Brawl Minus 3.3 is BACK!

Other Aether

Mediator
So no advice on how to fix Blast Burn?
I agree that pixel art would take a long time to recolor, but seriously, it seems like the portraits could at least have... Proper proportions, eg diddy is HIDEOUS. I'd rather have incredible CSPs like in 1.01 than cool-looking costumes. Project M already outdoes Brawl- with the "bonus costumes" such as Dry Bowser, Shadow Queen Peach, K. Rool DK, Butterfly MK, etc. I think Brawl- is better off keeping what it clearly excels at rather than trying to compete with things that already beat it.
 

Lightning

Ikesexual
So no advice on how to fix Blast Burn?
I agree that pixel art would take a long time to recolor, but seriously, it seems like the portraits could at least have... Proper proportions, eg diddy is HIDEOUS. I'd rather have incredible CSPs like in 1.01 than cool-looking costumes. Project M already outdoes Brawl- with the "bonus costumes" such as Dry Bowser, Shadow Queen Peach, K. Rool DK, Butterfly MK, etc. I think Brawl- is better off keeping what it clearly excels at rather than trying to compete with things that already beat it.
I personally like the portraits. I just don't like the CSS icons..
Charizard needs I think either the common3 or the common4 as well as his .pac I suggest trying both and see if either does the trick.
 

Sammi-husky

Scientist #1
Minus Backroom
The first FD is the real one. In case you hadn't noticed the Melee FD is a joke stage called final fraustration.

The old pixel art was not replicable as we are likely adding cBliss next update. Meaning on average we would need to double the amount the csp's.

As far as i know, no original stages had many SIGNIFICANT changes especially the original FD.

if you hate the new portraits that badly, you obviously haven't seen the older portraits that minus used( http://i.imgur.com/2U26hVE.png ). I would also like to point out that we included a vBrawl portraits common5 in each download.
if you want the old portraits that bad, it's gonna be more difficult then just replacing them. as hovering over pichu will freeze.

i would also like to point out that we tried our very best to get this update out in a timely fashion for you all. Pichu himself is only a BASE for us to improve upon. Aether, Instead of saying how much you hate this update that we worked on for these past months, i would appreciate it if you express your discontent and then state what we could do to make it better.
 

Other Aether

Mediator
I personally like the portraits. I just don't like the CSS icons..
Charizard needs I think either the common3 or the common4 as well as his .pac I suggest trying both and see if either does the trick.
By his .pac you mean his pf\fighter\pokelizardon\ files, right? I already tried all of the above (and tried them again for good measure) and they don't work. Still getting invisible fireballs.
I'm sorry if I offended you. I Isimply meant I disliked the update, my exasperation being partly a product of my compound frustration since my internet takes 18 hours to download the files, then I find that the update is glitchy and I have to redownload them. I really don't hate the new portraits, I just love the old ones and don't want them gone. I never said I disliked Pichu either. This "original fd" does not seem to exist for me. Seriously, I've looked all over and can't find it. It's not in the \stages\, it's not on the SSS, unless it's named wrong it's not there.
Let's put it this way.
I love (most) of the character changes.
I think the new costumes are cool.
I'm DON'T like stage and menu changes.
I don't like all the bugginess and frustration (I'm aware that new updates are usually buggy, but it's still very annoying).
Until everything is sorted out and is less glitchy, I'm going back to v1.01. I was posting mostly to ask how to transfer Blast Burn to v1.01, since it's the only change I want (besides Pichu) that I can't seem to transfer.
Any advice I could give you to make it better really wouldn't be helpful, but I'll try. I'd prefer focus on metagame changes rather than aesthetics. The art was already top-notch and didn't need any changes-"if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The metagame had some balancing issues (Olimar was spammy, ICs were UP, NSM was OP, etc). All of these things are things that got addressed. Yay. Now, I think focus on making the metagame more minus-y is in order. A lot of characters, such as Marth (don't get me wrong-I love Marth) feel relatively bland. He has no huge, destructive attacks. He can't zip around at the speed of light or anything like that. Characters like him could use changes. Maybe HE could get No Sympathy mode. All around, the metagame doesn't feel quite ludicrous enough. What did Diddy Kong get? In vBrawl, he can dominate the stage and create virtually impassable walls (I competitively main him, I'd know). In Brawl-, he got sweet buffs. But, other minus characters are so strong that they can just charge through his banana walls and beat him up. I want focus put on these characters, so everyone is up to the level of Lucario and Dedede.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
I don't get why characters like 'Dorf and Ike are being nerfed when there are other more powerful characters that need nerfs more. If you're gonna nerf anybody, hit the top tiers first and hardest. 'Dorf and Ike are having their options removed, while top tiers like R.O.B. and Dedede have options out the...

