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WARNING: THIS TIER LIST DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING! ITS LITERALLY JUST LIKE WHO I FEEL IS BEST AND PUT INTO A SEMI-COHERENT ORDER! TIER LISTS WITHOUT TOURNEY RESULTS MEAN ABOUT AS MUCH AS A RANDOM LIST OF CHARACTERS SLAPPED UP BUT HEY YOU'RE NOT MY MOM DON'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE OK GOSH
So its been a while since we last looked at tier discussion, but I'm very confident that the game has evolved a good bit since then and we could benefit from looking at where people feel characters are falling out now. Something that you should take away from this is that this tier list is WRONG. Don't get mad at me if you see a character you think is great towards the bottom, but DO get a replay of that character doing great things and show me. Way easier to change someone's mind with evidence, a lot harder to do it with 'yeah he's better, TRUST me'.
Ok tier list go
So there you have it, my personal opinion of where things lie at the moment. Feel free to rip into it and tell me where things should be different, but also remember I'm sneakily using this to get replays out of you suckers as well!
So its been a while since we last looked at tier discussion, but I'm very confident that the game has evolved a good bit since then and we could benefit from looking at where people feel characters are falling out now. Something that you should take away from this is that this tier list is WRONG. Don't get mad at me if you see a character you think is great towards the bottom, but DO get a replay of that character doing great things and show me. Way easier to change someone's mind with evidence, a lot harder to do it with 'yeah he's better, TRUST me'.
Ok tier list go
A Tier
1. Lucario
2. D3
3. ROB
4. Sheik
5. ZSS
6. Wolf
7. Ganon -2
B Tier
8. Bowser
9. Donkey Kong
10. Captain Falcon
11. Zelda
12. Jigglypuff
13. Olimar +3
14. Ivysaur
15. Falco +15
16. Ike
17. Diddy
18. Marth +3
19. Fox
20. Link
21. Metaknight +16
22. Snake
23. Luigi
24. Charizard
25. Wario
26. Kirby
27. Yoshi
28. Pit
C Tier
29. Ness
30. Lucas +5
31. G&W+8
32. Toon Link
33. Ice Climbers
34. Mario
35. Pikachu
36. Peach
37. Samus -4
38. Squirtle
39. Pichu -10
40. Sonic
1. Lucario
2. D3
3. ROB
4. Sheik
5. ZSS
6. Wolf
7. Ganon -2
B Tier
8. Bowser
9. Donkey Kong
10. Captain Falcon
11. Zelda
12. Jigglypuff
13. Olimar +3
14. Ivysaur
15. Falco +15
16. Ike
17. Diddy
18. Marth +3
19. Fox
20. Link
21. Metaknight +16
22. Snake
23. Luigi
24. Charizard
25. Wario
26. Kirby
27. Yoshi
28. Pit
C Tier
29. Ness
30. Lucas +5
31. G&W+8
32. Toon Link
33. Ice Climbers
34. Mario
35. Pikachu
36. Peach
37. Samus -4
38. Squirtle
39. Pichu -10
40. Sonic
A Tier
1. Lucario - It may not be as universal as it once was, but I still maintain that Lucario's the strongest character in the game. Not be the leaps and bounds we used to see, but the sheer power Lucario can output if you can't put him down (and with smart use of counter, its gunna be a trial) makes it like facing down a Ganon who can move around the stage in a blink of the eye. His projectile game is fairly weak (of course ignoring the high percentage version), but fits well into his chase game offstage and helps pile damage up and keep Lucario safe. The recent Lucario nerfs make this critter a lot more manageable before 75%, but there's also nothing stopping Lucario from pumping himself up via taunts and charging his sphere, or just straight up fighting you for a bit. In a nut shell, kill Lucario before he hits high percentages or you're going to lose.
2. D3 - Surprise, this list still looks a lot like it used to. Don't worry I promise it gets more varied once we start getting further down. D3 I -almost- even put above Lucario, if only because D3 is pretty much everything Lucario has nightmares about. If you're playing a good D3, you're playing his game. No ifs ands or buts. He WILL take stage control, and from there its a matter of desperately navigating the maze of hurt he's laying down while simultaneously keeping an eye out for gordos breaking through the rest of the minion rain. Even when you DO finally break through his mess, you're still left looking at a really big problem; D3's grab game is ludicrously good. The base damage on his throws are very high, but if you manage to get caught with a minion in the actual throw you wind up taking somewhere around 25% and end up sitting in prime minion tossing area. D3 is held back by how rewarding it is to actually break through his defenses, he's a big slow fatty with overall poor aerial responses to most characters.
