Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

[666DAMAGE]

I don't know which version of Brawl Waluigi was originally built for, but Project Ganondorf was built specifically for Project M. That said, I'm betting it's certainly possible to port it to Minus, but its creator (BronzeGreekGod) is too busy to help with that (without any "incentive", at least).

Waluigi was built for PM and a Brawl version came later. The creator had no intention of Waluigi being in Brawl Minus, we (not me, the guys who do the real work like ASF1nk/Sammi) took his finished work and adapted it.

That's what we do for every character though, I'm just about 100% sure nobody on Brawl's team made anything with Minus in mind so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Dusk]

I was playing a bit of sonic and I noticed that knuckles sonic doesn't have knuckles shoes would be a cool addition. Also if any other model got accessories like shadow getting fire ring from sa2b would be awesome, or anything else that is similar to the characters that he is portraying.

 

[player_03]

If Ivysaur is hanging from a ledge with a vertical wall (like on WarioWare or Hyrule Castle) and you press the control stick away from the ledge, Ivysaur will immediately walljump. This turns Ivysaur around, preventing you from using options like fair or Giga Drain.

I know you can also press the control stick down, but then you risk fastfalling.

 

[Bent 00]

Spoiler: Added to PENDING

PENDING

General

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Please add the "All-Star Versus Mode" codes from Project M, which allow you to fight with multiple different characters in succession, instead of only one. [Mimsy]
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Please add the Stamina Mode codes from Project M, including all five Types that alter knockback, blast zones, and the camera. These would be a great fit for Minus. [Bent 00]
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Fighter

Ivysaur:

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If Ivysaur is hanging from a ledge with a vertical wall below it (like the ones on WarioWare, Inc. and Hyrule Castle), and you press the Control Stick away from the ledge, Ivysaur will immediately Wall Jump. This turns Ivysaur around, preventing you from using options like Forward-Air or Giga Drain. You can press the Control Stick down, but then you risk Fast-Falling. Is there a solution for this? [player_03]
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Sonic:

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Please add visual elements to Sonic's alternate outfits that are based on other characters from his series, which link the costumes more closely to the characters they are intended to reference. For example, you could add the referenced character's shoes, or an accessory he used. [Dusk]
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Dusk: I wouldn't get your hopes up for that last one, since the character portraits are already finished... Good idea though.

 

[Pin Clock]

We will not be taking requests for Gameplay Modes.

Sunglasses taunt: This would be a pain to get permissions for from multiple sources and all in all not worth the trouble
Dash Attack: DK's dash attack is already good and it'd be too much of a balance adjustment on an already solidly balanced character for the final release.
Secret Taunt input: We will not be changing secret taunt inputs, and the windows for them on both Falcon and Lucario are as long as they can get.
SideB sweetspot angle change: The meteor has plenty of function even on stage and is wonderful as a kill move offstage, and has no reason to change.
Shortening: We can probably make it like Fox's.
Sunglasses taunt: See Diddy's sunglasses taunt
Future Sight: 90 degrees is probably the most consistently useful angle there is
Lasers: Cancelling seems to be the preferrable option must we buff it
uTaunt: Sonic's annoying enough
zAir: It's technically already visible, it's the tiny sphere of light at the end
dAir: You probably shouldn't just be randomly dAiring people's shields like that. Plan carefully and try not to get punished.

 

[player_03]

Make Mr. Game & Watch's Dash Attack Cancel easier to do, or replace it with something else. [player_03]

Wait a minute, that isn't quite right. It's really easy to cancel G&W's dash attack: just press A at any point in the second half of the move. I was asking about the sliding dash attack cancel, which requires frame-perfect timing.

 

[ESC Artiste]

Okay, so this is 'maybe, not maybe' a continuation of a thread I just posted in the Roy character Forum (it's a neat read). There's something I am very confused about for Roy's aerials-particularly his F-Air, Aerial F-Tilt, and N-Air. So to make this quicker, I'll copy/paste what I said in that thread with some minor adjustments to comply with this thread's formatting.

