Let's talk about water

[Thor]

Actually, while that would be AWESOME to see happen, it would he really hard and wouldn't effect really anyone since no one goes to Delphino.

I take people to Delfino rather frequently, thank you. It's just I don't as much as I should since I think Kongo Jungle 64 is a better Sheik stage in Smash 4 [Delfino would be my second pick I think]. It also gets banned a lot when people play me so yeah.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

I take people to Delfino rather frequently, thank you. It's just I don't as much as I should since I think Kongo Jungle 64 is a better Sheik stage in Smash 4 [Delfino would be my second pick I think]. It also gets banned a lot when people play me so yeah.

Well, whenever I play, it's only SV or FD. Pretty much.

 

[justadood]

and actually one of my friends only picks delfino, and we do a winners pick rotation, so it comes up every once in a blue moon... but the idea is that water is barely in brawl and useless when it is, so why not make it more useful, and then add it to more appropriate stages afterwads

 

[Greatest_Aether]

It would be cool to see more Minus water stages...
Hell, we could make a stage entirely of water with only like one small platform.

 

[justadood]

i.e. m,y idea above about a water temple stage?.. like, make it over green hill zone or something, and make it so hitting the button, which would show up in different spots would trigger the water rising, or if you can't move water that way, then make it move the stage and background and blast zones down together instead... and it would generate different platforms above and under water every time you press it... maybe we could make it so you can walk if there's ground under water, and it just make you walk slower...?

 

[justadood]

remember when i said an idea and you guys left the room?

 

[Mawootad]

Is a cool idea but just too difficult to make work.

 

[Thor]

Is a cool idea but just too difficult to make work.

Is it literally not workable, or just something that would take a large amount of effort for a single stage that people may not like?

I'm totally cool with either answer, but I'm curious if this literally can't ever happen (we just can't/don't know how to code this), or just won't happen because the dev team has a million other things to do that also either won't take nearly as much time or have a substantially bigger payoff.

 

[Mawootad]

Both. First we'd have to figure out how to change water to function like air with different stats (may or may not be very hard), then we'd need to design a brand new stage with large water areas and test it for functionality (may be very difficult, not sure), and then customize how each fighter behaves on water (would take forever). So it would take a lot of time for maybe one stage and on top of that we're not totally sure how to do some stuff.

 

[Glyph]

Considering as long as this next version has already taken, there's way bigger fish to fry than changing water mechanics. It'd be cool, but its not something the BRoom should spend any time on. Maybe see if there's someone third party that would attempt it?

 

[Mawootad]

Yeah, if anyone is interested in trying I'd be happy to share my research but otherwise we probably won't do anything other than include an optional (default off) code at most.

 

[justadood]

well let me know if my idea sounds like it'd be a functional placeholder:

--can we just make it so when in water it just uses all the motions from being in the air, but in slow motion? --including falling downward, but make it so you can't use B moves, and make it so you HOLD jump to swim upward

just as placeholders for now to test functionality without having to make new animations for multiple characters

 

[Mawootad]

That's not actually trivial to do. We'd need to figure out what causes fighters to enter swim state from other actions and totally decode the swim asm and psa coding related to swimming. The physics would probably be the biggest issue.

 

[justadood]

i guess it would probably take a long time just to get there then.. i was hoping that the main issue was in the individual fighters not having a swim animation to use, so i thought if we didn't need to animate anything new on all the 40-something characters, it would be easy enough xP

 

[Mariosonicman1]

honestly what bugs me slightly is that there is no stage where the water stays constant besides jungle japes, every stage that does have water leaves eventually or just kills you fast. kinda makes me wish great bay from melee could appear in to have a map with the water in it that wont go away.

 

[Thor]

That's not actually trivial to do. We'd need to figure out what causes fighters to enter swim state from other actions and totally decode the swim asm and psa coding related to swimming. The physics would probably be the biggest issue.

Call me crazy, but could you make water act like the wind mode on PS2 [with the windmills transformation and the conveyors and stuff]? Is there some way you could just swap those physics in?

I'd 100% guess no, but if it works, it's a fast, easy way to sort of do what justadood suggested. It'd be slowing fall and you can easily jump out of it, while it'd make the water different from as it is now. I mean, really it's only the slow-moving-vertically part, but it'd be something at least.

 

[justadood]

i feel like the idea is really not very compatible though since it's two different games on two totally different systems plus they already have updrafts in SSE and in Pokemon Stadium and Pirate Ship. so if that effect was made to happen while under water, and they added a little slow motion effect (not sure how that effect works) and made holding jump activate swim animations instead, that might be enough... ...