Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth.
Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC
- Thread starter Bent 00
- Start date
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
If you watch closely, Peach does a spinning kick with both legs, and Yoshi only uses one leg to kick the ball, while Waluigi uses both legs to seemingly jump off the ball, launching it away. Sounds like enough justification for a powerful Footstool to me.
Also, Waluigi got his start in Mario sports games, and most of his appearances are in them, so the Mario Sports games have more bearing on Waluigi's abilities than they do for characters like Peach and Yoshi, who have more traditional games we can draw inspiration from.
Besides that, neither Peach or Yoshi are in need of Buffs right now. Waluigi is being rated THE WORST fighter in 4.0BC.
In the next version of Brawl Minus (after 4.0BC), who do you want to see significantly Buffed?
Who do you think are the Top 10 WORST fighters in Brawl Minus 4.0BC?
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Thor
Well-Known Member
I feel like the good Mario bros having powerful footstools makes sense, but Waluigi and Wario don't need them - I like the waft animation idea for Wario, but Waluigi just getting the Mario/Luigi footstool feels lazy [IF we want Mario Bros and evil versions to have whacky footstools].
I can't come up with a good idea for it tbh... maybe if Waluigi did a swimming motion off their heads that either had a powerful hitbox above [clearing away others in teams when he footstools] or else benefitting him somehow...?
Like what if Waluigi got his double jump back when he footstooled someone? I don't know, just spinning off ideas, but I do like the idea of unique footstools for Mario Bros/knock-off Mario Bros based on their games.
I can't come up with a good idea for it tbh... maybe if Waluigi did a swimming motion off their heads that either had a powerful hitbox above [clearing away others in teams when he footstools] or else benefitting him somehow...?
Like what if Waluigi got his double jump back when he footstooled someone? I don't know, just spinning off ideas, but I do like the idea of unique footstools for Mario Bros/knock-off Mario Bros based on their games.
Fun fact: reverse up b had the same knockback as forward upb in Melee it's how the move is supposed to work.
Thor
Well-Known Member
IIRC Melee up+b, when b-reversed, had only a tipper hitbox behind Marth, while the forward facing one had a both regular and tipper hitboxes, which [combined with the fact that you can't grab ledges backwards] is why people use reverse up+b for the PAL Ken combo.
I still think this would be dope af. Break the limits of melee boys
It is impossible for the game to distinguish what is and isn't a projectile as far as armor goes. We can only distinguish that with "Can this article be reflected or absorbed?"
Issue is then it becomes impossible to hit with a good chunk of weak attacks. 6% armor is good for certain moves but not overall, even if it's only for a certain percent range
Bowser used to have 10% armour on literally everything and several characters like marth could just never get him into hitstun and he was nigh uncomboable. Even though 6% is a big difference from 10% it would still bring up problems where characters like Pikachu and ZSS can't touch him.
Old Bowser did not have the 10% armor when in hitstun, so if you did get him into hitstun you could have comboed him. It was still awful design of course.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
Nope. It's the same both ways. People reverse it because it's easier to recover afterwards if you need to grab ledge. Read Tai's marth guide for more detail.
Thor
Well-Known Member
The funny part was that a lot of those characters were even with or beat him anyway, because of the ridiculous mobility they had and his susceptibility to grabs.
6% would leave Pikachu and ZSS totally able to hit him - Pikachu has SHAC dair back, not to mention nair, while ZSS has her normal aerials and ftilt, not to mention side+b.
I talked to an original dev team member who's no longer with the team [w0n't drop names] and he told me they actually built Bowser first, asking the question, "How can we make a traditionally awful character viable in a game where everyone has even easier combos and he's still a giant target?"
I would assume you knew this [unless you weren't an original team member and were never told this], and I'm not saying they met the goal [I'd have to play the original build but there were probably characters who just bodied him even with the armor], but the original reasoning made sense [if not normally, than it made Minus sense], but it meant some characters had to play matchups completely differently from how they fight every other character.
I still actually want to try that build and ideally find someone who can play Bowser well and fight them with Fox [since everyone on here seems to cite that matchups as terrible, which this original dev disagreed with], but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
Give fox "Melee Falco's Shine". This would increase his vertical combo game and make wavelanding after a shine insanely good. It would also lead to nifty things like Shine turnaround jc Bair to edgeguard or shine jc any aerial. I would suggest polling this though because I don't know how many foxes would want this in but I feel like it could be a potential buff to fox and it could include more elements from melee.
MelonKeepR
Well-Known Member
Make Lucas' down-b hitbox come out when jump-cancelled.
As it is now, when you jump cancel Lucas' down-b like you would Ness', no hitbox comes out. This, in my opinion, makes it pretty useless offensively. I really don't see any reason for Lucas' down-b to not work like Ness' does. I think the way Lucas' Zeus down-b works is good.
Make Lucas' multishines good!
As it is now, when you jump cancel Lucas' down-b like you would Ness', no hitbox comes out. This, in my opinion, makes it pretty useless offensively. I really don't see any reason for Lucas' down-b to not work like Ness' does. I think the way Lucas' Zeus down-b works is good.
Make Lucas' multishines good!
Thor
Well-Known Member
Are we just ripping off that one mod now? There's some mod where Falco has Fox's shine and vice versa...
Not intentionally I just feel like Falco's shine would be a cool option on fox.
MelonKeepR
Well-Known Member
The Melee 20XX training pack allows you to switch between vanilla characters and SD Remix characters. Normal SD Remix doesn't change top 8, but for some reason, the 20XX version switches Fox and Falco's shine.
MelonKeepR
Well-Known Member
Maybe reduce the amount of time the final hitbox on Sonic's dash attack lasts for?
Today, I was playing a match with my friend. He did a dash attack, I went to grab when I thought I was safe and I got spiked. This has happened in the past, and I really don't think it's okay to be afraid to punish dash attack just because it's so difficult to tell when there is a hitbox and when there isn't.
The hitbox itself is fine, it just lasts way too long.
Today, I was playing a match with my friend. He did a dash attack, I went to grab when I thought I was safe and I got spiked. This has happened in the past, and I really don't think it's okay to be afraid to punish dash attack just because it's so difficult to tell when there is a hitbox and when there isn't.
The hitbox itself is fine, it just lasts way too long.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
I think that would actually be really cool and fit into minus very well, but I'm not sure the dev team will like it... We can hope!
simsims2800
N E S S
On the contrary, I'd like Falco to get his own Melee Shine back. I may not have much experience playing this mod with other people, but to me, Falco's Down-B isn't all that useful. Sure, it reflects, and sure, it trips, but 99% of the time your opponent is either going to roll away after getting hit before you can follow up or punish you hard for missing. (And since this is Minus, that's a SUPER hard punish 100% of the time.) Falco's Melee Shine would expand his combo and edgeguarding game big time.
To compensate, you guys can remove a double jump or two, or maybe even make his aerial lasers laggy enough that he can't SHDL anymore. Just please do whatever you need to so that Minus Falco getting his Melee Shine could be balanced (in context, of course).
Edit: Also, could you guys add some sort of training room stage?
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