F-Air: Second hit needs to be as strong current N-Air's second hit.
The second hit of F-Air is quite difficult to pull of because of the angle it needs to hit, and in its current state, it cannot KO as early as it should. Roy's playstyle revolves around being Captain Falcon levels of aggressive, and thus his F-Air needs to compliment that style-hitting hard and fast. Right now, it's his Neutral Air that does this (this aerial is stupidly powerful), which makes his F-Air more of a spacing tool-a completely different playstyle that condones more towards Marth. Thus Roy's second hit F-Air needs to have his current N-Air's KGB. This could also help Roy in giving him more options with the RoyDash tech combos (see link below).

Aerial F-Tilt/C-Stick F-Air: Remove the automatic jump, and let it be just the first hit of the F-Air.
The Aerial (C-Stick) F-Tilt is very annoying, as its automatic jump comes out too quick to follow up with something like a N-Air or D-Air. Instead Roy becomes wide open for your opponent to take advantage of the situation. It also doesn't help that it executes at various points when I don't want it to use it, especially when my fingers are moving so quickly in the middle of a match. To fix this, make it a 'C-Stick Only' move to avoid the unintentional Joystick inputs. I would also request taking out the jump, and make the Aerial F-Tilt just have the second hit cancelled completely. This could allow a follow-up into another Aerial, thus allowing Roy have more options in taking an aggressive approach. Hell, Roy could have a more aggressive version of the Ken Combo or something of the like.

N-Air: Less KGB on second hit, keep KGB on first hit.
As I said before, Roy's N-Air is stupidly powerful. Like, horizontal-KO-at-50-percent-on-stage powerful. That's mainly due to the second hit of his N-air. It's great at KO-ing, but that's all it can do. Even when executed as a Quick Strike (see link below), it won't allow for proper follow-ups. It also doesn't help that the N-Air has next to no vertical hitbox (similar to Marth's N-Air) making it very situational. So, to increase Roy's N-Air combo potential, lessen the KGB of the N-Air's second hit, but keep the current KGB of it's first hit.

Original thread: http://forums.brawlminus.net/threads/roy-4-0bc-thread.1293/

 

[ESC Artiste]

Roy's side special shouldn't deminish and should be fully interruptible like marths nutral special.

I agree with Roy's Aerial Side-B needing to be interruptable, as it creates balance and doesn't make his RoyDash obscenely broken. Though just to ask, what do you mean by "Roy's Aerial Side-B shouldn't diminish"?

 

[Bent 00]

Wait a minute, that isn't quite right. It's really easy to cancel G&W's dash attack: just press A at any point in the second half of the move. I was asking about the sliding dash attack cancel, which requires frame-perfect timing.

Is this better?

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Make Mr. Game & Watch's Sliding Dash Attack Cancel easier to do, or replace it with something else. [player_03]
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If not, post exactly how you want your Request to be worded.

ESC Artiste's Requests have been added to PENDING.

 

[ESC Artiste]

One more thing to add, then I'm off to bed. (4am here. Why can't I go to sleep on nights like these...)

Ground F-Tilt: Moderate increase to projectile range (and possibly speed) to be able to stand against heavy projectile users.
Roy's F-Tilt on the ground is pretty good in terms of damage and multiple hitboxes. The problem is that he loses at least 75% or more against heavy projectile users like Samus, Toon Link, and Ness/Lucas (Link and Snake aren't too much of a hassle). Otherwise he has to resort to spacing with his other moves-all of which are specifically tailored to aggressive play. I could suggest maybe some increase in speed-though if the range was increased enough, along with the projectile already having multiple hitboxes,, it might not need it in the long run. Just increase the range of the projectile enough to make Roy decrease his lose rate to around 55-60% so it's not near one-sided towards the heavy projectile users-with a maybe in buffing the projectile's speed-and his F-Tilt would then be fine.

Addendum to Bent 00: For the polls, can I request that you add in the link to the post about the RoyDash and its Techs so that nobody gets confused when I say things in the comment such as "Quick Strike" and the like?

 

[Bent 00]

^ Added.

Addendum to Bent 00: For the polls, can I request that you add in the link to the post about the RoyDash and its Techs so that nobody gets confused when I say things in the comment such as "Quick Strike" and the like?

I don't generally add a POLL unless it's obviously going to be a controversial Request, or the Requester asks me to. Do you want me to post POLLs for any of those four Roy Requests? I can post generic "For/Against/Neutral" POLLs, or you can write up some specific questions and options. Sounds like you know more about Roy than I do. Ike is the only Fire Emblem fighter I've played as much.

