Brawl Minus 4.1 Changelog

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Pin Clock, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom


    With our release of 4.1 coming up very soon, people really want to know what has been changed! So to help tide you over until release, here are the list of changes from BC that take Minus to a whole new level!

    Memory Expansion Code optimized.
    CPU Default Level is now set to 9, new names for CPU levels
    Footstools can now be performed with Taunt (Thanks to Magus and ds22)
    Tons of text changes/fixes, including in-game statements of things that may not work right (such as certain event matches)
    Smash 4 style Team Colors have been added
    Completely New HUD
    Stock Icons! (Stock Icons for our alt costumes and new characters by The Bug Man™)
    Coin Mode counts coins again
    Classic and All Star can now be played to completion
    Rotation Mode works again
    Tourney Mode redirects to Rotation for now

    Turbo Mode added
    Your favorite mode! Go nuts! Destroy your opponents by cancelling so many moves into other moves they won't know what they got combo'd by! Make mashing your controller look like true skill!

    Angled Camera Mode replaced with All Star Mode
    Your other favorite mode, you can battle foes as multiple characters! Select characters in the order you want them to be used, and beat your foes!

    Flower Mode replaced with Element Mode
    Each hit will deal a random element. In this mode, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!

    Added a Ledge Grab Limit, which is set to 5
    You are now only able to grab the ledge with invincibility 5 times before you have to land on the stage before you get invincibility again. This overdue code was finally put into place to fix the over prevalent amount of stall found in competitive play.

    Flat Shield Stun reduced from 7.4->6.4
    Lowered Shield Pushback

    Powershield Parry added, adding the following effects to Powershield:
    -Reflects Projectiles
    -Refresh powershield window
    -No shield damage, stun, or pushback
    -Total of 5 frames of hitlag (minus 1 frame)
    -Instant shield drop on release shield for the next 10 frames after hitlag ends
    -Up to 5 frames of intangibility on shield drop, capped by 10 frames after hitlag ends
    Before, Powershielding sometimes wound up being worse than regular shielding. This is never going to be the case again.

    Controls and Rumble can now be toggled in the CSS
    Press X when hovering over your name to adjust controls ad Rumble Rumble for that name
    Rematch code reworked
    During Pause Hold
    GameCube Controller: L-R-A-B-START/PAUSE
    Classic Controller: L-R-A-B-START
    Wii Remote + Nunchuck: Z-C-B-1-PLUS OR Z-B-1-MINUS-PLUS Wii
    Remote: B-1-2-MINUS-PLUS

    Upon seeing "GAME" Hold
    GameCube Controller: L-R-B
    Classic Controller: L-R-B
    Wii Remote + Nunchuck: Z-C OR PLUS-MINUS
    Wii Remote: PLUS-MINUS

    Return to CSS from SSS by Holding
    GameCube Controller: L-R-A
    Classic Controller: L-R-A
    Wii Remote + Nunchuck: Z-B-1 Wii Remote: B-1-2
    Some results animations reverted to 2.x.6

    Now has a YESSSSSSS sfx on it

    Knee of Justice (fAir)
    No longer forces the foes to fly in the direction Falcon is facing

    Reverse Falcon Punch now deals 1% more damage than forward Punch
    This is to match Reverse's properties in vBrawl


    Fixed this move from slowing down upon landing if Falcon started it in the air

    Raptor Boost
    -Damage increased to 15% total
    -KBG reduced 82 -> 62 to compensate for damage increase
    -Shield Damage increased from 0-10

    Falcon Kick
    -Is now B-reverseable
    Some results animations reverted to 2.x.6

    Shield Damage: 1->10
    -Looping Hitbox hitlag multiplier reduced from x0 -> x0.5
    -Finishing Hitbox size 10 -> 8

    Windbox no longer affects Grounded Foes

    Fire Bird
    -Distance reduced to match Fox's
    -Repeating Hitboxes size 8 -> 6.8
    -Finishing Hitbox size 10 -> 8
    While we got rid of the PERSONALLY I PREFER THE-FIRE! Ages ago, we never rebalanced the move since. Well it's about time we finally got to doing that.
    Hop V 1.95 -> 2.34
    Jumpsquat 3 -> 4

    sliding off ledges is allowed in more subactions, making it behave more proper and less clunky

    Dash Attack
    Attack Cancel moved from Frame 16 -> 23

    Cancel frame 31 -> 25
    Landlag 7 -> 9

    Cancel frame 31 -> 25
    Landlag 9 -> 11

    Momentum boost x1.1
    This is so the move can retain its old properties after the Gravity increase in 4.0b

    Endlag is cancellable starting at frame 33

    Fire Fox
    Can now grab edge during charge animation.
    Can now grab the edge during the "moving" animation, instead of just the end

    SFX changed to be identical to Melee's
    Initial dash speed 1.3 -> 1.8
    Max run speed 1.16 -> 1.25
    Double jump multiplier .95 -> 1.05

    New vBrawl based combo oriented nAir
    Before with the Multi-hit nAir, Ganon would find that rather than delivering a devastating 4 hit combo to his foes, that they'd be escaping it mid-combo or worse, deliver a devastating 4 hit a shield and being punished afterwards. While we have tried adjusting it in the past, we have ultimately decided it would be better for Ganon to try out a new nAir instead that focuses on his combo game, since most of his other moves are already finishers.

