BRAWL MINUS DEV STREAM! SUNDAY 8PM EST/5PM PST

[Bent 00]

Quick summary of a few things I recall from the stream:

- Lucario will still be able to Double Up-B from the ground
- Lucario's Down B may get sparkles to warn which direction he's warping in from
- Metal Mario getting a slight HP boost
- Magus's and ds22's TYPE 3 Footstools = Taunts codes will be tested for inclusion in 4.0
- Ike's Super Moves are all being removed
- Ike will be able to activate No Sympathy Mode at any time
- Ike will be able to store an Eruption charge separately from NSM once again.
- Luigi will not get a hitbox on his fist, falling down after Up B
- Dedede is too centralized around Waddle Tossing
- Pichu is getting a lot of polish
- One of G&W's taunts fills up his Bucket by one level per use now
- Is Ice Climbers' Down B too good when desynched? Maybe
- Sonic's D-Air will no longer be a True Spike (?)
- Zelda's D-Tilt Ranged Hitbox on Slopes glitch fixed (?)
- Devs still want offstage Warlock Punch to be suicidal (for bad reasons IMO)
- Falcon's Up Smash not being changed
- No armor on Falcon's Fire Taunt

What did I forget?

Spoiler

Not that it makes much difference, but the colors above correspond to my feelings about each decision. Approves, Neutral, Disapproves.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Ike is losing Razing Eruption and Aetherial Eruption.

Roy is losing the spike on his aerial Flare Blade.

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

CSS

 

[Greatest_Aether]

How serious do our questions need to be? I have questions about Klondike bars and what the devs would do to acquire said Klondike bars.

I actually asked that.

 

[Bent 00]

That's a shame. Well, let's try to record what happened in here before we forget, then.

 

[Gold_TSG]

And to think I was looking foward to the recording

 

[Sammi-husky]

Quick summary of a few things I recall from the stream:
- Luigi will not get a hitbox on his fist, falling down after Up B

WHO WHAT WHEN?

I recall saying we would test / mess around with this. Must've not heard lol. In any case. Yea, were gonna test things regarding this

 

[Glyph]

- Lucario's Down B may get sparkles to warn which direction he's warping in from

This doesn't solve the problem of him being able to jc into another downb indefinitely, which is the real problem. Unless there's more to it that i don't see.

- Ike's Super Moves are all being removed
- Ike will be able to activate No Sympathy Mode at any time
- Ike will be able to store an Eruption charge separately from NSM once again.

More true to what Ike should be instead of Ike plus random additions, i like it.

- Dedede is too centralized around Waddle Tossing

Disagreed. D3 CAN be played in that style, but a truly skilled one will use the as setups along with his own kit to apply nutso pressure. Can understand a little nerf but don't gut this mechanic.

- Devs still want offstage Warlock Punch to be suicidal (for bad reasons IMO)
- Falcon's Up Smash not being changed
- No armor on Falcon's Fire Taunt

Yes to all 3, for reasoning see posts from over a year ago.

 

[Thor]

This doesn't solve the problem of him being able to jc into another downb indefinitely, which is the real problem. Unless there's more to it that i don't see.


More true to what Ike should be instead of Ike plus random additions, i like it.



Disagreed. D3 CAN be played in that style, but a truly skilled one will use the as setups along with his own kit to apply nutso pressure. Can understand a little nerf but don't gut this mechanic.



Yes to all 3, for reasoning see posts from over a year ago.

They are replacing JC with grab cancel and wallcling/jump cancel. [Maybe not wallcling cancel].

I think almost all DDDs just spam waddles and it still works [I know I've done that to humorous effect, and my DDD sucks].

Can't tell if you're saying good to not make changes, but I still firmly disagree characters should have moves that are guaranteed suicide on whiff onstage or offstage [even Puff's rest isn't, or at least wasn't] in Minus.

The usmash not being changed is understandable, but it would be cool [and I feel like pushing Falcon to that level, and balancing around him, would be amazing].

I don't think flame taunt needs a buff, although the idea posited of making it immune to fire moves would have been cool [Charizard has Rock Smash, Falcon has knee, Mario has d/usmash and a strong throw, and almost no one else is affected by this at all].

 

[Greatest_Aether]

I could have sworn I heard something about SEP...

 

[Pin Clock]

I could have sworn I heard something about SEP...

You did. We're gonna see if we can make it work again.

 

[Neville]

I don't think Dorf should have a no risk edgeguarding move. Doesn't make sense from a game design standpoint and no other fighting game I've ever seen has done this. Even though the point of minus is to break a fighting game, I dont see the point in it.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

You did. We're gonna see if we can make it work again.

My life is complete.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I don't think Dorf should have a no risk edgeguarding move. Doesn't make sense from a game design standpoint and no other fighting game I've ever seen has done this. Even though the point of minus is to break a fighting game, I dont see the point in it.

That's what his current super scope douken does already.

 

[Neville]

That's what his current super scope douken does already.