3. ROB - Don't think there's many people left out there who aren't familiar with what ROB is capable of. He's got a great projectile game, strong approach, and amazing recovery. Easiest way to deal with ROB is stay in shield and let him come to you. Keep him above you when you can and for the love of god don't miss techs because they're free gyro hits.
4. Sheik - Fighting a good Sheik will raise your blood pressure. No other character can keep you so on guard from the moment the game starts til the second the announcer calls 'game' like she can, and on top of that she's lightning fast in the air and has KO power out the butt. It starts to eat away at you when you keep trying to hit Sheik only to have her vanish out of the way and appear behind you... and I love it. Sheik FEELS like a ninja. From the way she moves, to the way she attacks, it all just clicks. And that makes actually catching her out and landing a combo feel that much more rewarding. You had nothing but your gut intuition, and you called the shot right and reaped the benefits. Or you missed and now you're on fire and dead but such is life.
5. Ganon - Old man Grandpadorf is still very much alive and kickin, mostly because he's still pretty much the exact same version we've seen for a long time now. A lot of people have lamented the loss of his cancel out of his neutral b, but seriously that was far from a pivotal part of his game and only served to make a 1-hit-KO move super risk free if they hadn't already gotten to you. Outside of that, Ganon is still a true force to be reckoned with. Eat a solid 4 or 5 attacks from Ganon and you'll likely be down a stock, and believe me its not cake to keep him off of you. With side-b being a tech chasing machine, and down-b coming out lightning fast you have to be ready for Ganon at all times to keep up. But alas, he's still got the same weaknesses any big slow character has. He's gunna get combo'd. He's gunna get gimped. That's the world you live in when you pick Ganon, but you're also never more than a handful of hits away from a big comeback either!
6. Zero Suit Samus - Man can you believe that the first list I made had her at like the BOTTOM?! The way I see ZSS is pretty much C. Falcon if he got around to using his gun, and also apparently its a stun gun. Very nimble, incredible aerial followups, and a lot of range on almost everything she's throwing out there. Surprisingly, its not her recovery that really slows her down though. ZSS struggles thanks to some difficulty landing kills outside of fair and bair, which are certainly not impossible to land but pale in comparison to the ease you have with the rest of her kit as well as her generally light weight. Its hard to keep Zamus around from a legit kill, but at least this time around you're not just getting gimped right away.
7. Wolf - Man Wolf is just good ok? He's got a strong, really obnoxious projectile that eats through whatever you're doing and locks you in place for a second. He's got mobility for days with his side-b/side-b cancels. His jabs are sexy. His aerials all either combo great or blow people away. The one think I don't think Wolf does exceptionally well is recover. On paper, wolf's recovery is nigh infinite. You just chain side-bs forever, but in application this is not always the case. With such wide sweeping motions, it makes if difficult for wolf to reach a pinpoint location. Like the ledge. Meaning from the second you start your recovery, a Wolf player needs to be in RED FLASHING LIGHT CRITICAL DEATH MODE because even a SLIGHT mistiming will put you just a liiiiiitle bit off and whoops now you're dead.
B Tier
8. Bowser - Bowser has always been a fantastic character, even with his weaknesses of being hella easy to combo since he can live to close to 200% no problem if you're not landing the right moves on him. Couple that with his ability to actually kill you at like 70% and you have a problem. Couple THAT with the whole Royal Rampage shenanigans and you have a downright TERROR. With the recent slew of buffs Bowser's received, he's harder than ever to actually pin down while picking up a HUGE amount of combo potential from the reworks of his down and side specials. Bowser might live forever off the top, but he's still very prone to being gimped if you can manage to get him below the stage.
9. Donkey Kong - Like Bowser, but more barrels. DK gives you a lot more wiggle room than Bowser does in that you're not really required to land a grab to get things going, you just gotta get in there and be a big dumb angry monkey and slap some punks around. His jab combo sets up for pretty much WHATEVER he wants, and DK really shines his brightest when he's in the air or throwing out his massive utilt at low percentages. The recovery buff helped cover one of DK's greatest flaws, leaving him the typical fatty character problems where you're just a big target for hits.
10. Captain Falcon - When I first was added the the BRoom and Falcon came up, someone told me 'the only thing holding back Falcon is your own imagination.' Or something to that effect. At the time it seemed really silly but the more I've played the more I've seen that Falcon is capable of pretty much just that. Massive combo potential, the best finishing aerial in the game (maybe not literally, but LITERALLY), and speed only rivaled by someone you won't see for a long time on this list. Falcon played to perfection is probably the best character in the game due to his sheer speed, but of course you'll notice he's NOT at the top of the list. If you've played Falcon, odds are you've been gimped. And by 'odds are' I mean 'you definitely got gimped'. Falcon is fast, but SO predictable offstage. You're gunna see him use side-b if he's too far out for just up-b, and then up-b if that doesn't get him back to the stage. You might see some slight variety if he's still got his double jump, but that's pretty much it.