What happened to "If It's Broken, Break It Until It's Fixed"... It's more like "If It's Broken, Nerf It Until It's Fixed*" now. :/

* Top tiers excluded!
 
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Glyph

Moderator
Dorf was buffed on a competitive level, and Ike was nerfed on the same logic that ROB's multilaser was. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I think I'm pretty safe in saying those two won't be going back to EXACTLY how they were.

Other Aether, I'm gunna PM you when I get home because I have a lot of questions for you.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Dorf was buffed on a competitive level, and Ike was nerfed on the same logic that ROB's multilaser was. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I think I'm pretty safe in saying those two won't be going back to EXACTLY how they were.
'Dorf was nerfed. Warlock Punch could already break shields, you just had to be ready to spot dodge or roll to save yourself. No buffs there.

Ike's No Sympathy Mode wasn't anywhere near as cheap and OP as R.O.B.'s Multilaser. Eruption itself should have been weakened, or Ike should have been made to lose his charge when he gets K.O.ed. Instead the whole mode got nuked.
 

Smilindeth

Well-Known Member
I like the Ganon change. More fun as an offensive play style than sit there and wait for the other to maybe come get you, then do a strong attack immediately out of a 1-hit KO move. Also better to kill someone in one punch than having to punch them two or three times (Three if perfect shielded the first punch, which leads to a stun state with shield up).
Ike's feels like he is getting into the heat of battle and powering up. Also removed the "I countered, now we get to sit here and wait since I don't feel like erupting."

I feel like both changes just bring up anger since we were spoiled with something OP introduced before balance became a bigger focus. I'm the same way with Olimar since I LOVED Solimar and lazy pikmen in 2.X.

As for a bug reports, as of the April 24th early afternoon version, when someone wins the match, another player frequently has their character changed to match the winner's.
Example: Bowser and Snake fight, Snake wins, when back at CSS both players are now Snake though the Bowser didn't switch off.
Also due to the stage expansion system, random select of stages will ignore some stages that are on, and loves picking ones that are off.
 

Lightning

Ikesexual
By his .pac you mean his pf\fighter\pokelizardon\ files, right? I already tried all of the above (and tried them again for good measure) and they don't work. Still getting invisible fireballs.
I'm not entirely sure why that didn't work..

I'd prefer focus on metagame changes rather than aesthetics. The art was already top-notch and didn't need any changes-"if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Let's put it this way: The old CSS and CSPs were not created for Minus. They were created for Project M. The Minus team doesn't like using something that isn't theirs, so they simply created new ones..
 

Other Aether

Mediator
Let's put it this way: The old CSS and CSPs were not created for Minus. They were created for Project M. The Minus team doesn't like using something that isn't theirs, so they simply created new ones..
Ooooh. That makes sense. I thought they were made for minus.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Random comments and a laundry list about Falco at the end [just from reading the changelog]:

I liked the Max 1.0 art for the CSS and stuff...

The Warlock Punch is actually a bit safer in FFAs (no more accidentally hitting a shield when you try to land it).

