Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC

[Kymaera K1ng]

Make it so Samus's grab can grab aerial opponents. I was playing ALLCAPS as Peach and literally just floated through Samus's grab and got a punish I definitely didn't deserve.

Apply to all tethers please

 

[Bent 00]

You're thinking of gravity, higher weight reduces knockback from moves and has no relation to fall speed. For an easy example, Yoshi weighs significantly more than Fox, but Fox falls significantly faster than Yoshi.

Yeah, I meant Weight, not Gravity. Oops.

Anyway, after we playtested a +10 heavier Falcon, Pin told me that a Weight increase for Falcon isn't happening after all, because he doesn't need it.

I was initially against the idea because I thought more Weight = faster falling = worse recovery, but learned that's not how Weight works in Brawl.

Ended up deciding against the extra weight for Falcon because...
- He doesn't get K.O.ed off the top too early as-is,
- Adding more than a little extra Weight would have made Falcon heavier than characters he should not outweigh, and
- Falcon would rather get knocked high up in the air rather than lower, since he's better at recovering from up high than he is from down low. More Weight = higher Knockback Resistance, which would have cut down on Falcon's air time.

Can't update the Request list tonight, but will do soon.

 

[Neville]

Apply to all tethers please

ZSS's can grab out of the air from my experience.

 

[Mawootad]

Apply to all tethers please

Looks like a holdover from vBrawl that nobody was aware of because why would that be a thing (it's just Samus that's affected). That will definitely be fixed, it's stupid for it to work like that in the first place.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

Looks like a holdover from vBrawl that nobody was aware of because why would that be a thing (it's just Samus that's affected). That will definitely be fixed, it's stupid for it to work like that in the first place.

Oh, OK. Also I'd just like to say all the proposed changes for minus are lookin real nice

ADDITION: Hey Pin. A while back I wanted a way to combo out of Nana's throws, but I didn't really have any ideas how without giving IC's the infinite back. I was wondering if you could change how the ice block mechanic worked. Instead of giving the frozen opponent grab invulnerability and true super armor, what if you just gave them grab immunity? It would work as a worse version of the paralysis effect. If you do this, reduce the knock-back on Nana's throw's as well so they hit the ground while in ice.

EDIT: Make sure that throwing them with Nana at the edge doesn't kill them lol

 

[Dusk]

Release more patches before the final release to patch up commonly known bugs, please. [Dusk]
Pin Clock: "Only if there are emergencies like CHUUUgate and Back-Air the Character."

Personally I think there should be patches in between to keep the audience entertained and to show them that you guys are still working on it. Releasing something once a year isn't the best way to handle things.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

Personally I think there should be patches in between to keep the audience entertained and to show them that you guys are still working on it. Releasing something once a year isn't the best way to handle things.

Yeah, patches make it interesting, though I don't think that the patches should be major, or they'll affect tourney players too much

 

[player_03]

Request: once Kirby lands on the ground, let him cancel Stone into dtaunt.

Kirby needs more options out of Stone. Yes, dtaunt isn't exactly a good option (it lasts even longer than Stone's existing end animation), but having two options allows Kirby to play mindgames.

Besides, Kirby needs to say "Hi" more often. Not as often as Sonic says "you're too slow," but more often than he currently does.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Everybody needs cancels out of everything into everything, that way everybody has options forever.

 

[Bent 00]

Request: once Kirby lands on the ground, let him cancel Stone into dtaunt.

Kirby needs more options out of Stone. Yes, dtaunt isn't exactly a good option (it lasts even longer than Stone's existing end animation), but having two options allows Kirby to play mindgames.

Besides, Kirby needs to say "Hi" more often. Not as often as Sonic says "you're too slow," but more often than he currently does.

Everybody needs cancels out of everything into everything, that way everybody has options forever.

Spoiler: Taunt spam is annoying.

 

[player_03]

Taunt spam is annoying.

Kirby can already dtaunt repeatedly. Using Stone will only reduce how fast he can spam.

My point is that it makes sense for Kirby to say "hi" as he reappears. It makes more sense than Raptor Boost, and way more sense than Sonic's jab. If you don't like the idea of canceling the move, then why are you playing Minus maybe Kirby could say "hi" during Stone's regular end animation. I still think Stone needs a slight buff, but it doesn't have to be this.