11. Zelda - Zelda is one of those characters that is completely overwhelming, until you get a feel for what exactly Zelda is looking to do. The teleport mechanics give her insane presence on the stage and a reliable counterplay to a lot of projectile users. She's got great KO potential and can be very safe while going for it. But once you realize that you can block her ranged hitboxes and even if she teleports to you, you can just grab her in the end lag, you're pretty much in control. She CAN come to you, but thats not a bad thing anymore. If she doesn't warp to you, you just drop your shield and keep truckin on with your own approach. She'll run out of stage to back away on, and then you take it to her. She's notoriously lightweight, so once you get your hands on her she won't be long for this world.
12. Jigglypuff - Around this part of the list I'm going to start dropping off on these descriptions because goddamn I have FORTY characters to deal with now and I'm only on 12. In all honesty, I'm not even sure I'm putting Jiggs high enough on this list. There's a LOT of potential for rest combos that haven't had their surface scratched, and we've already seen how well the whole gravity taunt can be utilized. Jiggs is a monster both on stage and ESPECIALLY off. But, yes, a character named 'Jigglypuff' is also super easy to kill.
13. Ivysaur - Ivysaur is insanely good if you can keep people zoned effectively. Between bair and uair alone you can just poke at people all day until you get them to kill percentages and then work towards her awesome throws or powerful aerials. The down-b nerfs DO hurt and you can very very easily punish a whiffed leaf storm, as well as the crit hit on razor leaf being nigh impossible to land make her a less potent fighter than she once was. But not by a huge degree!
14. Ike - To be completely upfront, this Ike placement is based off of the buffs that are being considered for Ike currently because really they just make a lot more sense than what its currently at. But even without them, he only would have dropped a handful of places since Ike is so much more than NSM. Ike plays a lot like Ganon, except without the grab on the end of his rushes and instead a lot more combo power. Ike's not going to be exactly chasing anyone offstage often, but while he's onstage he's going to be cleaning up. Unless they have a good projectile they can spam. Then Ike's going to struggle a bit.
15. Diddy - Diddy's combo and pressure game is pretty unreal, and his peanut spawning mechanic is a really useful interrupt when used properly. He's still very predictable in his recovery, but thankfully for him if he's above the stage he has a much easier time making something happen with side-b than he will trying to charge up his up-b. Once the latter comes into play, pretty much anyone with a bit of timing and a good dair will put an end to poor Diddy.
16. Olimar - New Olimar is SUPER cool. He's still potentially a spam machine, but the new side-b really rewards Olimar for getting in there and locking the opponent in place until the pikmin hits go off. Some of the kills you see this achieve are some of the flashiest stuff I've seen in minus. The once glaring weakness of his recovery is now only a SLIGHTLY glaring weakness, which is at least a step forward. He can cover a lot more ground but is relatively helpless while doing so, meaning you need to be very careful and play around your opponent just as much as you needed to before.
17. Fox - I really think this a much better fit for Fox than his previous A Tier placement, because while yes he -can- be played incredibly effectively the same can be said for a lot of the cast without such precision and speed required. Shinespikes are just as sexy in minus as they were in melee, and they're arguably a lot easier to pull off now (though with how mobile people are offstage I might end up having to take that back).
18. Link - Another fallen A Tier character, I just have been having a hard time seeing Link with a huge advantage over pretty much anyone these days. His projectiles set up a solid wall, but they also lock Link into place while he's throwing them out for the most part (or at least largely slow down his approach). Which in a sense is the whole point of his projectile game, but Link is so much stronger up close and its pretty easy to just block pretty much anything he can throw at you at a range. His recovery covers a ton of area yeah, but if you manage to hit him out of it he's really not that much harder to gimp than anyone else with a straightforward recovery.
19. Snake - Snake I feel like is just too middle ground to really excel at anything in particular in minus. He's pretty heavy, but not enough to keep him alive to ridiculous percentages while still being enough to make him easy combo bait. He's got solid projectiles, but they're not more impressive than a lot of others and they're also one of the few that can be turned back around against the character using them. He's got good stage control, but its easily avoided most of the time and can be triggered by hitting them with a projectile or disjointed hitbox. He's a great character, but just doesn't really have anything that puts him REALLY up there.
