Meta knight!

[Gold_TSG]

The only point of my original thing was that I felt he didn't need 4 means of recovery, regardless of how they currently fare. What I was trying to say was, like the changes to his jab, usmash and fsmash, perhaps one or two of his specials could be changed to be something OTHER THAN a recovery option. His side B cancels into grabs on the ground and aerials in the air, as such giving him the option of doing more recovering. Same goes for his tornado. Cancel it, use another recovery. Why is it that he can't have more use out of his specials than that? Tornado serves almost no purpose because it knocks people out of it, thus taking the multi-hit nature of the move out of usefulness territory. My suggestion for that was making it either immobile or limited in mobility, giving it the hits back, and NOT make it smack people out, thus turning it into something of similarity to TL's up B, minus the mobility. He has always been a great character, but that doesn't mean he can't be better AND balanced in a more unique way besides making him do virtually no damage on all his moves, labeling him a comboer and calling it a day.

 

[NEWB]

Mach tornado is a chasing move now. Maybe the way it hits people can be adjusted, but I like the move as is. The idea is to use the move to go towards some one and cancel into an aerial. MK can't move very fast in the air, and this move really helps him get his aerials in and to follow up with his other combos.

 

[Gold_TSG]

It can also be seen a mile away and no longer has omnipotent priority. Drill rush is better as a chase cause it actually cancels into a near-guaranteed aerial.

 

[NEWB]

That's if you connect with drill rush in the first place.

It isn't used to chase a great distance either. You use it to catch people that are trying to avoid you AFTER you manage to hit him. Like you catch them trying to roll or tech away from you. It is a very useful mobility tool.

 

[justadood]

If it's mainly to be used as a chase tool anyway and it still seems cheap, then maybe if it was just a little smaller it would work?... I'd suggest maybe making the cape a counter instead, although that would be changing the move in more ways than just recovery ...but the drill rush seems perfect and almost iconic the way it is now... if possible, I'd like to be able to make it come out faster if you're dashing so it can be used as an alt dash attack and use the grab it connects into.... or maybe make it able to do a special grab that works in the air too, similar to falcon/ganon's upB where you don't fall while holding them... i think I also suggested something like this to replace charizard's downB in air, but make him able to glide while carrying them, like seismic toss in the show... or I guess more like skydrop... but metaknight's shouldn't be able to glide with them since he's so small, but it would be cool if eventually almost all characters could do special grabs in the air

 

[NEWB]

I agree with airgrabs being a cool concept.

I also think the lock on the buffs thread was unnecessary. As much as I agree about things the devs said, there is NO reason why falcon shouldn't be able to cancel side taunt into a roll or just anything. Fire sheild would have also been very situational. I would rather it didn't reflect and just broke projectiles like Ganon's sword. Just saying. Bents not the only one being a little silly. Neither of these even really classify as buffs for Christs sake! It looks more like the devs are being stingy. If the problem is coding the taunt and you guys are pressed for time, then just say so! Jeez!

This topic is for meta knight.

 

[Pin Clock]

Thread was locked due to being reported for flaming and it started to get more personal rather than about Falcon.

in addition, there is already a thread in regards to Falcon's side taunt.

Falcon doesn't need this as a tool or an option, and sometimes it may be hard to see, but the main reason we aren't coding the taunt isn't due to time or constraints, but because we believe the taunt is and should be seen as a joke. It is not something Falcon should ever actually use or even think of using. We have no interest in further reducing Falcon's weaknesses by making it into a viable option, as he is already an extremely solid character with plenty of options, most notably a projectile immune Raptor Boost. Marth and Ike would kill for a projectile immune approach like that. Captain Falcon excels at close range, approaching, comboing, and kneeing. Being slightly weak to projectiles should not be considered a problem and should instead be something Falcon should focus on playing around.

Any further posts about this should be kept or will be moved to the topic that was made for it. This topic is about Meta Knight.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Is there any hope that MK's fthrow can have the beam sword removed? It puts him at a disadvantage and literally leaves him with two throws that don't kill him in most situations.

 

[NEWB]

And his fthrow has been discussed. It's useful because it sends the foe on a semispike trajectory, way offstage and below fd for instance. This puts MK at a huge advantage.

You shouldn't be doing this throw at low percents. Use back throw for positioning and stage control and down throw to rack up damage. Holding b when doing down throw cancels into shuttle loop.

Beam sword mix ups are very predictable. The beam sword itself has range, but very laggy attacks. The foe will usually throw it, and that is predictable. It's not hard to airdodge and catch it or to do an aerial and catch it. It's easy enough just to sheild it to.

Also the people I tell it to think that it is an awesome reference. No one has made an effort to point out that they hate it.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I didn't even know holding B cancels into loop. D:

 

[NEWB]

Yeah.... It links properly and everything. It was a change introduced in the beta *_*

 

[Gold_TSG]

See this is why every changelog should contain everything available for every character. I'm STILL discovering things...

 

[NEWB]

I'm currently editing the brawl minus page on smash wiki. Much of the changes are there now. I mean there aren't a whole lot specifics when it comes to frames, but the inputs I'm working on outting them all in. All that I know that is.

 

[Bent 00]

All of the following post is about Captain Falcon. It's only posted here because the posts it responds to are from here.

It is also posted in this relevant topic.

Spoiler

Just for the record Newb, It's literally 2 lines of code in his file.

That's all? Would you please teach me how to edit it myself, or link me to a good tutorial? I could test my suggestions before I post them then...