 

[Bent 00]

Not disagreeing with you about Stone needing a Buff, but I think Kirby's "Hii" should be reserved for Taunts only.

Taunts lose their impact if you spread them too thin or use them too much.

I think I'm part of a minority that wants to think of Minus as "Awesome/Cool with just a little bit of Silliness", while the majority can't get enough of the silly/annoying/obnoxious stuff like "Y-Y-Y-Y-You're too Y-Y-You're too Slow". Stuff like that makes me cringe.

 

[player_03]

What if it was a less obnoxious "hi," like the one from Kirby 64?

 

[Farkus]

If you wanna buff rock drop, make it stone flip and make it move like bouncing fish. So kirby turns into a rock and flips forward. Not only would it look cool, but it would also be useful.

 

[AGentleStar]

lol, that would be silly looking. Are you talking about the rockfist uppercut from Return to Dreamland?

 

[Farkus]

lol, that would be silly looking. Are you talking about the rockfist uppercut from Return to Dreamland?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B38UOQAQovnoRUNBN1Q5QTFNRTA
I was thinking something more like this.

 

[Pin Clock]

Still not done, but I've answered a lot more!

Tabuu's Theme/SSE Boss Theme on FD: This is unlikely to happen due to the tech work that would need to go into putting these in without replacing other things since they aren't intended to play on normal stages and thus would require adding My Music slots.
Please fix his UpB: We're going to promise
Dance stuff and Pichu: We will look into tweaking moves after we tweak our Pichu first.
Fart Charge Time: Could have sworn I answered this, but yeah we'll increase it, and give more time to the potent fart.
Redesign: Also swore I answered this, but we will most likely not give characters full revamps at this stage in the game. At most, we would adjust how one more or two works, but not rework their entire character.
Random Damage increases: Could you go into the reasonings as to why? They seem a little unnecessary.
Fart Footstools: Seems silly enough
Mario Bros. Footstool: This would seem weird on him compared to the Bros., so we'll have to say no here.
Fix Parasol: Yes. Thought I answered this one.
Invuln on successful counter: This makes sense, so yes
Earlier SideB cancels: Yeah. We can probably make this work, not sure why we haven't
Meteor Hitbox on dTaunt: Seems like a "why not" kinda thing
Nerf Pikmin Toss More: Pikmin Toss is in a pretty good place right now, I encourage exploring more Olimar Counterplay.
It's a Mystery: We won't be doing this.
Dash Speed: Is fine as-is.
dTilt: While Melee dTilt may seem better than Minus dTilt on paper, Minus dTilt works better in Minus G&W's kit due to how its KB properties work out with its momentum shenanigans, and can combo in mid to kill percents.
Waddles stop jumping: They jump so Dedede doesn't have to start from square 1 every time he wants to use one of those moves. The exception being dSmash since it was intended to him to use this as a Waddle-Clearer.
Range hitboxes on dSmash: This move is supposed to be a Powerful "get off me" tool. Not really a zoning tool like the rest of her kit but a move that allows her to get the pressure of her so she can zone with the rest of her moves. This does not need ranged hitboxes.
Proposed Shine changes: These would mess around with how Wolf mains handle the character too much, so another no here.
Cancel air dodges into specials: Accidents happen. Gotta prepare for them, can't balance around accidents unless they are extremely frequent.
Real Melee airdodge: Giving anyone else a true Melee airdodge would take away from what makes Fox unique, as well as treads down a slippery slope we don't want to go down. No here.

 

[Bent 00]

Could have sworn I answered this, etc.

Been busy with other stuff, so I haven't updated the Request List since 12-18-2016 at 11:31 PM EST,
so I have two batches of your comments to apply. I'll get started on it now.

UPDATE COMPLETE!

