Ivysaur Feedback

[Turk Injaydii]

Can Ivy's grab get some love in 4.0? It's very slow. To the point that shield grabbing while a character is trying to pressure you isn't an option. If you try to grab, they'll always hit you before grab connection. Additionally, it doesn't go very far. So its not a good option in the neutral. Usually, tether grabs that are that slow cover a long range to compensate.

Next, could Ivy jab twice before going into the infinite jab? It would greatly help her neutral game. Mixing up 1 jab and 2 jab to mind game is a great option with any character.

If others have ideas, please discuss below. Ivy seems like she's lacking a lot compared to other characters in Minus. Poor jab; poor grab; very slow up smash; dair looks HUGE, but nothing significant happens to the opponent if they are hit by the outer parts of the mist (thought one of her gimmicks was the mists doing the same things as powder moves from the Pokemon series); neutral b is only useful as a recovery option; razor leaf is mediocre as a slow, weak projectile with a lot of cool down (especially by Minus standards, look at Samus and Link's potent projectiles)

Leaf Storm also kinda stinks...it makes Ivy helpless, doesn't KO that well, and just looks awkward. Solarbeam would be so much more fitting.

Ivy needs some love, guys. You've got a good start. Neutral b as a recovery is funny, and the powder gimmick has potential if done well and is extra awesome for referencing the Pokemon games. But Ivy is still in need of adjusting if she's going to keep up with the strong cast of Minus.

Thor and BC ...here are my thoughts on Ivysaur. I welcome your discussion.

 

[Kien]

There's a reason that I nerfed Ivysaur. You don't need to know what it was, but let me tell you what it is. In testing of Ivysaur, I was pulling off 60-80% combos with ease. There's a lot that you need to learn about a character before assuming that they're not good. Ivy's neutral B works as a great anti air, an amazing combo tool which can rack up damage quickly and be comboed into. Razor leaf is nowhere near useless. The flash of light is a crit spot which has relatively high kill potential, good shield damage if I recall, and good damage overall. This makes it one of the few projectiles in the game that you don't want to block often. Given Ivy's extremely powerful up smash (killing below 80 last I checked?) you can see how breaking a shield is all it takes to turn a match around. Or using dair to put someone to sleep. Ivy's grab is slow for a reason as you found out. Two combo throws and two kill throws. Most characters with ranged grabs don't throw them out in neutral, they're used as punishes. Solarbeam would be nice, but you know how PM did that? Let's just say that Minus has restrictions on what they're willing to do. Many of Ivy's other normals are relatively good spacers, and playing it in neutral as a zoner or mid ranged fighter would be the best way to use it in my eyes.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

... Solarbeam would be nice, but you know how PM did that? Let's just say that Minus has restrictions on what they're willing to do. Many of Ivy's other normals are relatively good spacers, and playing it in neutral as a zoner or mid ranged fighter would be the best way to use it in my eyes.

As I said to BC, I'm glad to hear that I'm wrong about Ivy being bad. That being said, you've peaked my interest. What did PM do that Minus isn't willing to try (aside from the whole "we can't do that because PM did it already" crap, lol).

 

[Neville]

Also, Ivy's usmash has stun hitboxes (like ZSS's dsmash for example) and massive range. Ivy also gets combos out of razorleaf and leafstorm is basically a "use this and get a free edgeguard" move.

 

[Kien]

Well, there's basically every attack that PM has made unique, there's individualizing the Pokemon, adding certain characters, etc. Obviously there are some exceptions and occasionally there are permissions granted such as using PM's animations for TL's alternate tilt attacks. Sdoom is a nice guy and stuff.