It's not that we don't want to code it, and we aren't being stingy.

So you're not against idea of buffing Falcon's taunts a little, but you don't want to give even small buffs to characters who don't really need them. Is that right?

This update is an update thats polishing and making everything look more professional, removing unnecessary things that didn't need to be there to make the game less 'Brawl Vault like'.

The only thing I really wanted to see removed from MAX 1.01 was Mario's Metal Cap taunt. Everything else felt good and Minus-y to me... I'm sad to hear the YOSHIFOOT is getting the boot (heh), and DK's "shaking off damage" taunt made sense to me because he's such a big target / damage sponge.

I'm worried that the currently low-tier characters are bringing down the higher-tier characters by keeping them from being reaching their maximum Minus potential. Characters like R.O.B. and Lucario aren't hurt as much as "B" Tier characters like Falcon, who are prevented from rising to "A" Tier just because they're "good enough".

I think features should only be removed if they're harming the balance, gameplay, or overall fun of Minus. If they just don't make sense, consider how fun they are to use, and how much the players like them before you remove them. Those latter two things are more important than just "making sense" -- leave that to vanilla Brawl and Project M.

Adding something like a second useful taunt to him is rather unnecessary.

Did you see my two newest suggestions in the Falcon Side Taunt thread? I think those two changes would be quite balanced.

Also, it may be unnecessary, but it would be cool, it would fit the theme of Minus well, and at least 5 other characters each have two taunts that are useful:

Jigglypuff (Gravity and Deflate*)
Link (Mortal Draw and possibly upcoming Fairy taunt replacement)
Lucario (ULTRATAUNT and Power-up taunt)
Luigi (Double Fireball and Luigi Kick)
Mario (Metal Cap and Giant Mario*)
Toon Link (Wind Waker and Sword Flurry*)

* Very situational, but even "rarely useful" is still useful.

If it had NO effect on it, and could cancel into itself then it would be at least CONSIDERED but thats not how the thread went about it. He doesn't need a buff, if he wants a better taunt easter egg then MAYBE we can consider making it cancel into itself like sonic.

Being able to cancel Falcon's Side Taunt into anything, or just a grab, jab, shield, etc. would be better than leaving it as-is.

Only being able to cancel it into itself would not help at all... Besides, Sonic can cancel his taunts into anything, not just the taunts themselves, IIRC.

BUT that's really sonics thing, and i'd rather not do that personally.

Kirby can cancel his taunts too.

Anywho, here's a quote from the other thread where i explained why he didn't need a buff and responded to Bent 00 saying he "missed Thunda's rules on taunts":

The problem with this thinking bent, is that falcon already has a super taunt. i.e a taunt that is useful. Not all characters are destined to get one. Furthermore, falcon would then have 2 taunts that were useful. Another thing, the rules about taunts haven't changed. Generally, taunts are only made to be useful if there is a large risk involved, or if it isn't practical enough in battle to get a large reward from it. I.E falcons side taunt, its a cool nifty easter egg, but it's not practical enough to be used in battle. and thats the way it was designed. Furthermore, we don't want to make Falcon less interesting to play. By downplaying his weaknesses and making his MU's better overall when he's already solid, we take alot of strategy out of the counterplays that are necessary in those situations. Which is generally a bad idea.

I responded to that post already.

The thread was locked because it became a cat fight, where things became personal and people were even REPORTING each others posts. It became detrimental to the health of the discussion and simply locking it and having someone make a new one was a simple solution.

It's sad how one person can derail a topic just by being rude. I was hoping someone would just delete the offensive post, rather than lock the whole topic.

It had nothing to do with coding him. Discussion on the matter is always welcome, however let us please take it to the new thread mmkay? not trying to be a Butt with this whole thing.

Done. Any further discussion of Falcon's taunts goes here.

Ok then, so that matter is resolved if not unsatisfactory to some.

I don't think the topic is completely off-limits yet, as long as we discuss it in the right thread, without flaming each other.

I never really thought falcon needed anything either, I just don't see a logical reason to not to do something so harmless. I'm sure some people would have appreciated it. Bent has a point when he says the taunt is now come on punch me instead of come on get your ass over here, I'll kill you.

For the record, it makes NO logical sense to taunt a dead foe. Taunts are most satisfactory and fun when your opponent is STILL alive and trying to kill you. I don't whose idea it was to think that a taunt is just a pose you do when everyone is dead, but that person is a moron. Stop calling them taunts of you are going to think like that. Taunts are MEANT for the taunter to mess around, be silly, and (slightly) agitate a foe. Taunts that don't do this aren't taunts or worth doing. Some taunts I notice are sorta just in game victory poses and others literaly do nothing. Falcons come on taunt is a taunt but isn't being treated like one entirely.

THANK YOU. It's nice to finally read something supportive after so long!

Does anyone REALLY think that using the force is still funny? The only way I would love this if it didn't effect fighters and it allowed Falcon to call to him all items in front of him, cancelling into picking up an item. That would be awesome and hilarious if he flung a bomb or a barrel into his face.

I thought the "Falcon Force" had potential, but it's never going to be buffed enough to be useful, so I'd rather see it removed. That effect on items would have been funny!

See my two modified, balanced suggestions for changes to Falcon's Side Taunt and Up Taunt here.

I guess I need to make a thread for taunts then.

Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[justadood]

i think metaknight's up throw could be nerfed a little... or maybe only usable after a certain amount of damage, but be a little stronger (on both players)