I miss cave of life in Dialga stage - that was the whole point of picking Spear Pillar unless you wanted a competitive match w/ Palkia (Cresselia format was the worst).

Fast Thunderbrand was awesome. I miss it.

Thank you for removing burial from Bowser's dthrow- teching it in lag is hell... (Actually teching it in general seemed super finnikcy... not sure I ever figured it out).

I never thought DK healing was actually that bad, even when I fought Gold_TSG... if someone wants to explain how bad this is, go ahead (maybe the issue was that I often played Falco, so a laser barrage usually offset the issue, via laser damage or a grab).

Cool Wario buffs/changes.

Never faced a good Sheik but I've heard Sheik is almost as good as Lucario, so I guess damage and knockback nerfs on her best KO moves is a good thing.

Wait ZSS can double jump -> down+b -> double jump? Awesome!

Thanks for the ICs change - admittedly, isn't it still possible they fall out of range, or does she just basically sit on the lower blastline until Popo dies or she's called back?

Falco rant: Small thing first - I liked him speaking. If you could reimplement it so he starts speaking immediately on FireBird startup (and lengthened startup slightly if necessary so he launches on FIRE!) that would be fantastic. The startup reduction is appreciated.

But the problem I have with Falco is that I read somewhere that he's supposed to be able to Pillar (which is a misnomer - Pillaring is strictly on-shield, but I'll run with it), but it's easier for him to Pillar in Melee than in Brawl-, despite the higher hitstun. Why? 3 words: jump cancelled shine. In Melee he could [almost] immediately rise out of shine to land a dair or bair and keep things moving. But utilt, usmash, and dtilt in this game have enough endlag that they are much less suited for Falco to use dair combos, at least from what I've seen (I've yet to see a Falco video where Falco lands 3 dairs and 3 grounded attacks that launch upwards as a string). His combo ability also feels somewhat weak, given that he doesn't seem to have as many silly movement tricks or disjoints as a lot of characters, outside of grounded side+b into attacks [I often feel like I'm playing a zoning and poking game with Falco because his safest approaches need lasers to be out]. Thus, my Falco suggestions and reasoning (if all were implemented, he might become maybe too good in some eyes - I'd like to see like 2 of these, maybe more but I'd be content with two):

- Reflector hitbox on the way out is an unconventional meteor smash (maybe with fixed knockback)

Then it can't edgeguard meteor, but Falco can get a combo started off a grounded reflector (for those who don't know, an unconventional meteor smash is a meteor smash that only has a meteor angle while the opponent is grounded - Snake ftilt1 is an example).

- Utilt, dair, OR usmash jump-cancellable [maybe just on hit] (dtilt with extra base knockback too, if that's the jump-cancel) [this is 4 things]

Melee Falco's best way to start his dair combos was shine because of its incredible jump-cancel that let it be relatively safe on block and very easy to follow up on. His utilt also had very low endlag so that it was also easy to follow up on. Adding a jump-cancel to just one of these moves will let Falco do his dair combos much more reliably, but note they are still not as safe as the original shine because you can't jump in to do these (ie SH shine them) and they aren't frame one, so this shouldn't break Falco but will improve his combo game significantly. If people are really worried this would be too safe, just making the cancel on-hit would still be very helpful.

I have ideas for other changes too, but I get the feeling they might cause other issues and this would still be very appreciated.

Falcon Punch hits connect better? YESZ!

Pikachu has a longer meteor cancel? Hm... reflecting Thunder is more rewarding? This change is interesting, but I guess Pikachu's recovery is strong...

Thanks for Leaf Storm nerfs [sort of... did you increase the knockback? I don't read code well...] Admittedly, being able to up+B out of it makes it a lot safer... Can she not DI as in move or DI as in Fox usmash will always send her on its intended angle if hit out of it too?

Blast Burn = awesome.

Lucario nerfs and Jiggs rest fix = cool [although I think the fsmash nerf is negligible and dtilt only seemed to KO past 150%, so not sure how bad the nerf is]. Same for Marth changes.