    Speed it up by a tiiiiiny bit

    Damage reduced from 15% -> 8%

    Wizard's Foot
    This move is now B-Reverseable
    Some Results animations reverted to 2.x.6

    Removed windboxes from the landing portion of the attack

    Fixed full charged indicators not synching when Ike goes from Air to Ground
    All of Ike's fire is now Blue dabadidabada

    Quick Draw
    Can now cancel into taunts on the ground

    Changed from no armor to Super Armor (lasts till the last 23 frames)

    Down Taunt
    Hitbox added when Ike slams his sword into the ground
    Forward Tilt (Angled Up)
    All Hitboxes: Trip Rate: 100% -> 0%
    Hitboxes 0 - 1: DMG: 5 -> 11
    Hitbox 2: DMG: 4 -> 10
    Angle: 361 -> 40

    Odd of losing Power when hit: 128 -> 0
    When you get a copy ability it is almost impossible to lose it from being hit by your opponent.

    Final Cutter
    Endlag 35 -> 25
    Angle 56 -> 116
    WBK 120 -> 0
    KBG 100 -> 0
    BKB 10 -> 90
    Anti-stage-spike property added
    Kirby's UpB now behaves how it did during 3.Q, in which the hitbox now pulls foes towards Kirby to encourage more Kirby comboes rather than pure spacing, while also addressing the reason we removed this functionality in the first place by adding our anti-stage spike property to it.
    Jumpsquat 7 -> 6
    Spotdodge Active frames increased from 3-26 to 2-26

    Is now two hits, pulling foes towards Bowser with the first and letting them out with the second. Press A during the first attack to do the second.

    uSmash, dSmash
    Added the roll cancels that fSmash has on their charging portions

    Whirling Fortress
    Initial Hitbox now extends the same distance both in front and behind Bowser
    Endlag decreased on ground

    Armor removed when hitboxes are not out
    First hit has autolink angle, less endlag (10 frames?)

    FSM between first and second hits (1.3?)
    Landlag window frames 2-50 -> frames 24-50 (moved from start of fair to immediately before start of second slash of fair)

    Can cancel arrow draw into Roll and Shield

    Gale Boomerang
    Returning dragging hitbox angle changed to 90 from 0 when reflected
    This eliminates a reflected Boomerang being very likely to kill Link if he doesn't shield. While this was hilarious and a long time Minus feature, we had to remove it due to giving Power Shields reflects causing the Boomerang to be a hinderance in every match-up rather than a few, and changing it to always have some sort of use and reflecting a much less fatal consequence.

    Bomb Pull
    1.5->1.7 FSM
    No longer has a random chance to pull deku nut
    Instead, Link pulls deku nuts on a 45 second timer
    Link flashes white and green when a deku nut is available
    These changes eliminate some cheese and add some strategy to Link. Now he can't throw two bombs up in the air and mash until he gets a Deku Nut, nor can he be lucky and get two Deku Nuts in a row. On the flip side, Link can't kill himself by immediately throwing what he pulls on reflex without thinking about what he may have gotten or by doing those inputs reflexively. Now Deku Nuts have no RNG associated with them and can be utilized in ways more beneficial to Link and fair to his foes.
    - Adjusted MAX aura aura sphere size:
    - Base Aura Sphere Growth: 3.0 -> 1.2
    - Aura Sphere Size Table:
    1.0 -> 1.0
    1.33 -> 1.15
    1.64 -> 1.22
    1.97 -> 1.43
    2.34 -> 1.55
    2.81 -> 2.75
    3.31 -> 1.85
    4.0 -> 2.1
    These are all to stop an ULTRATAUNT MAX AURA Lucario from winning games just by using Aura Sphere, rather than playing the High Risk High Reward game he was designed to play.

    Double Team
    Endlang increased to prevent spam and enable Lucario being punished for Double Team Spam
    This isn't our ideal change to this move, but we're hoping this fixes the issues with the move for now.
    Hold it down to extend the duration of the taunt
    Up Tilt (Early Hit)
    Hitbox 3: X Axis: 3.6 -> 5.5

    Up Tilt (Late Hit)
    Hitbox 3: X Axis: 3.6 -> 5.5
    In layman's terms, the hitboxes have been increased to match the length of the sword
    Changed vocal SFX from "Come back when you can put up a fight" to "Now my Power is without rival!"