Added those links to the 4.0BC Roy thread as you asked.

Thanks for typing your Requests in such an organized, clear format.

 

[ESC Artiste]

^ Added.

I don't generally add a POLL unless it's obviously going to be a controversial Request, or the Requester asks me to. Do you want me to post POLLs for any of those four Roy Requests? I can post generic "For/Against/Neutral" POLLs, or you can write up some specific questions and options. Sounds like you know more about Roy than I do.

Oh. If that's the case, please don't make polls for these. If anything, I just wanted to be able to have a reference for the suggestions under my requests in Pending in case people got confused by the '(see link below)' in my request's "Why" sections. Other than that, I'm fine with it being as it is.

 

[Dusk]

Bent 00 he's referring to this one btw Idk if a visual representation would help explain it better but pretty much gnw has a dash attack slide thing that is cancelled frame perfectly. It's not easy to pull off unless practiced consistently.

 

[player_03]

Is this better?

Yep.

 

[Gold_TSG]

All this time away, and nobody remembers The Dorf Train. I am disappoint.

 

[Neville]

uTaunt: Sonic's annoying enough.

C'mon man break the limits on how annoying Sonic can be.

 

[Bent 00]

CHANGELOG

Spoiler: MOVED TO UNDER CONSIDERATION

UNDER CONSIDERATION

Fighter

Falco:

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Make Shortening simpler (similar to slow Fox Illusion) and easier to do consistently online, perhaps by moving the input to Shield or Grab. This would allow Falco players to actually use an underrated part of Falco's kit. [Ludacario]
Pin Clock: "We can probably make it like Fox's."
---

Wolf:

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Please allow Wolf's Blaster to Cancel, perhaps into Jump and Air Dodge, or make it Auto Cancel. [Kymaera K1ng]
Pin Clock: "Cancelling seems to be the preferable option, must we Buff it."
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Spoiler: LEFT IN PENDING

PENDING

Fighter

Wolf:

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Make Wolf's Blaster fire three lasers again. If they were too strong before, making them do 2% or 3% each (with no paralyze effect) would be fair. [Thor]
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Spoiler: MOVED TO REJECTED

REJECTED

General

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Please add the "All-Star Versus Mode" codes from Project M, which allow you to fight with multiple different characters in succession, instead of only one. [Mimsy]
Pin Clock: "We will not be taking requests for Gameplay Modes."
---
Please add the Stamina Mode codes from Project M, including all five Types that alter knockback, blast zones, and the camera. These would be a great fit for Minus. [Bent 00]
Pin Clock: "We will not be taking requests for Gameplay Modes."
---

Fighter

Captain Falcon:

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Please change the input for Falcon's Super Taunt (Instant Falcon Punch Charge) from "Up-Taunt, Down-Taunt, Up-Taunt" to "Hold Up-Taunt". As-is, it fails because of input issues far too often. [Bent 00]

Spoiler: Why?

A complex input like "Up-Taunt, Down-Taunt, Up-Taunt" is fine for Luigi's dancing Secret Taunt, and it's not as much of a problem with Lucario's ULTRATAUNT, but it IS a problem with Falcon's Instant Falcon Punch Charge. As I've mentioned on the forums, if you mash too fast, Falcon will just twitch in place. But the real problem is how this unnecessarily complicated input makes charging an Instant Falcon Punch unreliable. You can generally only do it safely after earning a KO, and even then you have merely a few seconds to get it charged. I think it's too easy to mess up the "Up Taunt > Down Taunt > Up Taunt" input, which will keep you from getting the charge you deserved, and may even get you punished by the returning opponent.

There's no reason for Falcon's Instant Falcon Punch Charge Super Taunt to have such an error-prone input. I'd like it to be "Hold Up Taunt" instead. You can't mess that up! Save the complex inputs for stuff that you really don't want to trigger by accident, or stuff that is meant to be "Secret" -- not regularly-used moveset elements that can only be activated in clutch situations. When it comes to Smash Bros., streamlined, reliable controls are much better than complex, unreliable controls.

