Let's talk about water

[Mawootad]

Hey everyone, we're currently considering changing how water works in B-. From a competitive perspective we think that it's quite obvious that water is a pretty poor mechanic, as the risk posed while swimming is basically non-existent compared to being over the void. From a more casual perspective though, we're less clear on whether water is fine or not. From our limited sample we got the idea that most casual groups found water kind of boring and slow, but one group liked the current water mechanics a lot. So we'd like to ask the community what you think about water stages; what you like and dislike and if there are any particular stages that you do or don't want different water on (we can make any changes stage specific).

 

[Thor]

Water is still dangerous vs Falco.

But that's about the only one I can think of where it's dangerous regardless...

I find it amusing and like it, but not on stages I'd like to play tournament matches on [or whatever].

 

[NEWB]

We should probably have a complete list of stages with water here. Off the top of my head:

Delfino: don't have a problem with water here since it doesn't stay for long. Delfino also has the possibility to be remade into a better tourney legal stage anyway.

Japes: given how water works, water is meant to trap people in it and carry them away. Smash 3ds turned water into wind here. If you want change how water works so that it doesn't trap people in it, you may want to change water into wind here so the water keeps its function on this stage, you know, if it's possible to have different kinds of water on different stages.

Summit: water traps you, you have almost no time to escape before getting eaten by a fish. This stage can be pretty fun with this hazard here.

Distant planet: water actually DOES function as wind here. It just pushes you off the stage. This stage does seem to likely to change though as minus did have its own distant planet.

Can't think of any others. It seems that certain stages depend on water to work how it does for the stage hazards to work.

 

[NEWB]

To actually answer the question, I don't mind how water works currently. If the mechanics are changed, I would like to see more water stages in minus with this new water stuff.

 

[Mawootad]

The current minus stages with water are summit, delphino, pirate ship, and japes. Summit has no real issues with water since it kills you anyway. Delphino would probably be more competitive if you could actually die in water outside of last minute dunks. Japes had issues where certain fighters can stall by repeatedly jumping and using up-b in the opposite direction of the current. Pirate ship is the most affected by water mechanics as there's really nothing in place to make people get out of the water other than the tornado that shows up maybe once or twice per game. The water mechanics we were considering would cause consecutive water landings to eventually result in immediate drowning, which would mostly improve those issues, but also risks changing the feel of water stages. We probably will not be adding additional water stages to b-, whether or not we change the mechanics.

 

[Tybis]

Distant planet: water actually DOES function as wind here. It just pushes you off the stage. This stage does seem to likely to change though as minus did have its own distant planet.

That water basically is just acting as wind yeah. It's not swimmable though, which is the type that's being experimented with.

 

[NEWB]

Making people instantly drown when they enter the water too many times? That sounds fair, especially to deal with that jungle japes issue.

 

[Kien]

I personally enjoy water fights. Trying my best to make my opponent sleep with the fishes, we sometimes carry a fight over into the water intentionally on pirate ship, until both of us are near drowned. It's great fun and wouldn't be possible if water made you drown after a set number of entries. If we aren't making water stages competitive (which Minus really doesn't need MORE competitive levels) then I vote we leave them alone.

 

[Neville]

Is this what's holding up the update? I think a certain amount of diving into the water until you drown is a good idea at any rate.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I think it should be left alone. There is no real problem with water as is, since there are already plenty of legal stages. Honestly, leave the casual stages alone for those of us that play casually.

 

[Kien]

Old video, but this kind of slow paced action is why I like water.

 

[Neville]

I don't like water stalling necessarily but I honestly don't care. The only stage I like with water on it is Delphino, and it moves around so I don't really care.

 

[Pin Clock]

Is this what's holding up the update? I think a certain amount of diving into the water until you drown is a good idea at any rate.

The update is not being delayed by a single thing, I assure you.

 

[NEWB]

He means it's being delayed by everything as a whole!

 

[Thor]

Is this what's holding up the update? I think a certain amount of diving into the water until you drown is a good idea at any rate.

Are we balanced Brawl now? I think this is something they did to water stalling if memory serves.

 

[Neville]

Are we balanced Brawl now? I think this is something they did to water stalling if memory serves.

Or you could look at my second post to the thread...

 

[justadood]

what if characters had more control in water? like what if you could actually choose to swim horizontally underwater, or even downward... maybe even attack? like what if some fighting could take place under water, and instead of just drowning after your swim time runs out, you began to take heavier and heavier damage? if that mechanic was possible, we could even make an entire water temple stage where the water rises and falls and the characters fight each other to keep the other underwater... maybe some characters, especially squirtle, could breathe underwater a lot longer than others?.. i know a lot of the ideas i throw out are quick to be shut down, but please think about it before telling me to just shut up T-T

 

[Pin Clock]

If I may interrupt

This thread has the best title of any thread on the forums

 

[Mawootad]

It's probably possible to do massive changes to the water system like having a full range of motion and underwater attacks, but unfortunately it would be tremendously hard, hard enough that it would only make sense if we also wanted to add several water stages and make it a core gameplay feature. Since water changes how brawl plays so radically though I don't think that will ever come except possible as someone's side project or something we get to use from someone else that decided to do so.

 

[justadood]

i guess i understand... but what if we were able to make a new fall animation for water and just use the standard air attacks and make the water slow animations like that by maybe 1/4 or 1/3 or so... and yeah a few stages could use more water... maybe even eldin bridge it would actually be pretty cool... but the main reason i asked was because as is, water seems like a really annoying stage hazard that leaves you in a more helpless state than hanging from a ledge

 

[justadood]

why are there no responses?.. did I say something that dumb?

 

[Neville]

The water mechanics will only affect the competitive players at Delphino. It should be kept the same.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

competitive players at Delphino

Dat oxymoron tho

 

[NEWB]

Apparently you can have different types of water as evidenced above so that might not be a problem. You do have a point though.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

why are there no responses?.. did I say something that dumb?

Actually, while that would be AWESOME to see happen, it would he really hard and wouldn't effect really anyone since no one goes to Delphino.