20. Luigi - Probably deserves to be higher, but I just don't feel it from what I've experienced. His combo game is unreal, but it just doesn't seem to have the KO power behind it that some of the other characters have.
21. Marth - Better than I've thought in the past for sure, but still just a very straight forward character. Got great range of course, but his tippers aren't anything more powerful than you'll see in a lot of the powerhouse characters. I don't even know what more he needs, since on paper he's already a very solid character. I think my biggest problem with Marth is honestly he's just dull to me. There's only so much variety you can find in a character who's every attack is 'he swings his sword THIS way', but that doesn't mean he's not a viable character. Lots of good combos, powerful smashes (though requiring specific spacing still), and a far reaching approach in his neutral b cancels.
22. Charizard - Charizard can be an incredibly commanding character and be absolutely devastating in his approach. Charizard's biggest problem is that his fair works great for zoning, unless your opponent like... shields it. And then they can just come bop you in the endlag. And once they're in on Charizard, he's just like the rest of the fatties. Something I failed to touch on last time as well were the power he has in his nair, and the stage control he can take with his rock smash (usually ledge control). The fireball is a neat addition, but with how slow its startup is you'll more often than not find that your opponent managed to air dodge or roll out of the way.
23. Wario - Once we start getting into this territory down here it starts to become less 'this character is worse than the one above it' and more 'these guys are all good but I have to put them in SOME order so here we go'. Wario's a good character. His aerial mobility is unrivaled, even when looking at characters like Jigglypuff. He's got a lot of great KO moves that can take people by surprise, but like, I just don't see him as one of the best characters in the game so far. So much of his kills seem to rely more on catching your opponent out, and if you can't do that you're going to be stuck fighting them for a lot longer than you'd normally be.
24. Kirby - Surprised? I was a bit too frankly, but when you look at how characters can kill as early as they do compared to Kirby I don't think he deserves as high of a spot as he's previously had. Sure Kirby's Fsmash packs a massive punch, but beyond that you're pretty much going to find yourself stuck building up to 100% and shooting for uthrow to finish people off or hoping you can manage a dair gimp offstage. Looking at the alongside Kirby's low low weight, it just doesn't add up to an A tier character or even high B tier.
25. Yoshi - Yoshi. He's a good character. Surprisingly good recovery with the super armor on his jumps. Good projectile, good combo potential. I dunno. I don't see Yoshi played a lot.
26. Pit - I see even less of Pit than I do than Yoshi. WHOOPS.
27. Pichu - Still very very early in Pichu's career to be placing this, but I really don't see Pichu as a top character or even somewhere close to there. Pichu has a handful (nair and side-b specifically) of moves that hit obscenely hard, but otherwise doesn't really have anything to offer that Pika doesn't already, with a less fluid feel. I'd still put Pichu above Pika if only for the more consistent killing power.
C Tier
28. Ness - If ever there was a character that I felt like DEFINED C Tier, it would be Ness. For all intents and purposes outside of recovery, Ness is a BOSS. His combo game is incredible. His projectile pressure with aerial PK fire and PK thunder is amazing. He can get kills stupid early with his dair. And yet, his recovery is SO BAD that all of that is offset by it enough that I can't even call him B tier.
29. Falco - Incredibly obnoxious with his laser walls, to the point where I started to realize how many people can say Falco is probably one of their worst matchups out there. Honestly, I STILL don't know that I have him high enough here considering the sheer edge he can pull on such a hefty amount of the cast just by playing passively and coming in once there's a comfortable opening. Once he is in, he's capable of dishing out a pretty decent amount of damage too. His combos won't exactly drag on for days, but its enough to rack up some solid damage and then fall back and wait for another chance to come in.
30. Toon Link - I don't know a ton about TL, but I know you can reflect his arrows and pretty much make his biggest asset into a massive problem for him. Outside of that, he's fast but not unbelievably so, and his range on his attacks leaves you wanting a lot of the time.
31. Ice Climbers - Pretty tentative spot here, the ICs have had a LOT of their problems addressed but I simply don't know enough about them to really put them anywhere yet. I feel like they'll probably settle in SOMEWHERE around here, possibly higher, but I still don't see them as one of the scariest characters in the game.
32. Mario - Mario's a pretty good character, but a lot like Snake he's not really excelling at anything enough to make him a super threat to anyone. With his Metal Mario edge taken almost entirely away he's just not exceptionally special anymore.
33. Samus - Probably too early to say whether or not this placement is right, but for now I don't really see Samus taking off to much. Not to say it can't happen, but hey got nothin but time here.