Ike = : ( I posted elsewhere on that.

Ness = whatever [didn't care either way about bat mode.]

Thanks for Chef fix, though I had figured the point of old bucket was OHKO if they put a powerful projectile in. I'll miss that functionality.

Thanks for Pichu. PM devs need to step it up!

Thanks for fixing New Pork City. The old one was terrible (though a properly spaced Ganon side+b could actually KO someone off the left thanks to odd iceberg properties w/out KOing Ganon). As mentioned earlier, I miss Dialga Spear Pillar.

EDIT: After messing around with Falco, his combo ability is stronger than I gave him credit for, I just need to practice more with rapid jumping. It still doesn't feel as reliable as Melee Falco's dair combos though.
 
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DubLTeamz

Master of Arbitrary Opnions
Put the new GCT file in, and Pichu STILL crashes the match results screen.

Is there a change log somewhere? It used to be on the original page, but I can't find it now.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
I miss cave of life in Dialga stage - that was the whole point of picking Spear Pillar unless you wanted a competitive match w/ Palkia (Cresselia format was the worst).

Fast Thunderbrand was awesome. I miss it.

Thank you for removing burial from Bowser's dthrow- teching it in lag is hell... (Actually teching it in general seemed super finnikcy... not sure I ever figured it out).

I never thought DK healing was actually that bad, even when I fought Gold_TSG... if someone wants to explain how bad this is, go ahead.

Falcon Punch hits connect better? YESZ!

Blast Burn = awesome.

Lucario nerfs and rest fix = cool. Same for Marth changes.

Ike = : ( I posted elsewhere on that.

Ness = whatever [didn't care either way about bat mode.]

Thanks for Chef fix, though I had figured the point of old bucket was OHKO if they put a powerful projectile in. I'll miss that functionality.

Thanks for Pichu.

Thanks for fixing New Pork City.
I agree with all that. I don't agree with this, though:
Falco: I liked him speaking. If you could reimplement it so he starts speaking immediately on FireBird startup (and lengthened startup slightly if necessary so he launches on FIRE!) that would be fantastic.

"Personally, I prefer" Falco to keep quiet, or to just say "Fire!" Hearing the whole line several times per match gets old.

Same thing goes for Lucario's "It's over".
 
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?0123456789?

Well-Known Member
So is there a 3.3 build that so far has had no crashes? Every build I have had freezes at some point. I'm getting kinda tired of downloading multiple files that don't end up working, sorry to say. Also, which link generally has the latest download, is it the facebook page, this thread, or the download page off of the home page?
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
For me, it crashed first (or rather, never loaded at all), but then I copied the contents of Brawl Minus 3.3 to my SDI after extracting instead of extracting straight to the card and it worked. I doubt that's your problem though.
 

NEWB

Well-Known Member
God dammit... Can anyone solve this riddle?

Magic drags don't work without the new gct pin put up. But that gct doesn't have the sdhc code turned on.....

Without a txt file, that gct is useless to me....

Does anyone have a working patch for this screw. Screw the release! Turn on the sdhc code and post your setup please!

Why would you ever have that code off in the first place?
 

Sammi-husky

Scientist #1
Minus Backroom
Oh something that may or may have not been in the changelog was that previously in 1.01 lucario can chaingrab you if he is below 80% and has normal force palm. The reason being he could force-palm, immediatly force palm again and the STUN would hold them there long enough to run up and grab him again, then rise wash repeat. Something maybe not alot of people knew about since i don't know a ton of lucario mains here other then me~

Also, Aether i understand your frustration bro. No worries. The old aesthetics (while looking good to us) didn't WOW anybody who was a first-comer to minus, or make a good impression to the competitive smash community. Most people outside of minus think its a joke mod (google brawl Minus :( ) which is why all these balance and aesthetic changes are being made. We want to start polishing the mod to be more appealing to the competitive player while keeping the spirit of minus. Obviously, we cannot accomplish that all in one update. Just bare with us while we work through the kinks :) I can't really say much about transferring zard to 1.01. All you SHOULD need is the fitPokeTrainerEff file from poketrainer's fighter folder, as well as zards new moveset and motionEtc from his folder.