Gandouken isn't a guaranteed kill though.

 

[Bent 00]

I don't think Dorf should have a no risk edgeguarding move. Doesn't make sense from a game design standpoint and no other fighting game I've ever seen has done this. Even though the point of minus is to break a fighting game, I dont see the point in it.

Aren't Flame Choke and Wizard's Foot nearly risk-free offstage? I don't see how some of you are thinking SFWP is risk-free offstage. There's a tiny hitbox on 'Dorf's hand; jump over him and D-Air or go under him and U-Air / B-Air. It's the most risky offstage move 'Dorf has besides life-risking Dark Dive and suicidal 'Douken.

The arguments I keep seeing against SFWP don't make sense to me.

If anyone wants to try it out with me today, I'm free.

 

[Neville]

Aren't Flame Choke and Wizard's Foot nearly risk-free offstage? I don't see how some of you are thinking SFWP is risk-free offstage. There's a tiny hitbox on 'Dorf's hand; jump over him and D-Air or go under him and U-Air / B-Air. It's the most risky offstage move 'Dorf has besides life-risking Dark Dive and suicidal 'Douken.

The arguments I keep seeing against SFWP don't make sense to me.

If anyone wants to try it out with me today, I'm free.

If it's so risky why the fuck would you even want to go for it in the first place?

 

[Bent 00]

If it's so risky why the fuck would you even want to go for it in the first place?

The same reason why Falcon goes for a Flying Falcon Punch: Style.

"Ganondorf Strikes Back"

Captain Falcon loves to Punch,
Especially offstage!
Now I can't safely do the same...
It makes me seethe with rage

I got a taste of his joy:
My own fearsome flying fist,
How I laughed when it hit!
Now I would die if I missed

I have an on-hit Cancel,
But that's just a cruel joke;
It is much more practical
To F-Air, Wiz Kick, or Choke

Those moves are each impressive,
But they lack majesty and style
My Flying Warlock Punch was bold,
Terrific, amazing, and vile!

The Sages sealed my Signature move,
Now it's near-useless in the Light
Only in the Dark World
Can I still revel in its might

How do I reclaim my former glory?
I have a horrible hunch...
I'll tweak my technique, and call it
"Safe Flying Warlock Punch"

Instead of dropping like a rock,
I won't be self-destructive;
Rising momentum and flub hitboxes
Will be much more disruptive!

Captain Falcon, step aside,
The King of Evil can PAWNCH too;
I will rule the air with flaming fists
At least as well as you!

 

[Greatest_Aether]

That poem will never get old.

 

[Pin Clock]

The same reason why Falcon goes for a Flying Falcon Punch: Style.

It's even more stylish if you risk your life going for it and managing to pull it off. Falcon's may hit more and he may be able to live from it regardless if it hits or not, but Ganon's is the ultimate disrespect.

Also even if you were able to recover from it, pretty much anything else Ganon can do in the air will be more reliable for edgeguarding anyways, and for that matter if your method of edgeguarding is tossing out slow unreliable instant kill moves you may need to readjust your strategies rather than ask for the game to be adjusted for your strategies to work.

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

The same reason why Falcon goes for a Flying Falcon Punch: Style.

RAR Flame Choke to stage spike.

umad

 

[Bent 00]

It's even more stylish if you risk your life going for it and managing to pull it off. Falcon's may hit more and he may be able to live from it regardless if it hits or not, but Ganon's is the ultimate disrespect.

It could have the most awesome on-hit effects in the game (like SAHunterMech's GanoNuke GFX), but no one is going to attempt it in a remotely serious match if they're guaranteed to suicide for trying. The whole point of my arguments for changes to Warlock Punch is to make it a useable move offstage. This is Minus, there's no good reason it should be the only move in the game that is always suicidal offstage.

"Ultimate Disrespect" is "Ultimate Worthless" if you never use it.

Also even if you were able to recover from it, pretty much anything else Ganon can do in the air will be more reliable for edgeguarding anyways, and for that matter if your method of edgeguarding is tossing out slow unreliable instant kill moves you may need to readjust your strategies rather than ask for the game to be adjusted for your strategies to work.

As I've said countless times already, SFWP is supposed to be 'Dorf's least practical, most stylish offstage kill move. It's never supposed to be the best option -- F-Air, Wiz Kick, Flame Choke, and D-Air will always be safer choices -- SFWP is supposed to be that awesome move you consider going for when you have the lead, and want to show off, without throwing away a stock.

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

you have the lead, and want to show off, without throwing away a stock.

Or you can risk a stock anyway because you have the lead and you can?

 

[Neville]

The same reason why Falcon goes for a Flying Falcon Punch: Style.

So you want the style to not be as stylish?

 

[Bent 00]

Or you can risk a stock anyway because you have the lead and you can?

Actually, I use it even when I don't have the lead. It's great for making a surprise comeback.

So you want the style to not be as stylish?

How is landing a SFWP not stylish? Each one I land makes me smile.