    Forward Roll
    Active frames 5-12 -> 4-12

    Sweet spot angle 285 -> 295
    Sweet spot BKB/KBG 50/50 -> 53/53
    Sour spot angle 285 -> 295
    Sour spot BKB/KBG 50/75 -> 53/53
    These are nerfs to the move's power that should hopefully fix the issues it has

    Glide Attack
    Now transcendant

    Drill Rush
    Now transcendant
    Fixed his AI

    Spot Dodge
    Given the same GFX + SFX as PM Mewtwo

    Changed Lucario SFX to Mewtwo SFX

    Granted a bit more range (1)
    kbg 95 -> 115

    bkb 15/24 -> 20/30
    kbg 110/100 -> 90/80

    Up Tilt
    BKB: 35 -> 45
    KBG: 130 -> 110

    Up Smash
    Hit 1
    Hitbox 1: X Offset: 6 -> -6
    Multihit and Final hit gain a 5th hitbox with the same properties as their 3rd Hitbox, except the X Offset is -5.5, rather than 5.5

    Shadow Ball
    Fixed holding armored foes in hitlag forever (removed hitlag every 7 hits)

    Fixed Mewtwo remaining invisible if teleport into a walljump/Wallcling
    When ledge snapping out of teleport Mewtwo is now vulnerable for 2 frames similar to other teleportation moves
    Teleport Cancels on Aerials are now On-Hit only

    Future Sight
    Projectile can no longer be reflected or absorbed.
    Dash Speed: 1.3 --> 1.6
    Max run speed: 1.393 --> 1.65

    PSI Magnet
    Hitbox initial frame 4 -> 1
    Initial hitbox damage 5 -> 8
    Jump cancel starting frame 4 -> 1
    BKB 100 -> 80
    Trajectory 90 -> 75
    Looping hitboxes removed (Looping hitboxes previously made the damage and trajectory effectively 8 and 75 respectively)
    Now intangible from frames 1-4
    Endlag when not cancelled reduced
    Hitbox position fixed to correctly match the position of PSI magnet's gfx
    Backward Roll:
    Active frames 5-20 -> 4-20

    Invulnerability on successful counter 4 frames --> 10 frames
    Spores cannot be reflected or absorbed

    Peach Bomber
    Special Interrupt: Frame 26 -> Frame 22
    Toad Interrupt: Now only happens on pressing b without control stick input instead of on any b press

    Turnip Pluck:
    Fixed item pluck rate to 1/20 instead of 1/14

    Hitlag and SDI multiplier .5 -> 1

    Now correctly recovered in (hopefully) all situations
    Parasol fails to activate instead of immediately putting Peach into standard fall when used in the air
    Specials (Specifically his SideBs and UpBs)
    Can now be used again after being hit

    Side-Bs/Charged dair/charged fair
    no longer affected by hitstun

    Down Air Landing (Button held)
    Hitbox Size: 8 -> 6

    HeadN hurtbox
    Offset (0,1,.4) -> (-1,2,.4)
    Stretch (0,1.5,.4) -> (2,2.5,.6)
    Basically pichu's hurtbox extends to cover most of his ears

    Graphic effect no longer disappears on up and low tilted fsmash
    Side Taunt:
    IASA frame 60
    Pika PIKAA!!Pika PIKAPika PIKAPika PIKAA!!~~

    Sweetspot on the tip of the tail meteors opponents, sourspot sends them slightly downwards behind
    Spot dodge
    Active frames 3-20 -> 2-20

    Pikmin Pluck
    -Now regains all height boosting charges upon entering hitstun
    -Momentum no longer affected by hitstun
    -Can now be used to meteor cancel

    Pikmin Chain
    -Now stops Olimar's downwards momentum
    Backward roll active frames
    4-17 -> 4-19

    Wings of Icarus
    Can now be used up to 3 times in the air, with the counter refreshing if Pit is hit during this time
    Improved Entry Animation

    Increased Damage by 1%

    Slightly increased damage and knockback growth

    Dair: Sourspot damage 2 -> 6
    BKB 12 -> 13
    KBG 4 -> 1
    Grounded sweetspot damage 0 -> 10
    Endlag frames 64 -> 52 (same as autocancel)
    Sweetspot sizes 4/4+1/6 -> 6+1/6
    Sweetspot Y offset -10 -> -9

    Damage reduced 15% -> 7%

    fAir Sweetspot trajectory 80/70/60 -> 40

    Bullet Seed AKA IvyCopter
    Ivycopter now regained when hit in the air
    Ivycopter no longer consumed when falling off the ledge with neutral-b
    Velocity gain on copter .325 -> .335 Velocity gain without copter .25 -> .275
    Aerial non-copter horizontal drift removed
    Hitbox shrunken a bit