Notes:

Spoiler: Putting these in APPROVED, despite no definite "Yes"

General

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The default music settings will be used by new players and netplayers alike, so I'd like to request you enable these songs by default and disable the alternatives. [player_03]

Spoiler: Stage/Song List

Big Blue: Mute City (Melee)
Dreamland: Dreamland (SSB)
Final Frustration: No Johns
Fountain of Dreams: Fountain of Dreams (Melee)
Lavender Town: Pokémon Tower / Lavender Town
Metal Cavern: Metal Mario

Pin Clock: "This shouldn't be too hard, we just need to figure out a few things."
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Fighter

Ike:

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Add a really good (but situational) meteor hitbox to Ike's Down Taunt. [SilverStarApple]
Pin Clock: "Sounds fun, combined with Quick Draw into Taunts."
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Wario:

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Since Wario is going all-out with the flatulence in Minus, I think his Footstool should feature a fart. [Bent 00]
Pin Clock: "Seems silly enough."
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[Mimsy]

Can Marth's reverse dolphin slash (reverse up b) have more knockback/kill power in 4.0f than his forward up b?

1) As it stands right now, Marth's up b is not a usefull kill move in it's current state. Yes it will kill at very very high percent, but as long as your opponent doesn't have the DI of a turtle, he will not die from a PAL Ken combo less than 120%.
2) Reverse up b has the same reward as forward up B but has fewer hitboxes, meaning the risk to get a reverse up b combo does not reward the player with any benefit for ending a combo on a smaller hitbox.

 

[Farkus]

Can we have custom soundtrack, the music of brawl is nice, but its not the best.

 

[Dusk]

Nerf Pikmin Toss More: Pikmin Toss is in a pretty good place right now, I encourage exploring more Olimar Counterplay.

As someone who plays olimar I'd like to disagree. Currently Pikmin Toss allows him to stay out of fights if need be. He has a great approach/disengage game with dtilt already. If the Olimar player wanted to they could focus on spamming Pikmin Toss and spamming down B if the opponent approaches with a laggy move to super armour, dtilt to also use a movement option, upB or upB OOS, or use any of his aerials. I feel like the pikmin spam is overtuned BUT theres two issues wrong with this. One is that I guess his lackluster recovery compensates it and two if you nerf it its as if you're nerfing what makes brawl minus, brawl minus. This game was all about breaking characters then balancing them I feel like as of recent the community has been focused more on nerfing silly things but thats a tangent for another topic I guess.

Real Melee airdodge: Giving anyone else a true Melee airdodge would take away from what makes Fox unique, as well as treads down a slippery slope we don't want to go down. No here.

Completely disagree the thing that makes fox unique is his shine. Wolfdashing is awkward because of the inputs for wolfdashing. Not only is it not like anything else in the game but its slightly uncomfortable to get use to.

Proposed Shine changes: These would mess around with how Wolf mains handle the character too much, so another no here.

I recommend testing this before shutting it down I'd be curious on how much the proposed shine changes would actually change how wolf plays and even if you did change how a character feels that hasn't really stopped you guys previously. Why not experiment with it nothing wrong with making big changes out of the blue.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

As someone who plays olimar I'd like to disagree. Currently Pikmin Toss allows him to stay out of fights if need be. He has a great approach/disengage game with dtilt already. If the Olimar player wanted to they could focus on spamming Pikmin Toss and spamming down B if the opponent approaches with a laggy move to super armour, dtilt to also use a movement option, upB or upB OOS, or use any of his aerials. I feel like the pikmin spam is overtuned BUT theres two issues wrong with this. One is that I guess his lackluster recovery compensates it and two if you nerf it its as if you're nerfing what makes brawl minus, brawl minus. This game was all about breaking characters then balancing them I feel like as of recent the community has been focused more on nerfing silly things but thats a tangent for another topic I guess.




Completely disagree the thing that makes fox unique is his shine. Wolfdashing is awkward because of the inputs for wolfdashing. Not only is it not like anything else in the game but its slightly uncomfortable to get use to.


I recommend testing this before shutting it down I'd be curious on how much the proposed shine changes would actually change how wolf plays and even if you did change how a character feels that hasn't really stopped you guys previously. Why not experiment with it nothing wrong with making big changes out of the blue.

THANK YOU SO MUCH THAT'S WHAT I SAID BEFORE AND YOU ARGUED WITH ME FUR DAYZ

 

[Bent 00]

Mario Bros. Footstool: This would seem weird on him compared to the Bros., so we'll have to say no here.