Note: It's been pointed out that one can map unused buttons to Up-Taunt and Down-Taunt to make inputting Falcon's Super Taunt easier, but I've tried this -- even though I use all the buttons already -- and it just makes the twitching more likely to happen. It's not a good solution. Mashing the Gamecube controller's tiny D-Pad works more often, but that is not reliable either.

Pin Clock: "We will not be changing secret taunt inputs, and the windows for them on both Falcon and Lucario are as long as they can get."
---

Diddy Kong:

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Implement Diddy's sunglasses taunt from Project M. Preferably, this would have a less-strict input window and not disappear when damage is taken. Maybe let Diddy taunt again to take the sunglasses off. [baltarc]
Pin Clock: "This would be a pain to get permissions for (from multiple sources) and all-in-all not worth the trouble."
---

Donkey Kong:

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Please give Donkey Kong his rolling Dash Attack from the Donkey Kong Country games, the way Project M did. I don't know if you'd be able to make it roll off edges, but it could be made Jump-cancelable, at least. [Malkasaur]
Pin Clock: D.K.'s Dash attack is already good and it'd be too much of a balance adjustment on an already solidly-balanced character for the final release."
---

Ganondorf:

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Decrease hitlag on Ganondorf's Down-Air. If perfect-shielded or even just blocked, Down-Air is punishable. [Xaxidoro]
Pin Clock: "You probably shouldn't just be randomly Down-Airing people's shields like that. Plan carefully and try not to get punished."
---

Mewtwo:

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Future Sight is a cool idea. However, it should launch at a better angle. Launching at 90 degrees is useless. [Malkasaur]
Pin Clock: "90 degrees is probably the most consistently useful angle there is"
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Samus:

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Please make the tipper hitbox of Samus' Z-Air visible. [ALLCAPS]
Pin Clock: "It's technically already visible -- it's the tiny sphere of light at the end."
---

Squirtle:

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Implement Squirtle's sunglasses taunt from Project M. Preferably, this would have a less-strict input window and not disappear when damage is taken. Maybe let Squirtle taunt again to take the sunglasses off. [baltarc]
Pin Clock: "This would be a pain to get permissions for (from multiple sources) and all-in-all not worth the trouble."
---

Wolf:

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I'd like to see Wolf's Sweetspotted Side-Special change. I never really got why it was a spike/meteor. Doesn't make much sense to me. [Malkasaur]
Pin Clock: "change: The meteor has plenty of function even on stage and is wonderful as a kill move offstage, and has no reason to change."
---

 

[Pin Clock]

I'd move the one you left in pending to rejected, since i was really responding to both of those at once.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

I agree with Roy's Aerial Side-B needing to be interruptable, as it creates balance and doesn't make his RoyDash obscenely broken. Though just to ask, what do you mean by "Roy's Aerial Side-B shouldn't diminish"?

You know how Marth and Ike can neutral/side special repeatedly as long as they want? Roy's side B can't do that. It goes less distance every time you use it. Also, if you use it directly out of hit stun, it doesn't go anywhere but still diminishes.

 

[Bent 00]

I'd move the one you left in pending to rejected, since i was really responding to both of those at once.

Done. For future reference, clear wording of your replies helps Requests not get left in PENDING, or elevated only to UNDER CONSIDERATION when you actually already approve of adding them to the next build.

If an approving response sounds like "this could work" / "sounds fun" / etc., but doesn't state plainly "yes" / "we can do that" / etc., that sounds more like UNDER CONSIDERATION than APPROVED to me.

I only move a Request to REJECTED if it's specifically shot down. Wouldn't want to mark something as REJECTED unless I'm certain it is!

 

[SilverStarApple]

When Game+Watch uses Judgement and it gets a 1, he should be damaged by 50%.

 

[SilverStarApple]

Future Sight is cool, but needs a damage and hitstun boost, and the angle should make it easier to hit knocked foes with a KO Move.

 

[SilverStarApple]

Why was Maid Lucario rejected?

 

[Gold_TSG]

Please edit your posts instead of making several in a row.

 

[player_03]

When Game+Watch uses Judgement and it gets a 1, he should be damaged by 50%.

No thanks.

Future Sight is cool, but needs a damage and hitstun boost, and the angle should make it easier to hit knocked foes with a KO Move.

It doesn't need to deal damage, it already locks them for plenty of time, and Mewtwo has multiple aerials that can kill.