    Razor Leaf
    Critical hit active frames 21-27 -> 21-31

    Giga Drain
    Ivysaur and her foe now gain Super Armor when this move connects
    Fixed the move's state not converting from air to ground when Ivysaur lands
    Sweetspot damage 6-->11
    Sourspot damage 7-->10
    Lingering hitbox lasts 5 less frames
    Sweetspot hitbox is the one closer to his body instead of the disjoint

    Now properly out for 3 frames: Frame 20 -> Frame 18-20

    Blast Burn
    Now stalls Charizard the first time it is used in midair

    Can now grab ledge during nearly all of up-special

    Stealth Rock
    Increased startup lag. (FSM .88 frames 1-24)
    Fixed a bug in the Air to Ground transition
    Fixed a bug where Nana could not die while in suicide throws

    Icicle Shot
    Fixed a bug that had each climber shoot out two icicles instead of 1

    Now halts Popo's downward momentum on activation
    Midair jumps 5 -> 8

    Air Mobility
    Air Stopping Mobility: 0.17 -> 0.19
    Max H Air Velocity: 1.269 -> 1.35

    Spot Dodge
    Active frames 3-16 -> 2-20

    hitbox properly matches animation (frame 7 -> frame 9)

    Hitbox size increases with each beat (35 on all -> 18-27-36)
    -GFX altered to now be accurate to Sing’s hitboxes
    Robo Burner
    Now immediately recharges upon touching the stage
    Flame Dash (SideB)
    No longer affected by hitstun
    Restore 1% damage to prevent spam

    Homing missile:
    Remove double hitbox on seeking missile

    Super Missile:
    Angle 100 -> 35

    Power Bomb
    Cancel removed from ending animation.
    hitbox on her left leg will now send foes in the opposite direction

    Charging FSM removed.
    Charging rate doubled.

    Is now B-Reversable.
    Snake can now walk left and right via D Pad if holding a victim in a grab.

    Forward roll
    Active frames 4-17 -> 4-19

    Fixed bug where Cypher didn't refresh after c4 explosion on air

    Can now hold B to fake out. Not holding B makes it explode normally.
    The Article no longer explodes on its own after a minute.
    Never stickies back on Snake.
    KBG 90 --> 80
    Dash Attack
    Final (getup) hitbox active frames 28 -> 2
    IASA after final hit 0 frames -> 8 (effectively 18 frames earlier unless you hit extremely late into get up portion)
    Dashing hitbox sizes 3/2.5 -> 4

    Get Up Attack
    hitbox size 4 -> 5.5
    Additional hitbox added and existing one moved slightly down so that Sonic's whole body is covered

    Additional launching hitbox added slightly below the first to properly cover the area around sonic

    Hitbox sizes increased by 1 so that the largest ones are actually the size of Sonic

    Hitstun momentum bug fixed
    Final Smash
    No longer crashes the game
    Jumpsquat 4 -> 5

    Get up Attack (Up)
    Hitbox sizes increased by 1 unit. Outer hitbox placements extended slightly.

    Get up Attack (Down)
    Outer Hitbox sizes increased by 2 units, and extended outward by 2 units.

    Up Tilt
    Hit 1
    Added two hitboxes behind Waluigi to hit foes from behind.

    Side Tilt
    IASA: Frame 41 -> Frame 36

    Back Air
    Fresh Hit Duration: 3 Frames -> 5 Frames

    SDI Multiplier 1.3/1.3 -> .8/1.0
    Hitlag Multiplier 1.0/1.0 -> .8/1.0
    Initial strong hitbox angle 135 -> 45

    Uair SDI multiplier 1.3/1.3 -> .8/1
    Hitlag multiplier 1/1 -> .8/1

    Waluigi Splash (SideB)
    No longer consumes double-jump
    Waluigi now able to wall jump cancel this move
    Decreased endlag of the dive portion (where he hits the ground or bounces off a foe)

    Sweetspot damage 13 -> 15, kbg 60 -> 70, angle 135 -> 45
    Looping hits start frame 5 -> frame 7
    Looping hit angle 90 (plus some weird stuff) -> auto-connect (365)
    Final hit damage 2 -> 3, bkb 55 -> 70, kbg 140 -> 100, angle 60 -> 80, hitboxes tweaked to better cover Waluigi
    Air Mobility A 1.4 -> 1.3
    max horizontal air mobility 1.4444 -> 1.2
    Special Fall Landing Lag 50 -> 31

    Waft GFX/SFX added.