34. Pikachu - Suuuuper effective as a gimp character, but there's a number of characters who can either recover too quickly or can stall offstage until Pika's exhausted his thunders/thunderbolts. Pika's legit kill power isn't nearly as potent, so if you can't manage to land a gimp you're gunna end up scraping kills out post 150% more often than not.
35. Lucas - I've always found Lucas to be like a worse Ness. His recovery is more potent, and he's got a more versatile offstage game. But I don't feel like his damage output or actual kill power is anywhere close to Ness'.
36. Peach - For all the changes Peach has seen, I still don't see Peach as a threat like I do the majority of the of the cast. Like any other character in the game, she can be played effectively and win games but I think she has to work harder still.
37. Metaknight - GOOD BUT NOT GREAT just like pretty much everyone down here on this list I dunno. I've been writing this for forever now so forgive me for falling off at the end here.
38. Squirtle - Too easily killed thanks to being super light weight AND having a terrible recovery.
39 G&W - Feels less like a minus character and more of 'generic smash guy'. Everything he has feels so bland, but I'm not sure if thats due to his moveset or just because he's a 2D guy who doesn't have a whole lot of room for craziness.
40. Sonic - I used to say stuff like 'man I'm really scared of seeing a good Sonic', but now I'm pretty sure that's just not going to happen. Not because people aren't good at Sonic, but because Sonic himself is not that good. Sure you can use his speed boost really well and rain down hell on people from all sides, but that doesn't matter at all if you can't get a kill. Sonic is in desperate need of something to actually END his assault on, because as is with good DI you can expect to live for a LONG time.
1. Lucario - It may not be as universal as it once was, but I still maintain that Lucario's the strongest character in the game. Not be the leaps and bounds we used to see, but the sheer power Lucario can output if you can't put him down (and with smart use of counter, its gunna be a trial) makes it like facing down a Ganon who can move around the stage in a blink of the eye. His projectile game is fairly weak (of course ignoring the high percentage version), but fits well into his chase game offstage and helps pile damage up and keep Lucario safe. The recent Lucario nerfs make this critter a lot more manageable before 75%, but there's also nothing stopping Lucario from pumping himself up via taunts and charging his sphere, or just straight up fighting you for a bit. In a nut shell, kill Lucario before he hits high percentages or you're going to lose.
2. D3 - Surprise, this list still looks a lot like it used to. Don't worry I promise it gets more varied once we start getting further down. D3 I -almost- even put above Lucario, if only because D3 is pretty much everything Lucario has nightmares about. If you're playing a good D3, you're playing his game. No ifs ands or buts. He WILL take stage control, and from there its a matter of desperately navigating the maze of hurt he's laying down while simultaneously keeping an eye out for gordos breaking through the rest of the minion rain. Even when you DO finally break through his mess, you're still left looking at a really big problem; D3's grab game is ludicrously good. The base damage on his throws are very high, but if you manage to get caught with a minion in the actual throw you wind up taking somewhere around 25% and end up sitting in prime minion tossing area. D3 is held back by how rewarding it is to actually break through his defenses, he's a big slow fatty with overall poor aerial responses to most characters.
3. ROB - Don't think there's many people left out there who aren't familiar with what ROB is capable of. He's got a great projectile game, strong approach, and amazing recovery. Easiest way to deal with ROB is stay in shield and let him come to you. Keep him above you when you can and for the love of god don't miss techs because they're free gyro hits.
4. Sheik - Fighting a good Sheik will raise your blood pressure. No other character can keep you so on guard from the moment the game starts til the second the announcer calls 'game' like she can, and on top of that she's lightning fast in the air and has KO power out the butt. It starts to eat away at you when you keep trying to hit Sheik only to have her vanish out of the way and appear behind you... and I love it. Sheik FEELS like a ninja. From the way she moves, to the way she attacks, it all just clicks. And that makes actually catching her out and landing a combo feel that much more rewarding. You had nothing but your gut intuition, and you called the shot right and reaped the benefits. Or you missed and now you're on fire and dead but such is life.
5. Ganon - Old man Grandpadorf is still very much alive and kickin, mostly because he's still pretty much the exact same version we've seen for a long time now. A lot of people have lamented the loss of his cancel out of his neutral b, but seriously that was far from a pivotal part of his game and only served to make a 1-hit-KO move super risk free if they hadn't already gotten to you. Outside of that, Ganon is still a true force to be reckoned with. Eat a solid 4 or 5 attacks from Ganon and you'll likely be down a stock, and believe me its not cake to keep him off of you. With side-b being a tech chasing machine, and down-b coming out lightning fast you have to be ready for Ganon at all times to keep up. But alas, he's still got the same weaknesses any big slow character has. He's gunna get combo'd. He's gunna get gimped. That's the world you live in when you pick Ganon, but you're also never more than a handful of hits away from a big comeback either!