Just in case this was Rejected because you think there's no justification for Waluigi having a powerful Footstool...

Waluigi's standard abilities include jumping, punching, and kicking. His legs are shown to be particularly powerful, as he easily defeats Bowser with a kick in Mario Party 3, and he is able to stomp characters into the ground in the Super Smash Bros. games. He shows his leg strength in Super Mario Strikers, with his Drop Rocket technique. In addition, Waluigi is demonstrated to be a great jumper. His stats are seen to come close to Luigi´s jumping skill, if not surpassing it. In Mario Strikers Charged, Waluigi demonstrates excellent speed, being the fastest character alongside Daisy. [Source]

In this video from Super Mario Strikers, check out Waluigi's Super Strike:
Imagine if that ball were an opponent! If Waluigi can do that to a Soccer Ball, he should be able to Footstool as well as the Mario Bros. IMO.

Also, could Waluigi's moveset feature Bob-ombs somehow? They seem to be one of Waluigi's signature weapons. Peach can pull Bob-ombs occasionally, so I think it would be fitting for Waluigi to be able to, as well. Perhaps he could pull a Bob-omb as a Super Taunt, or pull several as a different Final Smash if the Tennis Ball one doesn't work out? What if Waluigi's Final Smash made him invincible for 10-20 seconds or so, spawned a bunch of Bob-ombs (which take much longer to start walking off on their own), and Waluigi could fire them off at three different angles with his three F-Tilts (or just Throw them)?

Giving Waluigi access to a Soccer Ball might be a fun idea too.

I recall that Rolling Crates were made to react to Wario's moves in specific ways... I wonder what we could do with Bob-ombs and Soccer Balls.

 

[player_03]

Giving Waluigi access to a Soccer Ball might be a fun idea too.

Cool idea, but I ran some tests, and the soccer ball is hard to use effectively. A couple of Waluigi's attacks straight-up miss the ball, and most of the rest hit it upwards. (For instance, regular ftilt misses, and downwards ftilt hits the ball well over Bowser's head.) Unlike DK's barrels, a soccer ball is no longer dangerous when it comes back down, so it would mainly be useful against airborne opponents.

Waluigi can send the ball at a bunch of different angles, but some of those options are slow, and most of his multi-hit moves give unpredictable results.

Waluigi's side special works surprisingly well. The move hits the ball a short distance horizontally, allowing Waluigi to catch up and hit it again. Basically, Waluigi puts a hitbox out in front of him to protect himself as he swims.

His fsmash works kind of well too. It hits the ball high, but less high than most moves. Plus, if you catch a ball at about Waluigi's eye level, fsmash will semi-spike it, which means it spends more time near the ground.

A lot of these things could be fixed by adjusting the soccer ball physics. Make it go lower, and make it weaker to counteract the fact that it's easier to aim. This could give Waluigi an option comparable to DK's barrels.

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But that said, the Brawl- team is trying to finish up this game, and they aren't interested in totally revamping characters. Giving Waluigi a strong, versatile projectile would seriously change his gameplay. And they had years to balance DK's barrels, but they'd only have months for this.

But I realize that maybe you weren't suggesting this. I kind of took the idea and ran with it, but there could be better options.

For instance, how about spawning a soccer ball when Waluigi is about 80% done charging his fsmash? Spawn it right in front of him so he can't avoid hitting it, and set the timer so that it vanishes after a single bounce. Waluigi could time his fsmash to hit it at any point in its fall or during its single bounce, so he'd have a little control over where it went, but not enough control to cover every possible option.

Since fsmash can semi-spike the ball, this would be a powerful gimping option no matter how much you nerf the ball's knockback. On the other hand, charging fsmash at the ledge is extremely obvious, so the opponent would have plenty of time to get out of the line of fire.

 

[player_03]

Imagine if that ball were an opponent! If Waluigi can do that to a Soccer Ball, he should be able to Footstool as well as the Mario Bros. IMO.

The reason Mario and Luigi have the meteor footstool is because they're known for jumping on enemies, not because of their abilities in Super Mario Strikers. Peach and Yoshi both kicked the ball as hard as Waluigi; should they get meteor footstools too?