    Fixed hits not linking

    Now only has 1 hitbox instead of 1 before the extension and after
    kill power reduced slightly but added more growth
    hitboxes now do not clang, allowing projectiles and other hitboxes to beat it out when properly spaced or timed
    reduced the distance that extended bair travels
    changed hitbox angles to 361 angle
    increased landing lag by 6 frames (matches dair)

    Reduced number of hitboxes from 4 -> 2 (hand and finger)
    Frame 26 FSM changed to 0

    Can now turn around for throwing.
    Fixed a Bug where wolf wouldn't go into his TurnRun animation to achieve consistent Reverse Aerial Rush

    Moved hitbox under his hand to his hand

    Added ability to cancel into normals, shield, dodge, and jump after blaster fires (frame 17)

    Fire Wolf
    Removed Super Armor
    Changed all Angles to 365 and removed the 30 BKB on the late hits.
    Early Hit (All Hitboxes)
    WKB + KBG have been changed to 100.
    Late Hit (All Hitboxes)
    WKB + KBG have been changed to 90.
    Can now jump out of shield

    fsm x1.5 moved to cover 1-end instead of 1-15 being x2 and the rest being x1.5

    fsm x1.3 -> fsm x1.18
    Up Air
    If A was held at Frame 17, Zelda will now be able to act into Up Special on Frame 56.

    Farore's Wind:
    Increased damage on body hitbox (6->16), Buffed to match aerial Kill Power

    Down Special (Transform)
    Is now B-Reversable.
    Lots of music changes
    Special thanks to the BRSTM Team: Cahalan David V. Kimball Darxmarx Glitch JipC

    Final Frustration (Distant Planet)
    L06 Juicy Fruit Minus Ver. - Huw Williams Ft. Pat Cashman
    L01 What is Brawl Minus? - Ian Zerkel
    L07 PARANOIA - ZugZug
    L02 Vs. Master Hand (Super Smash Bros.) - Little V
    L04 Opening (Super Smash Bros. Melee) Johammad
    L08 Final Destination (Melee) Ver. 2 - OC Remix
    L05 Final Destination (Melee) Ver. 3 - OC Remix
    L03 Super Smash Bros. Brawl Main Theme Ver. 2 - OC Remix
    R08 Break The Targets! (Melee) Ver. 2 - OC Remix

    Venus Lighthouse (Mario Circuit)
    A20 Venus Lighthouse - Fenix Ark Angelus
    A21 Battle! (Isaac) - Synthescissor
    A22 Battle! (Isaac) Ver. 2 - FamilyJules
    A23 Battle! (Felix) - DarioRamsus, Cahalan
    R05 Battle! (Jenna) - Magius Necros
    R14 Battle! (Felix) / Final Boss - Brawl
    Q09 Saturos Battle - Jay Reichard, Cahalan

    Meta-Crystal 64 (Mario Bros.)
    A17 - Meta-Crystal (Super Smash Bros.)
    Q02 - Metal Battle (Melee)
    Q01 - Hazy Maze Cave - BlueJackG
    Q13 - Hazy Maze Cave Ver. 2 - Mesmonium
    Q14 - Duel Zone (Super Smash Bros.)- OC Remix

    Lavender Town (Flatzone 2)
    R04 Pokemon Tower / Lavender Town - Super Smash Land
    Q04 Mewtwo's Theme (Pokemon Stadium) - GaMetal
    W14 Danger! Sabrina's Theme (Pokemon Puzzle League)

    Fountain of Dreams (Rainbow Cruise)
    W02 Fountain of Dreams (Melee)
    W01 Nightmare Battle - OC Remix

    Peach's Castle 64 (Mushroomy Kingdom)
    A01 Peach's Castle (Super Smash Bros.)
    A02 Bowser's Road - OC Remix

    Hyrule Castle 64 (Bridge of Eldin)
    C02 Hyrule Castle (Super Smash Bros.)

    Dream Land 64 (Green Greens)
    W07 Dream Land (Super Smash Bros.)
    W06 Coo The Owl - Korak the Mad

    Yoshi's Story (Yoshi's Island Melee)
    W05 Yoshi's Story (Melee)
    W15 Yoshi's Island (Melee)

    Lavaville (Norfair)
    R12 - Go K.K. Rider! "Ver. 2" - Foxyshredzz

    Kongo Jungle 64 (Eletrokplankton)
    R03 Kongo Jungle (Super Smash Bros.)

    Fountain of Dreams
    Water GFX have been added
    Overall tremendous polish

    The game itself will be coming real soon, so hold on tight!
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  2. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

    My House
    B- FC:
    AGentleStar likes this.
  3. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

    B- FC:
    My Comments

    I don't think the problem was simply the ledges were abusable. I mean, they were! Don't get me wrong, but I think much of this could have been fixed by make the ledges like P:M where you don't auto-snap on to them. But okay. This change is alright by me. I think this more akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water, but it at least solves the problem.