6. Zero Suit Samus - Man can you believe that the first list I made had her at like the BOTTOM?! The way I see ZSS is pretty much C. Falcon if he got around to using his gun, and also apparently its a stun gun. Very nimble, incredible aerial followups, and a lot of range on almost everything she's throwing out there. Surprisingly, its not her recovery that really slows her down though. ZSS struggles thanks to some difficulty landing kills outside of fair and bair, which are certainly not impossible to land but pale in comparison to the ease you have with the rest of her kit as well as her generally light weight. Its hard to keep Zamus around from a legit kill, but at least this time around you're not just getting gimped right away.
7. Wolf - Man Wolf is just good ok? He's got a strong, really obnoxious projectile that eats through whatever you're doing and locks you in place for a second. He's got mobility for days with his side-b/side-b cancels. His jabs are sexy. His aerials all either combo great or blow people away. The one think I don't think Wolf does exceptionally well is recover. On paper, wolf's recovery is nigh infinite. You just chain side-bs forever, but in application this is not always the case. With such wide sweeping motions, it makes if difficult for wolf to reach a pinpoint location. Like the ledge. Meaning from the second you start your recovery, a Wolf player needs to be in RED FLASHING LIGHT CRITICAL DEATH MODE because even a SLIGHT mistiming will put you just a liiiiiitle bit off and whoops now you're dead.
B Tier
8. Bowser - Bowser has always been a fantastic character, even with his weaknesses of being hella easy to combo since he can live to close to 200% no problem if you're not landing the right moves on him. Couple that with his ability to actually kill you at like 70% and you have a problem. Couple THAT with the whole Royal Rampage shenanigans and you have a downright TERROR. With the recent slew of buffs Bowser's received, he's harder than ever to actually pin down while picking up a HUGE amount of combo potential from the reworks of his down and side specials. Bowser might live forever off the top, but he's still very prone to being gimped if you can manage to get him below the stage.
9. Donkey Kong - Like Bowser, but more barrels. DK gives you a lot more wiggle room than Bowser does in that you're not really required to land a grab to get things going, you just gotta get in there and be a big dumb angry monkey and slap some punks around. His jab combo sets up for pretty much WHATEVER he wants, and DK really shines his brightest when he's in the air or throwing out his massive utilt at low percentages. The recovery buff helped cover one of DK's greatest flaws, leaving him the typical fatty character problems where you're just a big target for hits.
10. Captain Falcon - When I first was added the the BRoom and Falcon came up, someone told me 'the only thing holding back Falcon is your own imagination.' Or something to that effect. At the time it seemed really silly but the more I've played the more I've seen that Falcon is capable of pretty much just that. Massive combo potential, the best finishing aerial in the game (maybe not literally, but LITERALLY), and speed only rivaled by someone you won't see for a long time on this list. Falcon played to perfection is probably the best character in the game due to his sheer speed, but of course you'll notice he's NOT at the top of the list. If you've played Falcon, odds are you've been gimped. And by 'odds are' I mean 'you definitely got gimped'. Falcon is fast, but SO predictable offstage. You're gunna see him use side-b if he's too far out for just up-b, and then up-b if that doesn't get him back to the stage. You might see some slight variety if he's still got his double jump, but that's pretty much it.
11. Zelda - Zelda is one of those characters that is completely overwhelming, until you get a feel for what exactly Zelda is looking to do. The teleport mechanics give her insane presence on the stage and a reliable counterplay to a lot of projectile users. She's got great KO potential and can be very safe while going for it. But once you realize that you can block her ranged hitboxes and even if she teleports to you, you can just grab her in the end lag, you're pretty much in control. She CAN come to you, but thats not a bad thing anymore. If she doesn't warp to you, you just drop your shield and keep truckin on with your own approach. She'll run out of stage to back away on, and then you take it to her. She's notoriously lightweight, so once you get your hands on her she won't be long for this world.
12. Jigglypuff - Around this part of the list I'm going to start dropping off on these descriptions because goddamn I have FORTY characters to deal with now and I'm only on 12. In all honesty, I'm not even sure I'm putting Jiggs high enough on this list. There's a LOT of potential for rest combos that haven't had their surface scratched, and we've already seen how well the whole gravity taunt can be utilized. Jiggs is a monster both on stage and ESPECIALLY off. But, yes, a character named 'Jigglypuff' is also super easy to kill.
