just tell me so I can stop dreaming I might enjoy playing Samus again, and I'll just play a lot more Melee or P:M so I can enjoy her there (or vBrawl, as bad as she is there).
NEWB
Well-Known Member
Samus is weird. She is the only other character that gets drastic reworks in her Movesets like olimar, only everyone can't ever be happy about samus. When my bro gets off the computer, I'll post samus 2.6 here. That set is just amazing. I could say all those things Thor said about 3.3 for 2.6. 3.3 crippled samus for me. While I actually think her weight is an improvement, I stand by my claim that 2.6 is the best.