    20XX is finally here.
    Awesome. Hopefully these changes make Fox more of a threat.
    Thank you. I preferred the way it works in Smash 4 as a combo move.
    I was like :charizard:
    But then I was like :squirtle:

    I like this change. Removes BS RNG SDs, UKnoWatIMeen? I'm sorry. I'll stop.
    This is fine. The dev team should make nerfs that make the game more interesting rather than simply weakening a character. If you want me to be in depth, just check out Core-A Gaming's video on the topic.
    oohh boy.....
    Ok, to start off, I love the changes for WIN1. That voice gives me goosebumps.
    I like what you all did with the dair. Makes the move less spammable.

    but......why did you add the Transcendent property to Glide Attack and Drill Rush? I love playing meta knight. He's been my main since 4.0b, but even I can admit that his Side b was stupidly powerful. I wouldn't mind transcendence being added in addition to it being slowed down or having less knockback or something. Also, why doesn't Pit get transcendence on his Glide Attack? He could actually benefit from it since his Glide Attack KO's earlier than his aerial side special. Only problem is he lacks the range for the move to connect reliably. MK's glide attack goes significantly farther than Pit's and is a great KO move as is. I'm not mad; I'm just confused as to what the mindset for this was.
    So I guess that means you can no longer do this...
    You guys actually listened! Thank you!
    Finally! Pit no longer has a "gimpable" recovery!
    Dair is no longer a useless move. Awesome.

    "Ivysaur and its foe." :waluigi::waluigi::waluigi:
    8 jumps?....8??
    Is this the change log for version 3.Q? It's a cool buff, seems like a bad idea.
    Good. F*** that move.

    lol :wario:
    I can't wait to play the new version. I think you guys did a great job! :nesmk:
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  4. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Looks great! I'm sad that Ike's uair didn't get buffed (even just as a recovery option), and I'm a bit surprised you didn't nerf Dragon Rush, but I approve of everything else.

    Here are my favorites:
    • New modes
    • Powershield is good again
    • Both players can set controls at the same time
    • Quick Draw -> taunt
    • Final Cutter pulls foes in
    • Mario spins endlessly in midair
    • Drill Rush can be stuffed easier
    • Mewtwo's uair and utilt don't kill as early
    • You can cancel Peach Bomber into specials besides Toad
    • Jigglypuff rules the air again
    • Sheik's Transform is B-reversable
    • Sonic's dash attack's final hitbox no longer lasts forever
    • Wario's bair would no longer win
    • Wolf no longer recovers for free
    • Yoshi jumps out of shield
    • Yoshi can no longer grab you from halfway across the stage with no warning
    • Zelda's Transform is also B-reversable
    • Final Frustration now has proper music
    I only regret that I have but one like to give to this changelog.


    If you're going to be pedantic, get it right.
  5. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

    B- FC:
    It's just a joke. I had no sleep the night before and I don't usually slip up on grammar.

    But hey! you actually bothered to look at my post, which means you care. Thanks! :D
  6. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Muphry's Law: "If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written."

    (I'm not sure what the fault is in my post above, but I know there is one. There has to be. It's the law.)
  7. Fivavoa

    Fivavoa Uwaaaaa~~! Playtester

    B- FC:
    Yay for a new version!

    I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this, I tried to push for this I really did but I guess they didn't really want to bother, at least for this version.
    Dusk likes this.
  8. unrelatedisme123

    unrelatedisme123 Minusaur Playtester

    Irving, TX
    B- FC:
    I agree too, rather than the LGL, I wish they had just given the 2 frame they gave Mewtwo to everyone.
  9. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

    Minnesota (for summer), UIUC (for school year)
    B- FC:
    Not sure why there's such a push against auto-snap ledges... the game is called "Brawl Minus" and not "Melee Minus" or "Project M Minus" for a reason.

    [Mewtwo would still be able to abuse non-auto-snap ledges anyway, and I'd think y'all would know this if you'd watched Emukiller play PM in 3.02...]

    Frankly, removing autosnap ledges would require even more balance reworking... Falco just spamming dair at the edge would go from somewhat obnoxious to a legitimate and really annoying edgeguard strategy, because he doesn't just rocket downward like in Melee/PM >_> (the option is no less rewarding but much much less riskier with how he works in Minus).

    Not a fan of everything, but I like most of it and some changes are quite interesting. Looking forward to playing with 4.1!
  10. alaserdolphin

    alaserdolphin New Member

    *Excitedly looks for Jiggs and ICs changes*

    Jiggs's changes are nice; nothing spectacular, and the jumps honestly aren't going to be broken. For recovery, if you don't get back on stage, and weren't being heavily edgeguarded, you should be thinking about your gameplay. I don't see it listed, but was her taunt fixed to work in both directions now?

    ICs's double block I always considered intentional in the same way mario has his double fireball. You can create a really specific lock on any stage with a wall using them, but it needs to be carefully executed and still has no change on any legal stage. Given how bad they already are, I don't see this being needed, even if it was unintentional originally.

    Peach Bomber being finally fixed is wonderful.

    Ike's taunt is a really nice touch; I'm hoping it meteors.

    Bowser had no notable nerfs; Neutral B having armor whilst on the ground and also in the air is degenerate on smaller stages if you ask me. Maybe change it to heavy armor or even light armor? If the latter, I think it's fair to make the shell invincible during the move to compensate.