13. Ivysaur - Ivysaur is insanely good if you can keep people zoned effectively. Between bair and uair alone you can just poke at people all day until you get them to kill percentages and then work towards her awesome throws or powerful aerials. The down-b nerfs DO hurt and you can very very easily punish a whiffed leaf storm, as well as the crit hit on razor leaf being nigh impossible to land make her a less potent fighter than she once was. But not by a huge degree!
14. Ike - To be completely upfront, this Ike placement is based off of the buffs that are being considered for Ike currently because really they just make a lot more sense than what its currently at. But even without them, he only would have dropped a handful of places since Ike is so much more than NSM. Ike plays a lot like Ganon, except without the grab on the end of his rushes and instead a lot more combo power. Ike's not going to be exactly chasing anyone offstage often, but while he's onstage he's going to be cleaning up. Unless they have a good projectile they can spam. Then Ike's going to struggle a bit.
15. Diddy - Diddy's combo and pressure game is pretty unreal, and his peanut spawning mechanic is a really useful interrupt when used properly. He's still very predictable in his recovery, but thankfully for him if he's above the stage he has a much easier time making something happen with side-b than he will trying to charge up his up-b. Once the latter comes into play, pretty much anyone with a bit of timing and a good dair will put an end to poor Diddy.
16. Olimar - New Olimar is SUPER cool. He's still potentially a spam machine, but the new side-b really rewards Olimar for getting in there and locking the opponent in place until the pikmin hits go off. Some of the kills you see this achieve are some of the flashiest stuff I've seen in minus. The once glaring weakness of his recovery is now only a SLIGHTLY glaring weakness, which is at least a step forward. He can cover a lot more ground but is relatively helpless while doing so, meaning you need to be very careful and play around your opponent just as much as you needed to before.
17. Fox - I really think this a much better fit for Fox than his previous A Tier placement, because while yes he -can- be played incredibly effectively the same can be said for a lot of the cast without such precision and speed required. Shinespikes are just as sexy in minus as they were in melee, and they're arguably a lot easier to pull off now (though with how mobile people are offstage I might end up having to take that back).
18. Link - Another fallen A Tier character, I just have been having a hard time seeing Link with a huge advantage over pretty much anyone these days. His projectiles set up a solid wall, but they also lock Link into place while he's throwing them out for the most part (or at least largely slow down his approach). Which in a sense is the whole point of his projectile game, but Link is so much stronger up close and its pretty easy to just block pretty much anything he can throw at you at a range. His recovery covers a ton of area yeah, but if you manage to hit him out of it he's really not that much harder to gimp than anyone else with a straightforward recovery.
19. Snake - Snake I feel like is just too middle ground to really excel at anything in particular in minus. He's pretty heavy, but not enough to keep him alive to ridiculous percentages while still being enough to make him easy combo bait. He's got solid projectiles, but they're not more impressive than a lot of others and they're also one of the few that can be turned back around against the character using them. He's got good stage control, but its easily avoided most of the time and can be triggered by hitting them with a projectile or disjointed hitbox. He's a great character, but just doesn't really have anything that puts him REALLY up there.
20. Luigi - Probably deserves to be higher, but I just don't feel it from what I've experienced. His combo game is unreal, but it just doesn't seem to have the KO power behind it that some of the other characters have.
21. Marth - Better than I've thought in the past for sure, but still just a very straight forward character. Got great range of course, but his tippers aren't anything more powerful than you'll see in a lot of the powerhouse characters. I don't even know what more he needs, since on paper he's already a very solid character. I think my biggest problem with Marth is honestly he's just dull to me. There's only so much variety you can find in a character who's every attack is 'he swings his sword THIS way', but that doesn't mean he's not a viable character. Lots of good combos, powerful smashes (though requiring specific spacing still), and a far reaching approach in his neutral b cancels.
22. Charizard - Charizard can be an incredibly commanding character and be absolutely devastating in his approach. Charizard's biggest problem is that his fair works great for zoning, unless your opponent like... shields it. And then they can just come bop you in the endlag. And once they're in on Charizard, he's just like the rest of the fatties. Something I failed to touch on last time as well were the power he has in his nair, and the stage control he can take with his rock smash (usually ledge control). The fireball is a neat addition, but with how slow its startup is you'll more often than not find that your opponent managed to air dodge or roll out of the way.
23. Wario - Once we start getting into this territory down here it starts to become less 'this character is worse than the one above it' and more 'these guys are all good but I have to put them in SOME order so here we go'. Wario's a good character. His aerial mobility is unrivaled, even when looking at characters like Jigglypuff. He's got a lot of great KO moves that can take people by surprise, but like, I just don't see him as one of the best characters in the game so far. So much of his kills seem to rely more on catching your opponent out, and if you can't do that you're going to be stuck fighting them for a lot longer than you'd normally be.