God dammit... Can anyone solve this riddle?

Magic drags don't work without the new gct pin put up. But that gct doesn't have the sdhc code turned on.....

Without a txt file, that gct is useless to me....

Does anyone have a working patch for this screw. Screw the release! Turn on the sdhc code and post your setup please!

Why would you ever have that code off in the first place?

Newb, sorry for the confusion. We decided to turn off the code to avoid confusion like this. Im not sure why a txt wasn't released with the hotpatch, however the magic dragons issue should only be caused by zelda having a fitMotionEtc.pac file in her folder. If thats there, try getting rid of it.
 

Smilindeth

Well-Known Member
NEWB, try my method for adding codes.
Get the GCTEditor.jar, open up the gct you want to add stuff to, export to .txt (Say no to separating known codes), close it, add your codes to the bottom of the block, save, open that .txt with GCTEditor, and export to .gct
Bit of a pain, but has yet to fail.
 

Other Aether

Mediator
Also, Aether i understand your frustration bro. No worries. The old aesthetics (while looking good to us) didn't WOW anybody who was a first-comer to minus, or make a good impression to the competitive smash community. Most people outside of minus think its a joke mod (google brawl Minus :( ) which is why all these balance and aesthetic changes are being made. We want to start polishing the mod to be more appealing to the competitive player while keeping the spirit of minus. Obviously, we cannot accomplish that all in one update. Just bare with us while we work through the kinks :) I can't really say much about transferring zard to 1.01. All you SHOULD need is the fitPokeTrainerEff file from poketrainer's fighter folder, as well as zards new moveset and motionEtc from his folder.
Oh! I forgot to take the poketrainer folder XD thanks!
And I just want you to know, that old art REALLY wowed me (and my brother) when we first booted up the game. That's exactly the kind of art I like. He was skeptical of brawl mods and I wasn't sure whether I'd like minus or project m, but that art put brawl- a fair ways ahead of P:M for me. The main difference for me to be honest is AI. 95% of the time I have no one to play with, and Project M AI plays a lot like a human. Brawl- is amazing, and I love the ludicrous over-the-top feel that Brawl- has. I just wish that feel was present with all characters, instead of just the top ~10.
 

?0123456789?

Well-Known Member
This thread and Facebook are both the latest downloads. We haven't had any major crashes with this one so we'll be holding on to this release.

Do they have everything I need to play Brawl Minus all together ready to go or do I need to add something from elsewhere or remove anything?
 

Overseer

Member
I'm confused.
Is this SDHC compatible or not?
If so, what should I download to make it so? I read that there's a GCT that works? Where is that?
I don't mean to sound so needy, but I really want to play this update and I too am tired of redownloading multiple times to no avail.


Also, I personally like pretty much all of the changes. Especially the art. I'm surprised more people didn't realize that the pixel art was not made for Minus. Those pixel portraits are incredibly popular pretty much everywhere, and I've seen them a few times before I even played Minus.
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
About 'Dorf's Warlock Punch...
How about a compromise? Leave grounded Warlock Punch the way it is in MAX 3.3, but revert the aerial version back to its MAX 1.01 form.

That way, 'Dorf could do an offstage Warlock Punch and actually make it back to the stage afterward.

If you're gonna make it simply a stronger, slower Falcon Punch, might as well let him do it aerially with style, like Falcon can.
And next update, can you remove Snake's ability to walljump while using the Cypher? It's too easy to walljump off the edge to your doom as you're recovering. Also, Ganondorf can gimp Snake's Cypher recovery incredibly easily with his Up-B... Any workaround for that on Snake's end?
 
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