    Thank the based gods for the Sneaky Snek and Ivysaur updates.

    Ganondorf Nair now combo move again? Pray to thine Minus Backroom for this beautiful harvest.
  11. player_03

    player_03 P3

    Royal Rampage only grabs grounded foes, making it incredibly easy to punish.

  12. alaserdolphin

    alaserdolphin New Member

    TIL that's a thing. So I guess Bowser is easily counterpicked by command grab characters and quasi-hovering characters. That being acknowledged, stage picking something like Lavender Town and spamming short hop -> Rampage against anyone else in the cast requires a lot of footsies just to not get hit, and provides not a lot of room to punish.
  13. Neville

    Neville GG M8s Minus Backroom

    Highland Village, Texas
    Ike's uair kills at 80 on most characters, beats nearly every hitbox above him, and can be combo'd into. Also his recovery did get buffed.
  14. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

    B- FC:
    Don't be too grateful for this -- all they did was increase the size of Pichu's head HurtBox a little, and not as much as I suggested.
    No 25% overall size increase like I recommended. Pichu is still way too small.
    Plenty of attacks still miss or don't work properly against it when it's simply standing still.

    Pichu's canon size should not be the most important factor when balancing a fighting game.
    Look to Melee for to see how Pichu's size should be balanced.
    Yes, I'm quite disappointed that all of that work and testing I did to find the best new size for Pichu was effectively shrugged off by the Devs.
    The 25% size increase was important. :/


    I think he just wanted the old Ikecopter vertical flight distance back. I miss that too.

    On a different note, anyone else notice the new SFX on Peach and Yoshi? > . >
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    AGentleStar likes this.
  15. My Man

    My Man New Member

    So many good fixes in this, but I'm scared to see how Wario's air game will be. Thanks to everyone on the team!
  16. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

    Minnesota (for summer), UIUC (for school year)
    B- FC:
    I thought I was just really lucky when I would use aerial side+b to grab Bowser out of that move... didn't know this was a legitimate counterplay strategy LOL

    Sounds like ZSS uair :^) :^) :^)

    Old Ikecopter is fun and it's probably not *ridiculously overpowered* to give to Ike, but probably makes him feel more obnoxious to fight against... that's my guess for it being left out, as I don't think Ike would become truly top tier/broken when he still seems like he'd have basic frame data issues vs some other top tiers, as well as a mediocre recovery when he's not recovering high.
  17. player_03

    player_03 P3

    After some more testing, I discovered two things: the fire around Bowser now deals damage, and Bowser can grab some characters out of the air if they're attacking. He's more likely to be able to grab someone out of a regular attack than a special, but that isn't a hard rule: he can grab Meta Knight out of all four of his specials.

    Everyone has at least one easy answer to Royal Rampage.

    By character:
    • Mario: Cape.
    • Peach: hover and attack.
    • DK: full hop -> fair -> fair.
    • Waluigi: short hop -> dair. Land well behind him or he'll grab you.
    • Waluigi: full hop -> dair. Get the timing right and you'll bury him.
    • Link, Toon Link: full hop -> dair.
    • Sheik: full hop -> dair -> jump. (You can jump cancel dair after it hits.)
    • Samus: short hop -> Power Bomb.
    • ZSS: Flip Jump. Flip Jump has invincibility frames but doesn't lead to easy follow ups, so use it if it's too late for anything else.
    • Ness: short hop -> PK Fire. You aren't in much danger as long as you land behind Bowser, so take the time to aim PK Fire at where he's going to stop.
    • Lucas: if you have time, launch a PK Freeze before jumping.
    • Lucas, Dedede: full hop -> dair -> land behind Bowser. Depending on your positioning, Bowser may attempt to grab you, but as long as you jumped high enough before starting dair, he'll whiff the grab. However, whiffing a grab gives him extra armor, so it's better if you can avoid that entirely.
    • Jigglypuff: jump -> Rollout -> anything. Just make sure you charge Rollout enough that it bounces off him.
    • Jigglypuff: jump -> Sing.
    • Squirtle: full hop -> Hydro Pump. If you follow Bowser and time it right, you can reliably freeze him.
    • Ivysaur: jump -> dair. Between the sweetspot buff and Bowser's size, it's hard to miss.
    • Meta Knight: Drill Rush. This only works if you start on the ground and angle it upwards. Also, there's a lot of startup lag, during which Bowser can grab you.
    • Fox: short hop -> Fox Phantasm -> attack.
    • Falco: short hop -> Falco Phantasm.
    • Wolf: Wolf Flash.
    • Falcon: full hop -> Raptor Boost.
    • R.O.B.: Arm Rotor -> bair.
    • Pit: Mirror Shield -> Angel Ring -> grab. Bowser will turn around and whiff a grab when the fire around him hits your shield, giving you time to put it away and punish. Note that if Bowser manages to start a Whirling Fortress, that will block Angel Ring, so you might just want to grab. (You can grab Bowser out of Whirling Fortress.)
    • Olimar: jump away and stick red Pikmin on him. (The fire will block all other types. Even purple.)
    • Snake: short hop and stick some C4 on him.
    • Sonic: full hop -> Bounce Attack -> Bounce Attack.
    • Sonic: jump and Spring Jump. Worst case is he takes a little damage and you take none. Best case is you start a combo.
    • Everyone with a command grab: command grab. Your grab will beat his whether or not you jump first. However, jumping is safer in Ivysaur's case, since Ivysaur rushes forwards before the grab comes out.