24. Kirby - Surprised? I was a bit too frankly, but when you look at how characters can kill as early as they do compared to Kirby I don't think he deserves as high of a spot as he's previously had. Sure Kirby's Fsmash packs a massive punch, but beyond that you're pretty much going to find yourself stuck building up to 100% and shooting for uthrow to finish people off or hoping you can manage a dair gimp offstage. Looking at the alongside Kirby's low low weight, it just doesn't add up to an A tier character or even high B tier.
25. Yoshi - Yoshi. He's a good character. Surprisingly good recovery with the super armor on his jumps. Good projectile, good combo potential. I dunno. I don't see Yoshi played a lot.
26. Pit - I see even less of Pit than I do than Yoshi. WHOOPS.
27. Pichu - Still very very early in Pichu's career to be placing this, but I really don't see Pichu as a top character or even somewhere close to there. Pichu has a handful (nair and side-b specifically) of moves that hit obscenely hard, but otherwise doesn't really have anything to offer that Pika doesn't already, with a less fluid feel. I'd still put Pichu above Pika if only for the more consistent killing power.
C Tier
28. Ness - If ever there was a character that I felt like DEFINED C Tier, it would be Ness. For all intents and purposes outside of recovery, Ness is a BOSS. His combo game is incredible. His projectile pressure with aerial PK fire and PK thunder is amazing. He can get kills stupid early with his dair. And yet, his recovery is SO BAD that all of that is offset by it enough that I can't even call him B tier.
29. Falco - Incredibly obnoxious with his laser walls, to the point where I started to realize how many people can say Falco is probably one of their worst matchups out there. Honestly, I STILL don't know that I have him high enough here considering the sheer edge he can pull on such a hefty amount of the cast just by playing passively and coming in once there's a comfortable opening. Once he is in, he's capable of dishing out a pretty decent amount of damage too. His combos won't exactly drag on for days, but its enough to rack up some solid damage and then fall back and wait for another chance to come in.
30. Toon Link - I don't know a ton about TL, but I know you can reflect his arrows and pretty much make his biggest asset into a massive problem for him. Outside of that, he's fast but not unbelievably so, and his range on his attacks leaves you wanting a lot of the time.
31. Ice Climbers - Pretty tentative spot here, the ICs have had a LOT of their problems addressed but I simply don't know enough about them to really put them anywhere yet. I feel like they'll probably settle in SOMEWHERE around here, possibly higher, but I still don't see them as one of the scariest characters in the game.
32. Mario - Mario's a pretty good character, but a lot like Snake he's not really excelling at anything enough to make him a super threat to anyone. With his Metal Mario edge taken almost entirely away he's just not exceptionally special anymore.
33. Samus - Probably too early to say whether or not this placement is right, but for now I don't really see Samus taking off to much. Not to say it can't happen, but hey got nothin but time here.
34. Pikachu - Suuuuper effective as a gimp character, but there's a number of characters who can either recover too quickly or can stall offstage until Pika's exhausted his thunders/thunderbolts. Pika's legit kill power isn't nearly as potent, so if you can't manage to land a gimp you're gunna end up scraping kills out post 150% more often than not.
35. Lucas - I've always found Lucas to be like a worse Ness. His recovery is more potent, and he's got a more versatile offstage game. But I don't feel like his damage output or actual kill power is anywhere close to Ness'.
36. Peach - For all the changes Peach has seen, I still don't see Peach as a threat like I do the majority of the of the cast. Like any other character in the game, she can be played effectively and win games but I think she has to work harder still.
37. Metaknight - GOOD BUT NOT GREAT just like pretty much everyone down here on this list I dunno. I've been writing this for forever now so forgive me for falling off at the end here.
38. Squirtle - Too easily killed thanks to being super light weight AND having a terrible recovery.
39 G&W - Feels less like a minus character and more of 'generic smash guy'. Everything he has feels so bland, but I'm not sure if thats due to his moveset or just because he's a 2D guy who doesn't have a whole lot of room for craziness.
40. Sonic - I used to say stuff like 'man I'm really scared of seeing a good Sonic', but now I'm pretty sure that's just not going to happen. Not because people aren't good at Sonic, but because Sonic himself is not that good. Sure you can use his speed boost really well and rain down hell on people from all sides, but that doesn't matter at all if you can't get a kill. Sonic is in desperate need of something to actually END his assault on, because as is with good DI you can expect to live for a LONG time.
So there you have it, my personal opinion of where things lie at the moment. Feel free to rip into it and tell me where things should be different, but also remember I'm sneakily using this to get replays out of you suckers as well!
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