    Now for what everyone can do:
    • Grab. ZSS has it easiest, followed by others with tether grabs, followed by characters with good reach, like Zelda and Marth. However, everyone can do it with good enough timing, even the Ice Climbers.
    • Short hop -> don't attack -> land behind him -> punish.

    I was talking about this request, not a buff to the move's power.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  18. Neville

    Neville GG M8s Minus Backroom

    Highland Village, Texas
    Also Royal rampage isn't supposed to be used in neutral it's a tech read/hard read option.
    Thor likes this.
  19. armadi11o

    armadi11o New Member

    NEW VERSION! As soon as I heard I ran to my laptop and downloaded right away! Was Game and Watch not changed? Where is its changelog?
  20. ThePwnzr

    ThePwnzr THE Frame Data Guy Minus Backroom

    There are a few changes that weren't documented by this changelog. I'm not going to point any fingers as to who's fault that is, but I'm casually going to compile a list of true changes from 4.0BC to 4.1. ....Eventually.
  21. Rejnka

    Rejnka Certified All-Natural Pinkan Berry Saleschu

    This version seems like it'll be good. A bit sad that powershielding is a thing, but eh, no such thing as a perfect game. Major good things:

    Blast Burn in the air is no longer a suicide button!

    Kirby's Final Cutter can into combos now, apparently? Will probably use that a lot.

    ZSS's final smash actually works, so that's one more mode I can actually progress in. Maybe.
  22. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

    My House
    B- FC:
    It seems we got some more missing stuff.
    Things that happened in 4.1

    • Yoshi Foot doesn't have the electric sound or Yoshi's "Yoshi!" when it hits.
    • Tink's bombs go through people causing damage as a projectile and not an explosion.
    • Samus' Down B does the vBrawl SFX for morphing into a ball.
    • ZSS no longer says, "Be still." when she does D-Throw.
    • ZSS D-Taunt can be cancelled before saying, "Mine."
    • Ike doesn't say, "Prepare yourself," when Eruption fully charges.
    • Ike's Side Taunt is now vBrawl instead of "I fight for my friends," and "You'll get no sympathy from me."
    • Why is Fox's fire pink.
    • Why is Falco's fire purple.
    • What happened to Tink's bombs?
    • Kirby loses Copy Ability when All-Star opponent changes (apparently).
    • Wolf's Victory and Losing Anims have been reverted to vBrawl.
    • Falco's Victory and Losing anims have been reverted to vBrawl.
    • Mario's victory and losing anims have been reverted to vBrawl.
    • Zelda's victory and losing anims have been reverted to vBrawl.
    • Snake no longer throws his box onto the loser on the victory screen.
    • Link's losing anim has been reverted to vBrawl.
    • There's a sound effect when Falcon wins that says, "Alright! First place!" that overlaps the victory screen announcement.
    • Wolf no longer says, "Weaklings" or "Playtime's over" when D-Taunting.
    • Wolf's entry no longer says, "Playtime's over, Star Fox."
    • Peach no longer thinks F-Throwing you is fun.
    Thor, Pin Clock and player_03 like this.
  23. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

    Crimea, Tellius
    I like how no minus dev has addressed the inconsistency of Pin saying Ike wouldnt lose certain things, and then they were removed anyway (dodging out of qd), and how using grounded specials out of qd was possible regardless of nsm, yet it was removed despite not being in rhe changelog in which it was removed.

    I like the changes he's received, and at this point dont mind if the things I mention dont return, I jusy think it's unprofessional to not only go back on your word, but also to neglect acknowledgement of such and address it as is. The only reason I mention this so much is because Pin himself told me what to expect, and then didnt deliver on these things.

    Other than that, I'm enjoying all the changes as they are. :D
  24. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

    Trust me when I saw a lot of this version and its changelog inconsistancies are not my fault. Next version the changelog will be 100% accurate.

    I forget if I asked before, but what version was it possible for Ike to do those things mentioned?
    Jeffrey likes this.
  25. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

    Crimea, Tellius
    The patch before Ike's NSM was removed, he was able to perform grounded specials out of QD even without NSM active. I believe in the oatch for BC, the ability to shield out of QD was removed "to disallow spot dodges" but rolls were adversely affected as well. If there were a way to make it so that at least rolls would be possible, that would be nice.

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